UWEK Triton Build (re-post by mod)

[Matrim]

Mod Note - Some of the original Triton build logs have been saved and I will be reposting some of them up week by week. Please do not comment against them as the original authors have often moved on so will not be able to reply. If an original owner no longer wishes their log to be posted then please get in touch and the log will be removed. Also note that some of the original comments (usually attaboys but sometimes questions also do not appear

 

Some time ago I mentioned to my friend Zeljko our Triton project and he was immediately very interested in this idea of a

community built of a Vessel-section.

Although he is not a member by himself here in MSW I printed out the plans and we agreed to make this built parallel and partly together.

This was already some weeks ago. As times goes by he started earlier and me only last weekend.

My description of my section built will follow.

Here in this topic I will be able to show Zeljkos work for the Triton Section as a kind of building log, so you will be able to follow his construction works and see his way of construction methods.

The basis for the built and installation of the frames is a "Helling-construction" (Helling-jig) with a strong basis (level O).

On this basis the main lines are marked, like the location of the keel and the location of all nine frames (C to A and O to 5).


A thinner first level board (level 1) is prepared with the same lines.

This board should be installed and leveled exactly in this way, that the top of the board is on the same height like the lower edge of the Lower Deck Beams.

Fixing and exact level can be reached and adjusted with several thread-screws and nuts.



Each hole for the boards, where the screws will be installed should be drilled together in one pass, means that boards of level O, 1 and 2 (will be needed later on) should be clamped together and from the top the holes are drilled in one passage through all three boards. 

 

 

The prepared nine frames inclusive keel (shorter) and keelson (longer).

 

 

Detail  of the keel with the already installed False keel. Have a look at the rabbit.....

in my following building log I will show how the rabbit could be done with an easy and very exact way.....

 

The first frame number O installed on the keel, glued and additional fixed with a small nail through the Floor
Futtock against the keel.

On top of the photo the board level 1 is visable. 

 

 

The same frame shown from the top inside of the jig. In order to fix the ends of the frames a small drop of
glue is used between third Futtock and board level 1 and in addition fixation with a cord-line.



For the exact location it is now important that the marked lines on board level 1 are exact drawn and exactly vertical over board 0.

Because of this the above mentioned info about the drilling of the holes for the screws.

 

 

[Matrim]

Hallo Russ,

This kind of jig is very often used for complete "full size" models with the big advantage that all frames are really fixed until you finished the complete internal construction.

No movements or widening of the single frames is possible.

You are right with your interpretation of the small notches. These are the limber holes.

In some (really not all) books these holes are shown as the lowest part for collecting the water and the dewatering of the bilge via the Elm Tree pumps.

Have a look at the book from Dodds "Building the Wooden Fighting Ship" about which I made once a book review

Here it is shown:

 

And the detail in a bigger size:

 

I do not know if this limber holes where at each ship, or only on bigger ones like the Dodds-74-gunner, only at a special period. In no book in my library about english ships of war this detail is discussed or explained.

The Boudriot books about the french ships are describing this limber holes at most ships.




 

[Matrim]

Warren,

I will show the board level 2 in one of the next posts of this building log. In principle it looks like the board level 1, only with a smaller inside area, due to the fact that it will be installed in the same way at the height of the Gun Deck Beams.

Also here at this level the frames will be fixed with a drop of glue and a cord-line.

With this the frames are not moving and you have stability for the internal construction of the gun deck with beams, knees etc.


 

[Matrim]

Some more photos of the construction:

Installed frames 0, 1, 2 and 3 

 

 

All frames installed in the jig, the frames are glued to the keel with a small additional nail through the Floor Futtock.

It is important to nail through this part, if nailing on the side of the First Futtocks the glued joint between the two First Futtocks could "go open"!

 

 

The same status of construction with a view from the other side

 

 

[Matrim]

Uwe:

Yes they used metal fastenings all over a ship, but in model building the situation is entirely different. In a real ship, they did have a lot of movement in wood and metal fastenings of all types that degenerated over time. In a model, even with the best adhesives, wood still moves with changes in temperature and humidity and metal fastenings, regardless what they are, will degenerate over time to some degree, however small.

Aside from the fact that the metal fastenings needed to hold the wood together in a real ship, there was also the problem of discoloration of wood by metal as it ages. In a real ship this is not important but in a model it could be. With metal fastenings, there is always some chance of this, no matter how small it may be. With wood or bamboo fastenings, there is no chance.

But most important to me, wood fastenings will become a part of what they are holding together whereas a metal fastening will always be a foreign object in two pieces of wood.

Use what you wish, but keep in mind what I am saying.

Russ

[Matrim]

  Some photos of the assembled keelson

Longitudinal view of the keelson 

 

 

and the keelson from the top view you can see the iron nails with round head, which shall represent the iron bolts for connection of the keelson to the keel of the real ship.

These nails have no structural function for the model!


 

[Matrim]

The two installed Limberstrakes, prepared with the longitudinal notch cut with the circular saw.

The two (until now missing) Limberboards will be installed later on. 

 

 

Two Installed Footwaling next to Limberstrakes 

 

 

Thefirst three "normal" ceiling boards, one of the ceilings is still missing.

 

 

The first levels of the Thickstuff installed 

 

 

[Matrim]

Hallo Jürgen,

this Section model built is a real interesting work and really a very good experience to start with scratch-building....

Thanks a lot to Russ that he made this possible for us!

And the full model will be than a real challenge for us newbies! 

[Matrim]

The ceilings and the Thickstuff, as well as the Lower Deck Clamps are installed on both sides.

The ceiling boards are installed with additional nails (without head) which should represent the iron bolts.

Due to the flash of the camera the nails are partly reflecting the flash-light and look bigger than in reality.

On top of the Keelson four rectangle openings (notch) were prepared for the later installation of the Hold Pillars

 

 

The four prepared Hold Pillars ready for installation.

The lower ends are cut with the circular saw (four times turning the Pillars) also with a rectangular square and will fit into the
prepared notches at the Keelson 

 

 

The four installed Hold Pillars on top of the Keelson waiting for the Deckbeams

 

 

[Matrim]

There are the first photos showing the works on the lower deck construction.

The first Photo is showing the Lower Deck Beam on axis C installed, with the prepared notches for the Carlings.

The notches were made after the beams were bended to the final bow.

This is made due to the fact that the width of the notch could get bigger with the bending. 

 

 

The  Lower Deck Beams on axis A and 1 installed including the necessary notches for the carlings.

At this photo only dry fitted.

 

 

[Matrim]

The last missing Lower Deck Beam installed and starting with the knees 

 

 

Knees in detail from the top 

 

 

The hanging knees in detail

 

 

The hanging knees visible from the other side

 

 

[Matrim]

Sorry Christian,

I could not make the photos of the jig until now, this will follow in short time nevertheless the next log-photos (which were done already before) of the finished installed Beam Arms including the finished knees of beams axis 1, A and C 

 

 

and the same construction phase from the top view 

 

[Matrim]

Uwe:

Do not forget to add that extra deck beam that will fit into the aft pair of beam arms. We did not get this into the original plans, but we talked about it with regard to Don's build of his cross section. Check out Don's build pics and you will see what I mean. He added the extra beam back there on both decks and it looks fine.

This won't be an issue with the complete build. Its just that on this cross section, we had to move a few things around in order to get everything to fit within the cross section model. That left us with a section of deck hanging back there with no beam under it. Just add an extra ledge that will be morticed into the beam arms. The ledge should line up with the aft end of the section. You can also put another pillar under that ledge if you like to stifen the structure. the same will need to be done on the gun deck as well.

Russ

[Matrim]

I made some more photos of the construction status with all Lower deck beams and installed Knees

Have a look:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Matrim]

And Some more details of the connections of beams and knees

 

 

 

 

 

[Matrim]

Hallo Russ,

it was planned in this way....after the beam arms are installed and fixed, the form of the prepared ledges (between Axis 4 and 5) is used for exact marking of the form and location of the mortices, which has to be cut afterwards.

At the Triton section model the access to the installed Beam arms is very good, so a later cut out of the mortices is possible without big disadvantages.

With the next photos I will be able to show the result.

Off course for the normal Beams the mortices should be made before the final installation in the section.


 

[Matrim]

The first mortices / notches in the Lodging knees were made.

 

Here visible the knee between deck beam axis A and C 

 

 

A little bit wider view of the same location inclusive the Carlings, also partly prepared with the necessary mortices for the Ledges.

The Carlings are here not glued....dry fit for the last check with the prepared ledges 

 

 

The first area finished with Carlings and Ledges, the rest of the Carlings prepared and dry fitted. 

 

[Matrim]

Some further Carlings and Ledges of the Lower Deck are installed, finished between axis C and A as well es between axis A and 1.

The three Carlings between beam axis 1 and the beam or beamarms axis 4 are only for dry fit and the mortices in these carlings have to be still made. 

 

 

The same construction phase in the views from "down under" 

 

 

 

 

 

[Matrim]

The small Carling and the four Ledges between axis 4 and axis 5 are installed.

(This time without any drop of blood )

The small Carling exactly in the middle of the ship-section is located on axis 5 on an additional pillar

 

Sheet Bitt in the Deck Beam at axis 4 are prepared.

 

 

[Matrim]

The short Carlings between the Beam arms and the Beam at axis 4 in addition with the Ledges in this area are installed.

Here in the top-view

 

and more in detail 

 

 

and the same status with view the other side. Here you can see also the additional pillar at axis 5 under the small Carling in the middle of the vessel

 

 

 

[Matrim]

Deck planking of the Lower deck installed.

Only one half will be planked so the construction with the deck beams, beam arms, carlings and ledges will be visible.

 

The construction of the frames is in addition temporary stiffened with two profiles at the outside end of the frames.

 

 

The Lower Deck Spirketting and the Gun Deck Clamps installed

 

 

 

[Matrim]

Hallo Roberth,

It is no varnish......it is the original timber with a fine cover of a kind of fine mechanics oil with low viscosity.

This oil is also like the Danish oil penetrating completely into the wood after some minutes and no oil rests is keeping on the surface of the timber.

For example I had bad experience with linseed-oil in this regard which is partly not penetrating completely if the wood has a high density.

But next time me and also Zeljko will try the Danish-oil which was mentioned a short time ago in an other thread.


 

[Matrim]

Shadow,

the ladder will hang only on one side "in the  air", you are completely correct, but the structure is so interesting,

so it should be visible in my point of view. Maybe some extra short planks at the area of the ladder could be the solution.


 

[Matrim]

Russ,

"One fastening per plank per beam"

After a longer time of checking this in the different pulications I have,I received a suggestion, which is maybe different to your
opinion.

You are right, that in all important books (like Goodwin and Longridge) this "one fastening per plank per beam"

is shown in sketches and drawings showing the Four or Three shift system, f.e. Page 58 of Goodwin.

 

 

In the following text Goodwin is describing more in detail the different thicknesses of the planks, especially for the Gundecks, which has to take over oof course much higher forces.

If you went through the book you can find several other sketches (not related to planking),but showing two fastenings per plank per beam, like on page 154 about "Types of windlass". 

 

 

So also Goodwin is showing both possibilities!

Than I had a look at the different available photos of still existing ships:

HMS Victory Main Gundeck (photo made by Jim and shown in Gallery)

The Gundeck-planking is still the original planking and not changed by "wrong" restauration like at other ships we know.

 

 

 

In the Longridge "Anatomy of Nelson´s Ships" we can find this photo at page 116 showing the ward room at middle deck,so not only the Gun deck of the Vic had two fastenings per plank per beam.

 

This two fastenings per plank per beam you could also find partly on deck photos of the HMS Unicorn and also the HMS
Trincomalee

(ok, these ships are younger!)

So I have the feeling that the use of two or one fastenings depends mainly at the shipwright who built the ship.In my publications the question is not answered.

 

 

[Matrim]

After this "short" excursion about treenails on deck-planks back to the Section Model.

Today only a short post showing the installed Limber Boards laying in the notch prepared in the Limber Strakes

 

 

[Matrim]

The first inside works for the Gundeck!

The Gun Deck Stanchion should sit on the Lower Deck Beam and not on top of the Deck-planks,so the two planks in the middle should get slot / recess for the stanchion.

On this photo the chamber is visible very good, check it on the drawing from Russ,

the chamber of the Gun-Deck-Beams is bigger than this from the Lower-Deck-Beams.

Here the Beam on axis C

 

 

The same view in comparison with the Lower Deck

 

 

In background visible the Beam on axis A with the already prepared recesses for the Carlings 

 

 

Bot Beams in the top view

 

 

[Matrim]

Hallo Jerzy,

like Russ mentioned already we take your time, and when ever you have time to start....do it.....a lot of fun and exercise.

And the drawings will stay for free download whenever youdecide to start.

Some more works are done on the Section with the installation of the other missing beams of axis 1 and 4,inclusive the hanging and laying knees

 

 

 

And the installed beam arms

 

 

 

[Matrim]

The first installed Carlings and Ledges between axis A and C 

 

 

 

and the finished ones between the first beams

 

 

[Matrim]

Some more photos of the progress of Carlings and Ledges......

I know it is a little bit boring to see more or less the same photos with only small progress,but I decided in the beginning to make here a detailed log!

therefore I ask you to be a little bit more patient. the interesting posts with the deck-equipment, cannons and coppering of the hull will come (sooner or later)

 

 

 

Only the carlings between the Beam arms and between axis 4 and 5 are missing

 

 

The installation of the last Carlings and Ledges between the beam arms

 

 

 

From this views to the top the complete structure of the beam, carlings, ledges and knees is visible 

 

 

 

[Matrim]

The complete Section model at this stage of construction

 

 

Top view....the structure of the Gundeck is not oiled until now 

 

 

The very last Carling and ledges between axis 4 and 5 are installed