Question about 17th century spritsail topmast

[Ilhan Gokcay]

Hello,

 

My question is about the rigging of the 17th century.

Is it wrong to say if there is a spritsail topmast then there is no staysail and jibsail. Both can not be at the same time.

Appreciate any response.

 

Ilhan

[trippwj]

That would be an accurate statement. 

[amateur]

Not sure, depends on the ship and the country I suspect....

In the paperwork of the Zeven Provincieen (1666) both stay sails and spritsail topmast are mentioned.

The Lelystad reconstruction project published plans showing them both.

http://www.bataviawerf.nl/feiten-en-cijfers-van-de-7-provincien.html

 

Jan

Edited February 21, 2013 by amateur

[Ilhan Gokcay]

Thanks for the responses.

I don't remember exactly but I think I've read somewhere that the jib sails and staysails replaced the spritmats topsails. So that they are not used at the same time. 

I do also suspect that and want to be sure.

[Ilhan Gokcay]

I'got an e-mail before the server change that there is a reply to the topic.

But apparently it has been lost. I hope that the sender will reply again. 

[amateur]

That was me and wayne, but it was just the remark that the Dutch charter is the only one explicitly stating both spritsail topsails and staysail (no jib)

 

btw Andersson (1927) states that there is a time window of about 50 years (1650-1700) in which probably ships had the option of

using both stay-sails and spritsail topsails.According to him, before 1650 no staysails were reported, after 1700 no spritsail topsails are mentioned. In the intermediate period both were mentioned (and on the same ship)

 

Jan

[dafi]

Could it be said that the staysails are just going to the sprit itself but not to the topmast as this was a rather fragile construction?

If a jib was used, can it be, that the topsail spar was taken down and replaced by a spar protruding to the front becoming later on the Jibboom?

 

Daniel

[pirozzi]

Thanks for the responses.

I don't remember exactly but I think I've read somewhere that the jib sails and staysails replaced the spritmats topsails. So that they are not used at the same time. 

I do also suspect that and want to be sure.

You are correct. Jibs and Staysails came after the Spritsail era.

 

Vince P.

[Ilhan Gokcay]

Maybe there were too few examples carrying both. Regarding also the backstays of the sprit topmast, it would be difficult to set the jib sail. 

[trippwj]

I don't think there were any that had both - Anderson was commenting on the fact that during the 50 year or so period, there were some ships with a spritsail topmast and some with a jib and stay sail.  No record of any single vessel that actually had both rigged.  It is possible that a ship orginally rigged with a sprit sail top mast could have been modified to remove the topmast and add a jib boom and the staysail, but not likely it happened much.  I think you would be very safe staying with only one or the other (Spritsail topmast or jib & stay sail).

[popeye2sea]

The Soleil Royal (1669) was rigged with a Fore Topmast Staysail as well as a Spritsail Topmast.  The Topmast stay originates at the junction of the bowsprit and the spritsail topmast.  The problem of backstays and bowlines reeved through blocks on the topmast stay fouling the stay sail was solved by having the staysail bent to a false stay seized below the stay.