How to harden scale rope

[Geoff Matson]

It seems like a lot us are into rope making now with the Byrnes ropewalk. I would be interested to see how you all handle hardening the rope to keep it from untwisting. Looking forward to you replys

[amateur]

I don't have a byrnes, I did some ropelaying on a basic lego-ropewalk.

When doing it the right way, my rope does not untwist.

Untwisting rope (at least in my case) points at the fact that

I disobey the rules of making lefthand twisted rope using righthanded thread and vicve-versa.

 

Jan

[Geoff Matson]

Thanks Jan

 

I know somewhere I heard of stretching the rope and hanging it with weights to harden the rope. Does it ring a bell

[Ulises Victoria]

Geoff. Jim says that you need to "harden" the rope you made in the machine, IF you want to use it again to make thicker rope on the machine.

When I did this the first time, I forgot that, and had an excellent result nevertheless... now... hardening will not  have any effect on the "untwisting" of the rope AFAIK. This to me sounds more like you made a LH rope using LH threads. I have had no problem with untwisting so far.

When you cut the rope, the ends tend to unravel a bit. To prevent this, I tie 2 adjacent simple knots and cut in the middle of them.

The other option, like when the knot will not fit through a hole, is to dip the end in thin CA, and cut in an angle.

Hope this helps.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Ulises Victoria

[druxey]

Properly laid line, hardened, should not unravel when cut. The opposing torque in the strands/threads/rope should cancel each other out and provide a 'balanced' line.

[MSzwarc]

I use a ropewalk I made from an old Norelco razor head, and I've never had a problem with the rope I've made untwisting. Rather than using a traveling  "top" to keep the strands separate until they twist together, my ropewalk has the razor head at one end, where the three tie points spin independently, and a disk at the other end powered by a drill, where the three tie points spin around each other. The rope actually begins to twist together at the midpoint of the strand, and forms out towards each end. To make a right-twisted rope, I tie a piece of thread between each of the three sets of tie points. It doesn't matter whether the thread is right- or left-hand twist, because the first step is to twist the threads to the left using the razor head. If the threads are left twist to begin with, this tensions them. If they are right twist to begin with, this step untwists them, and then twists them to the left, and then tensions them. I put a good deal of tension in the threads before I twist them together in the opposite direction using the drill. This way, the rope is actually formed as the tension is released in the individual strands, causing them to twist around each other. In other words, the rope is not formed simply by twisting the three strands together, but rather by pre-tensioning the individual strands, and then allowing them to essentially twist themselves together by releasing the tension in a controlled fashion. The rope thus formed needs no additional hardening.

[Geoff Matson]

Thanks to all for your answers. If I get this right I make my first rope, harden it. Then to make bigger rope I take the hardened rope and twist it the opposite way. Ok then how do you harden the rope the first time? I have heard of stretching it with wieghts for a period of time.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Geoff Matson

[druxey]

It's better not to harden line (rope) if you are then going to spin it up into cable.

[Meredith]

I have been tying a s-hook both ends of the rope - hand one end from a rack attached to the ceiling and then hooking the bottom s- hook through a rubber band around a weight of any sort - I have used all sorts of stuff.

 

But in my recent clean up I came across my ingot/weights for my scuba dive belt - they are over kill for weight - but as they are a nice oblong shape - I just put a rubberband around them and slip the s-hook through. They have not proved too heavy (eg - no breaks in the ropes).

 

For longer ropes - I do the same - but hang both ends with s-hooks through the rack at the ceiling and slip a s-hook on the half way mark near the floor and add the weight there.

 

Its not ideal and convenient yet - but I will work on it so its easy and I dont have to set anything up to do it. If its too much fuss and I only have a few minutes spare - I wont make a rope - but if its all ready to go - I can just make a rope at a whim in the odd few minutes between other tasks/responsibilities.

 

So other experienced rope makers - tell me... I know I read it somewhere... that if when you take your newly formed rope off the rope walk and it wants to twist back on its self and make a doubled up rope - does this mean you havent made it right? Either too tight or twisted the wrong way?

Edited March 6, 2013 by Meredith

[Larry Van Es]

If you merely grab an end of the rope in one hand and about 8 inchs over with the other and pull,  you can feel the rope stretch. Do this repeatedly to the other end. Repeat until the rope no longer stretches. The rope is then hardened.

[wefalck]

Not sure what is meant by 'hardening' ...

 

I am using the 'topless' method as described by Frölich on my home-made ropewalk. This first twist the yarns that then are laid/lay themselve into the opposite direction. Whether the resulting rope has a pronounced tendency to unravel or not seem to depend on the type of starting material. When I use cotton or linen, the friction between the yarns seems to keep it together. The fibres of fly-tying yarns, on the other hand, seem to be rather smooth and springy so that unsecured ends spring open quickly.

 

wefalck

[dgbot]

I believe hardening is the act of setting the fibers against each other so the rop does not unravel.  I have seen this done by hanging the rope with weights for a period of time and over twisting it to lock the fibers.

David B

Edited March 6, 2013 by dgbot

[wefalck]

I seem to be overtwisting my yarns (it is very difficult to see on those fly-tying yarns I am using currently). If I simply cut loose the 'rope' from the ropewalk, it would curl up in a mess of kinks. So, I cut loose one end, secure it with a knot and then let it un-twist in a controlled fashion while keeping some tension on it. I believe that the man-made fibres from which these fly-tying yarns are made do not stretch a lot compared to natural fibres, such as cotton or linen. So there is little chance of 'hardening' it.

 

wefalck

[Geoff Matson]

Wow 

 

Thanks for all the information. I think I will try the stretching metnods with some weights. Thanks again for all your replys.

[von stetina]

I give mine a pull before taking it out of my homemade machine that looks like gypsies stopped by to make it for me. Works great though! I can feel it reach it's length and stop. My machine works best with a bobbin.

 

I then hang it with a 1/2 inch nut on the end, or whatevers handy untill I need it. I give it a little pull again before I put it on. I'm having good results. My shop varies a lot in temp and humidity as it's wood heated and I see no difference in tension.

 

Von Stetina