Cap'n Rat Fink

Just found this thread. Very interesting projects(barges). They will make nice kits or scratch builds if you eventually offer the plans alone.

Just found this thread. Very interesting projects(barges). They will make nice kits or scratch builds if you eventually offer the plans alone.

Yes....but not as easy as just clicking a button.  Which most would assume.   After resizing the templates in the drafting software  (the easy part)....the laser settings will then have to be adjusted to reflect the proper speed and power settings for the smaller thickness in wood.   Depending on the parts,  they also may need some tweaking to adjust for the larger kerf size in relation to the smaller part size (ie the carved decorations).  Plus the five or six more elaborate carvings are being done as resin castings.  I cant expect folks to scratch carve those so masters will need to be made for those.   So there are plenty of hours of work needed to do it correctly for the best results.  But once its done the first time,   its done and all parts can easily be run as quickly as the 1/2" scale versions.  But its still weeks of work.
 
After all that there are other considerations.  This design concept works well for 1/2" scale.   BUT
 
Lets consider that the frames are 1/16" thick at this scale.  Reducing them to 1/4" scale means using 1/32" thick stock.  Or at a minimum,  going with 3/64" for strength.  I think using 1/32" thick frames for this design construction method would not work as the frames would be much to fragile.  So once you start altering those thicknesses...it means more alterations for the parts templates and it just snowballs from there.  To simply reduce everything by 50% without thinking it through would be a disaster.
 
I know some other folks think its easily done and have talked about it in other threads.  In my opinion its not as simple and a bit fantasy actually.  Depending on the subject of course.  Decisions would need to be made that may reduce its historical accuracy for MFG purposes or depending on the scale,  a entirely different construction concept might be a better way to go.    Lots to consider.   I hate to be the fantasy killer to all those folks discussing the possibilities of kit production in that other topic.   But its a little naive in my opinion.  For most subjects anyway.

No, that is project number two.....both are currently underway.....the Syren Factory is at full capacity!!!!
 
That is being worked on by Dan Pariser and will take this philosophy to the next level.....
 
You will lapstrake plank the entire hull for a Thames river skiff..1880...all planks are laser cut and pre-spiled....with etched reference lines and instruction.
 
You get the plug...actually laser cut parts....then you plank it like you would with a plug and remove the shell..then insert the frames inside afterwards.   Then there are all the little details.   So that project takes the learning experience even further.   Both are being worked on right now.  Its different than the barge as that kit has removable centers that become the frames...a slightly different concept.  But its all to teach a differnt method of clinker planking with hopefully very thorough instructions and lessons for doing it.  The model shown is Dan's and it is also made from Cherry and boxwood.  They actually make the real things out of cherry and still use these skiffs today.  
 
Dan will be starting a build log of this model as well once it gets further along.

Mike
 
 
I understand what you are saying....but rest assured ... this is most certainly an advanced kit.   Although the parts are all laser cut and the jigs and design concept will alleviate much trouble....the builder will need to proceed very slowly and with much care.  To explain a bit about my philosophy for kits.
 
- My goal is to design kits that wont look like kits when they are built.  The quality of the wood and the parts and the historical accuracy.  No ply for fittings...no metal castings....no skimping on the final visual product. To design them in such a way that folks can build them with the same few tools they would use to build any other kit straight of of the box.  Yet when its done, and placed right beside a scratch version of the same subject...most wouldnt be able to tell the difference.   The design I hope will inspire others to use the same concepts after finishing it to slowly cross over to scratch building.  Or adapt the concepts for other kits that are lacking.
 
-  For example...first I wanted to introduce a model that would serve as an introduction to clinker planking.  Not the whole hull...but just a few planks.  So builders might not be nervous about it.  It will  literally be a step by step intro lesson on clinker planking...how to bevel...what to bevel etc.  See below for the one plank
 

 
- second...this model will also serve as an intro to carving.  Yes there will be three small resin castings, but the majority of the carved scroll  work you see on the sides of the hull and transom will be carved by the builder.  These arent complex figureheads or difficult subjects to scare folks who never tried it.   Or never used boxwood.  You will get the piece laser cut from boxwood flat and ordinary... and you will learn some simple techniques to get started carving...with a few extra pieces just in case of a mishap.
 

 
How to secure the piece for carving,  how to use a stop cut,  how to shave and carve with simple tools....how to undercut areas etc.  Step by step.  Nothing to fancy and elaborate...no expensive tools...just giving it a try with a little help.  At least the way I have always done it...I am sure that others will have a better way but this will show how I do it.  These are the two main features that are the focus for me on this project as well as creating a way to frame the boat properly with floors and futtocks like the contemporary model.  And NO...the carvings wont be that small.  It fits on a dime because I was just testing my laser cutter to see how hard I could push it....how small can laser cut something intricate and still capture some detail.   That is pretty dang small.   The real thing is about six times larger.
 
- So for me...designing this kit was a way to introduce a few things that are lacking with most kits....mainly they all look like kits unless you do some serious bashing with no guidance to go with it.  Why not start out with great materials....and guide the builders through it as if it was stepping stone to scratch building.  
 
Having said that...
 
The jigs and laser cut parts I provide are something I would normally make for myself if  I were building this from scratch...by giving them to a builder who might not have the tools or experience to create them,  they will at least get a chance to see a pre-spiled plank so they can understand and can visualize why using a straight strip isnt going to work.  They will see the spiled shape and think....this is nuts.....then after they place it on the hull without any difficulty, hopefully a light bulb will go off.   Then MAYBE they can apply what they have learned and experienced with this kit on the many other kits they build...or scratch projects.  Its hard to explain but I hope it makes sense.   
 
It wont be a beginner kit.  It will be an advanced kit FOR intermediate builders looking to try something they havent done before.  Now I keep showing the same image of the same contemporary model.  It wont look exactly like this one...but its close.   It will actually look a lot more like the one pictured below except for the transom carving.  I am referring to the colors and the lack of carving inside....just bare panels.  This is remember just an intro to carving.  Note how the planks are fastened....not treenailed....they are nailed.  Nailed to the plank beneath it.  Just something new to learn and I am learning right along with it.  And yes it will be a challenge.
 

 
 
 
 
 
Chuck

Thank you guys.
 
Yes an intermediate builder can do this.  Those are the folks this project is directed towards.  As far as making the kit in parts.....I am torn.  It will either be a complete kit....OR
 
A complete kit sold in three installments.  
 
I am trying to work all that out as the prototype gets underway.  I am waiting on planking material as we speak.   Once it arrives it will get into high gear.
 
Chuck

Just wanted to give all of you a more detailed look at what the new Queen Anne Style Royal Barge project will look like.  You are looking at the preliminary draft for the plans.  A PDF is below for a more detailed look.  I am not worried about theft because there are no laser cut parts or templates shown on this sheet.  I removed those.   As the project and prototype gets built,  more details will be added to aid the builder.  Including those parts which were removed as theft prevention. This is why it is so important to have someone else build the project before its released.  They will give me feedback on what additional views and parts would be helpful to include on the plan sheets.  And when its completed they should be quite detailed....even though I think what is shown is probably already detailed enough for most folks.
 
As you can see. This sheet includes many views of the model at various stages of its construction so those elements can be more easily seen.  This includes a planking expansion on the bottom of the sheet.
 
With the plans fully developed all that is left to do is build the prototypes....two of them.  Make adjustments...Update and embellish the plans where needed...write the instructions.....and then start on packaging and production.  This will include making all laser cut parts,  cast decorations...and wood decorations.   
 
The model will be nearly 19" long and 3 1/2" wide at 1/2" scale.  It will very closely resemble the contemporary model pictured.
 
Let me know if you have any questions.
 

 
Chuck
 

queenannebargeplanmsw.pdf

Thanks for the likes and the comments.  
 
Full disclosure time.   The results this time around were not good, but have provided a learning experience.   I found, I can produce the tubs, the rails, the roof and assemble them.  A couple of errors reared their ugly heads and so it's back to the drawing board.   I think I just need to remake the "tubs' and get the error angle and size right.
 
First pic... doesn't look too bad.  I picked a black stain for two reasons.   On a test, I wasn't getting the railing sticking to either flat acrylic or flat enamel paint.  The second is that the contrast is better.  I used the mill to hollow out the inside of the tub, something I'd not done before so definitely learned something.  
 

 
Here's where the failure hit... the tub is too big and thus the railing goes too far astern and secondly, note the rollup at each of the railing at the roof join.  I didn't get the angle on the tub right,  The railing needs to lean in more toward the hull.
 

 
Rework, re-do time has started...   I hope someone else can learn from my screw-ups.  

After making the decision, I leapt into the fray once more.     I've drawn and cut the rails out of Euro Boxwood (they still need some more cleaning up after seeing the macro photo...  In real life at wide open Ferrari speed, they look pretty good.
 
The plan is to finish shaping the roof where the rail goes, hollow it out to the "bathtub" look on the rail side and bottom.  I'm unsure if I can get a bit in there to leave the back against the hull...  I'll then probably dye it black.  The rails will be soaked, heated (or steamed if the Admiral gives permission) and bent to the "tub".    I hope to have this done in a couple of days as I'm really anxious to start working on the stern carvings.
 
Sorry about the photo.. 
 

I am the last guy in the world to challenge Gerard Delacroix or Gaetan Bordeleau, but I believe the Belle Poule is not quite appropriate in this specific instance.
 
A major repair/rebuild would have had to happen at least a decade and a half after launch. That takes her to ~1770, long after Caffieri's death and during Lubet's heavy handed minimalism. 1770 would put her right at the end of the first 12-pdr build program and just a few years ahead of the 1775 monster build program.
 
Given the chaos of this transitionary period, and the fact that she was a major repair/rebuild, it is hard to wrap my head around a designer draught, no matter how similar the vessel. Just look at NMM draughts of a French ship 'as captured' and the same ship after a couple months (or less) in a Brit dockyard (the differences are beyond striking).
 
Yard dogs are sensitive creatures. Once they get used to doing something one way, then, hey, that's kinda what ya gonna get for everything else. Ok, so I'm cynical. You could do a Belle-Poule, and I know it will be gorgeous and proportioned just right. But besides being cynical, I'm also a butt-head. Just saying.
 
No worries either way, Mark, my Commodorable whacks me up the side of my head as often as she thinks I need it. Which is a bit more often than I'm wanting to own up to, but likely a teensy bit less often than I really need.
 
Ciao. John

Thanks for the likes, comments and good wishes.  I've passed those along my lady.
 
I'm now working on the roofs.   They have the traditional "top hat" look with a decorative railing around them.    So.. I did some drawings in Corel and sorting out the look I want.  Then I grabbed some pear (not Swiss) stock and cut it to size and put in the Death Star.  I was surprised as I forgot to change the settings but that beast almost cut them out completely.  A few more watts or a bit slower on the cutting speed... It might have done it.
 
I'm now starting to shape these pieces as shown in the photo.  Once I'm happy with the shape, I'll do the decorative railing around the top in Euro Boxwood.  This railing will be really a first leap into the carving arena as the rail has a lute type of shape for the uprights.  I'm figuring I'll have to make each bit separately due to the curves and the shape of each.  If you look back a few posts of mine to the plan, you'll see what I mean.. but while being a challenge to move my skills up a notch or two, they should be fun.  I'm already having fun shaping them once I figured out how to the drops, this should be easier.
 
 

It's taken longer than I thought to get to this point.  I had a minor issue with wood that had defects unseen from the surface, but that goes with the territory and then also quite a bit going on in "life".   There will be another pause coming up for Janet's surgeries, but for the most part, that will just entail my keeping an eye on things during the recovery process.
 
The first drop is essentially finished except for some minor touch up (and the carvings...).  I've finessed it to fit the hull and the molding and it just needs a bit of touch up on the sweeping curve from top to bottom before gluing into place.  The other side is finessed into place and just needs the final shaping to get the curve and then any touch up work.
 
Once these are done, I'll post both sides and a stern shot. I'll need stern shot anyway for my records and to check for uniformity.
 
I won't be applying any finish for now until the wood has a chance to age and regain some of it's patina.  
 
Here's the photos...
 

 

This part that I'm working on now is probably one of the most relaxing parts I've done.  I think I've chilled out on things.  
 
The drops... they not only have their shape when viewed from the side, but also have to sit flush to the hull and also have to be rounded to match the gallery.  Then there's the outside shape from top to bottom which I can only describe as a rounded bevel.  Thick at the top, thin at the bottom.
 
Here's some pics of the work in progress.  I'm making both at the same time to shoot for uniformity  I started with blanks cut to the shape when viewed from the side. I then set up the scroll saw with sanding blades instead of cutting blades and did the fit to the hull.   I'm currently doing the shape from side to side to match the gallery.
 
Here's pictures of the process (not complete as I forgot to fire up the camera in between tossing some in the scrap box and starting over.  
 
First.. rear view to show the fit to the hull.

 
Side view to show the shape and fit to the gallery.

 
Lastly, the rounding to match the gallery.   Being cheap frugal, I have some 120 grit Olsen Sanding Blades that I've turned around and stuck a strip of 100 grit stickyback to.  Works like a charm.

 
More when I get the final shape done and after finessing the final fit.

So here's a question for the kit designers reading this. How do you judge what will sell or be popular? All of us can advocate for our little niches (riverboats, transitional craft, merchant ships, etc) but you professionals have to actually assess and decide what will be a good product. What does that R&D process look like? How much is guided by your own hunches and interests versus outside research into trends, etc.?

I'm getting serious about finishing the model now.  Although I'm retired, I have a consulting business that's been taking a lot of my time.  I'm turning my attention to completing the great cabin. The window seat at the stern is built "admiralty style" also - completely frames, but only some of the planking and raised panel front paneling installed.  I've completed the tiller and seized 4 of the 10 blocks required to their eyebolts.  Next I install the rudder-to-wheel rigging and start laying the roof beams.

What has left is the “key” of the shackle.
You might find your way to represent that “key” but following the above method, you have to consider at least the diameter of the holes of the shackles. It’s rather rare to find something to look like nail…3-4 mm long and with less than 0,50 mm in diameter.
 
Thankfully I recalled a tip from another mate some years before.
For those who are not familiar with the inner of a pc, the processor has one of its surfaces full of pins. What I did, is to set up a small fire in my backyard and take the last offer of an Athlon processor….
Then I collected many and ready for use “keys” for my shackles.
For those who will follow the same tip, you will find that many of those pins come out with some lead on their head. Don’t panic. Just keep them with a tweezers over a lighter's flame…

 
....................................................
 
That’s all mates. I hope at least I have inspired you and I’m sorry if you get tired with the use of English language... 
 
Many thanks

Next stage is to give a general “U” shape to those metal pieces.
-So by the use of a rounded nose plier on the edge of a surface (I suggest a wooden one), push each piece to bend it. Be aware, not to exert pressure at the edge of each piece but on the not flattened part of it. Because of the flattening and the hole, the edge has been weakened and you might ruin it. That’s why I mentioned “on the edge of a surface”.
 
-It’s also important to bend them symmetrical so that the edges be equal to each other.
 
-At this stage, when you have “U” shaped them all…you must align the holes on each metal piece by both axis.  

 
Finally, we come to the last stage.
Take every “U” shaped metal piece and place it under that modified hinge and in specific, between the pivot and a wooden pad. Then with a round nose plier exert pressure on the metal piece at the same time at both sides of the hinge. One or two passes will give you that “Ω” shape-the result you want. No need to mention, practice always leads to improvement…

Ok, let’s set a Shackles producing line….
You may choose your way for each of the following stages but I’m showing what I do…
 
-Take a piece of paper and draw two lines at the total length that a shackle should has to be, depending on the scale you work. I work at 1:24-1:26 scale so I found suitable the 8-9 mm length.
Place the wire between those lines and cut as many pieces you want to transform into shackles. In the photo is shown those ear piercing nails I use and incidentally the lines of the page are printed in 8mm space. !
-Take the heavy duty pliers and place each end of those pieces between its jaws, up to the line of the masking tape. Exert pressure and you will have a flat part on each end of the wire. Try to create those flat ends at the same level, although it will be a correction, later in the process.
Remember, the tape was placed at 2mm on the flat space, so it helps you not to measure every time how much part of the wire should be flattened.

 
When you finished with the flattening, it’s time to use the haemostatic pliers.
Take each piece of the wire and place each of the flattened parts between the jaws of the h. pliers under the 0,50 hole you have made.
Then with your rotary drill, and through that hole, try NOT to make a hole but a scratch mark on the flattened surface of the wire. You might have some holes (as in photo) on some of the pieces but this is not the aim at this stage. There is only one hole in the nose of the h. pliers, so if you try to make a hole in the wire by force, you probably will need a drill bit, for every hole you open…You can finish the job later over a wooden pad by the help of the scratch marks.

 
At this stage and if you like, you can round a bit the edges by the use of a thin file.

 
 

Before you start you need to make some modifications, as below.
 
a.Take the haemostatic pliers and if it’s necessary trim down (about to 4mm/ 0.15748 ‘’) one part of its nose. Then, making first a scratch mark on the surface of the same part, make a hole at 0.50 mm. You might need some drill bits here…

 
b.Take the part of the hinge and modify it as in photo. Namely, remove the pivot cut off the inner support and bring down the other support so that the pivot can be as close to the main part of the hinge.

 
c.Take the heavy duty pliers and place pieces of masking tape on both parts of its nose, leaving a flat space about 2mm/ 0.0787402’’.

 
That’s all for now mates, thank you and stay tuned…

Ok here we go.
Tools you will need.
The basics in your workshop but I consider also as necessary, what is shown in the below photo.
A heavy duty pliers, with some flat space (3-4 mm / 0.15748’’) at the edges of its nose.
A haemostatic pliers with as much can be narrow nose. If you can’t find this kind of pliers, you can use instead a strong self closing tweezers.
Your round nose pliers (small and larger).
One part of a small hinge, with the pivot.
Drills bits at 0,50 mm diameter.
Soft wire at 0,73 -0,75 mm in diameter (I think is suitable for the 1:24- 1:26 scale of my models). I used those in photo ear piercing nails, finding them suitable in dimensions and convenient in color (no need to paint them) …
And finally an old PC processor... 
 

Just a few notes on this model. The plans were drawn in CAD and be scaled to any size. The wood all comes from Hobby Lobby. It is all premilled sheet and strip wood. Nothing fancy here, but it can be made into a nice looking model. The paints were all Artist's acrylics except for the Minwax stain and sealer for the oars. For about $50, I can make 1/2 dozen of these skiffs, all painted and fitted differently and to any style I choose. Not a bad way to use some spare time.
 
Thanks for looking in. I appreciate it. Please let me know if there are any questions.
 
Russ

One last touch was a name for the boat. My client wanted to name it for his uncle Geo. So, I made a water slide decal with the name on a small banner. This is a local motif, although it is usually found on larger boats. However, it looks pretty good on the skiff.

Here are a few detail photos. The oarlocks were soldered brass wire and strip. They were painted grey. The oars were made with a few pieces of dowel and some sheet wood for the blades. The handles had a slot cut into their ends where the blade was fitted. Everything was shaped with sand paper and then stained and sealed. These could be painted as another option.
 
The painter was from some of Chuck's rope from Syren Ship Models.

Next the interior was painted and this is the finished model.
 
Russ

Let the painting begin. Not my favorite thing to do. First the white topsides and the red bottom. Not perfect, but I console myself with the knowledge that even in life, these were not perfect.