Setting a Topsail Flying on a topsail schooner-Very technical stuff here

[roach101761]

I am building an 1815, 80 ton US revenue cutter.  The Doughty Large plan in Chapelle's book.  It is actually the AL kit of Dallas.  I am to the point where I must begin planning the rigging.  There are obvious errors in the AL plans. As the vessel has no ratlines(this is correct by the way),  I determined long ago that the Topsail was bent to the spar on deck and then hoisted flying.  My understanding of this term is that with the use of the halliard/halyard the the topsail yard with the sail bent to it is then hauled up to the peak of the topmast.  Remember that there is a sheave up there running through the top mast in order to hoist the yard and sail.This also means that there are no stirrups on the topsail yard.   In larger Square rigged ships, Sky and moon sails would be set in a similar fashion, although not from the deck, but most likely from the tops.  Because it is set flying, no one will go up to furl the sail.  If not needed it would be lowered to the deck. Therefor no need for the bunt lines,leech lines or reef points.   MY PROBLEM IS HOW WOULD THE SHEET LINES and BRACES BE DEALT WITH?

 

I have looked at and reviewed the following plan sets while searching for a solution.

 

AL Dallas-  The kit does not have sails and no rigging plan for sails is included.

 

Model Shipways, Pride of Baltimore II--This is a double topsail schooner and a much larger vessel than the Dallas Kit. It has Ratlines.  However the top gallant yard can be a fill in for the practice.  Just so happens that the top gallant spar is lowered to the level of the cross trees, so the yardr and sail can be handled from that point.

 

Corel USS Ranger Kit plans--No Revenue cutter Ranger existed in  1823 and this kit is actually based on the mid size William Doughty plan(56 tons) of 1815 vintage.  This kit comes with sails but has obvious errors.  The sheet lines are just tied off to the yard below. There are no ratlines on this kit either, but yet the topsail has reef points.  The yard has no stirrups.  For this vessel size and the DALLAS size, I think that he sail is relatively small, therefore no need for reef points.  It is simply set or not set.

 

The original Pride--  Also a double topsail schooner but smaller than Pride II.  I have no plans but photos of the ship in the Pride of Baltimore book by Gillmer show a relatively small topsail sheeted to the main square sail yard below it. The photo shows no detail.

 

Various line drawings in many books just show that the sail is sheeted to the yard below it.

 

Halifax(1760s) 83 tons by Hahn--the one sheet on the rigging is disappointing.  It does not provide the detail necessary.

 

Model Shipways Sultana(1760s) 52 tons--I think the answer lies here but I am not sure.  The topsail yard has a halliard to lift it in place and actually has a down haul to help control it on its way down, but the sheet lines are unclear.  Also it has ratlines but no stirrups on the yard.  Also when the Brits took Halifax and Sultana into service the re rigging is a bit beefy.

 

Most of the sheet lines in plans for ships seem  to run through sheaves set in the spar below it.  See Cutter Alert.   In my case it would be the Main Square Sail Yard.  This yard is present on all of the plans listed above and the Main Square Sail would only be used in light winds.  See several Chapelle drawings in the The History of American Sailing Ships.  The Square Sail Yard would also be lowered to the deck to have the sail bent to the yard and the sail was spread with a square sail boom.  Some of the Chapelle drawings show this.   However the Top Sail was more routinely used as the the sail provided more control of the vessel, especially in a constricted seaway.

 

Petersson's Period fore and aft craft show the sheets of the fore top gallant run through sheaves on the yard below. The vessel depicted is also a larger double topsail schooner.

 

Back to Sultana--I have reviewed Chuck Passaro's practicum on building the Model Shipways kit.  He states that the topsail sheet is run through a block attached to the main and fore yards.

 

I have not seen the plans to Lively, nor at this time do I have access to them.

 

 

IF THE TOPSAIL IS SET FLYING THIS MEANS THE FOLLOWING---

 

The topsail sheets(2) and the topsail yard braces(2)--a total of 4 lines, 2 starboard and 2 port,  will follow the yard all the way down to the deck for the sail to be bent or unbent.  AND  what happens to the topsail sheets when the topsail is unbent from the yard? Are they belayed somewhere on deck waiting for use still rove through the blocks on the fore yard?

 

I am trying to determine if my conclusion is correct.

 

Phil Roach

Edited February 16, 2015 by roach101761

[Modeler12]

I am building an 1815, 80 ton US revenue cutter.  The Doughty Large plan in Chapelle's book.  It is actually the AL kit of Dallas.  I am to the point where I must begin planning the rigging.  There are obvious errors in the AL plans. As the vessel has no ratlines(this is correct by the way),  I determined long ago that the Topsail was bent to the spar on deck and then hoisted flying.  My understanding of this term is that with the use of the halliard/halyard the the topsail yard with the sail bent to it is then hauled up to the peak of the topmast.  Remember that there is a sheave up there running through the top mast in order to hoist the yard and sail.This also means that there are no stirrups on the topsail yard.   In larger Square rigged ships, Sky and moon sails would be set in a similar fashion, although not from the deck, but most likely from the tops.  Because it is set flying, no one will go up to furl the sail.  If not needed it would be lowered to the deck. Therefor no need for the bunt lines,leech lines or reef points.   MY PROBLEM IS HOW WOULD THE SHEET LINES and BRACES BE DEALT WITH?

 

Phil Roach

One step at a time.

I am not familiar with what you describe, but at least to the best of my knowledge, square sail sheets (such as topsails) are usually fed down to the spar below it. They go through a sheave in that spar and then towards the mast, before they go down to the deck. In you case that can be done before the topsail and spar is raised. Braces could be handled the same way. The problem might be that all of a sudden the wind catches the sail, so the sheets and braces better be ready for that. But that is no different than with other sails.

Does that make sense? Or I am not with it?

 

BTW if there are no ratlines, would a boatsman chair help? There is always a way to get up there.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Modeler12

[popeye2sea]

If the sail was set flying, that by definition meant it had no lifts or braces.  The clew of the sail could just be lashed to the yardarms below, so no need for a sheet either.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I don't have any experience with flying square topsails. But I imagine there are two choices: Have the sheets gasket coiled and they stick with the sail as you pull the yard and sail up with a single halyard from the deck and when its aloft crew go up and cast off the gasket coils and reave the sheets from up there. No braces at all.

OR, the sail and its yard are on deck ready to fly aloft, and the sheets are already rove aloft and reach all the way down to the sail laying on the deck. As the halyard hauls the sail and its yard aloft, the sheets are also taken up on. This seams far fetched though. since its an awful lot of line. But it has the advantage of requiring nobody aloft to set the sail, it would be done entirely from the deck. But the crew would not be unable or unwilling to go up and do the work so its, like I say, far fetched.

[Jim Lad]

Phil,

 

Having had a close look at both Steel and Lever, I can offer the following advice for the way flying square ails were set in British ships.

 

The flying yards were usually rigged without braces or lifts, but occasionally had braces (as in revenue cutters).  If braces were fitted, then they were rigged to the yard and sent up with it.

 

The halliard was rigged through a sheave in the mast and the sail secured to the yard with lengths of sennit. It was sent aloft from the deck by simply heaving it up with the halliard, which was stoppered to one end of the yard so that it went up vertically.  When the yard was aloft a boy sent aloft for the purpose would cut the stopper on the halliard and secure the clues of the sail by lashing them to the ends of the yard below, and the flying yard would then be hoisted right up. 

 

I hope this is helpful.  If unclear, please let me know and I'll see if I can make my description a little better.

 

John

[JerseyCity Frankie]

In this video of the Surprise replica, you can see crew swaying aloft the Royal yard on a halyard at around the 2:10 minute-mark. The quality isn't too good and the angle is poor. If you watched the entire video you can just barely make out the same operation on the Fore at an earlier point in the film. 

 

 

[roach101761]

The video was not so bad.   They obviously set that royal flying.  It seems apparent that they hoisted it from the deck.  I wonder how they manage the lines.  I think the choice I am leaning toward is to set up the rigging so the square sail yard and the topsail yard both come down and go up together.  On this small schooner the squaresail yard travels on a horse, and if the square sail is set on it, it is done on the deck and the square sail boom attached also.  It does not seem so far fetched that the square sail yard comes down to bend the topsail to  the topsail yard and hoist both back up, especially since the topsail is sheeted to the square sail yard.  Will keep looking for more information.  Thanks Frank.

 

Phil

[Tallshiptragic]

Sorry but, never experienced anything to do with a flying topsail. Flying jobs and stay sails yes, but not a square. The cutter would have rat lines up to the futtocks.

 

Looking at the scale, you could furl the topsail from the futtocks without the need for foot ropes on the yard. On duyfken - similar to halve maen if your in the states - we had to fuel the topsails from the futtocks.