Cap'n Rat Fink

THANKS FOR STOPPING BY DAVE.....
 
Well finally back at the echo again.............
     over the weekend i started and finished off frames 3 fore n aft. the only power tool i used was my micro mark band saw. i have no jig saw or barrel sander. after using the band saw it was all files and sanding blocks to get frame 3 aft shaped per the plans.....i found that making the toptimber was easier then i thought it would be, but i had a devil of a time fashioning the blocks to the toptimbers. 
     i placed the frame in all sorts of configurations in my panavise, being very careful not to break it during filing and sanding it down. i even held it in my hand with some areas of sanding because i just could not get to sit right in the vise. ah to have a barrel sander. oh well ! so here are my results.
    hopefully by tomorrow night frames 4 n 5 will be completed and i will be raising the frames by the weekend....











 

cheers Mario.......

"Develop success from failures. Discouragement and failures are two of the surest stepping stones to SUCCESS!"

WELL WITH COMING AND GOING THIS WEEKEND I WAS ABLE TO BUILD AND COMPLETE 6 OR THE 12 FRAMES.

I DECIDED TO BUILD ONE FRAME AT A TIME WHICH WORKED VERY WELL FOR. THAT WOULD I WAS ABLE TO DEVOTE ALL MY CONCENTRATION TO ALL THE PARTICULAR DETAIL THAT GOES INTO JUST ONE FRAME.

ONCE ALL THE FUTTOCKS WERE LINED UP I GLUED THEM OVER THE DIAGRAM TO THEM ALIGHNED. ONCE DRIED I CUT OUT THE CROSS CHOCKS. FILED THEM TO FIT. THEN I GLUED THEM IN PLACE, OVER THE DIAGRAM TO THEM LINED UP. I PLACED WEIGHTS ON THEM UNTIL DRY.

WHILE I WAS WAITING FOR THE GLUE TO DRY, I WENT AHEAD AND PREPPED THE NEXT FRAME IN LINE. ANOTHER WARDS GLUEING THE PATTERNS TO THE MATERIAL AND CUTTING ALL FUTTOCKS OUT. BY THEN THE PREVIOUS FRAME WAS DRIED.

I WENT AHEAD AND GLUED THE NEXT FRAME TOGETHER. FUTTOCKS ONLY.....WHILE DRYING I TRIMMED THE CHOCKS AND STARTED CLEANING UP THE PREVIOUS FRAME.

THIS WAY IT KEPT ME MOVING ALONG.

MAKE SURE YOU KEEP PAGE 12 RIGHT NEXT TO YOU, BECAUSE IT GOES OVER SEVERAL DIFFERENT FRAMES YOU MUST PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO DETAIL...










 

HOME LATE FROM WORK TONIGHT BUT HAD TO FINISH OFF THE “DEAD FLAT FRAME”. IT TOOK ME A COUPLE OF HOURS SINCE THIS IS ALL NEW TO ME. BUT IT WAS GREAT FUN. I LEARNED A LOT FROM THIS ONE FRAME. I SHOULD BE ABLE TO SPEED UP A BIT NOW THAT I HAVE A GOOD IDEA ON HOW TO CONSTRUCT THE FRAMES. I EXPLAINED MY PROCESS ON MY PICTURES AS USUAL. IF I AM DOING IT WRONG PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
WHAT AMAZED ME WAS HOW DELICATE THE FRAME WAS WHEN GLUED WITHOUT THE CROSS CHOCKS, AND THEN HOW RIGID IT BECAME ONCE THE CHOCKS WERE IN PLACE.

I'M HAVING A GREAT TIME LEARNING THIS METHOD OF CONSTRUCTION!!!!
























 

WELL I HAD A LITTLE TIME TONIGHT TO MAKE A LITTLE MORE PROGRESS. I DECIDED TO WORK ON CREATING THE “DEAD FLAT 0”....

AFTER GLUING AND CUTTING OUT THE FUTTOCKS WITH MY BAND SAW, I CLAMPED THE PIECE TO MY VICE. NOW FROM THERE I USED MY FILE, DIFFERENT SIZE DOWELLS WITH SANDPAPER, SANDING BLOCKS, SANDING STICKS OF VARIOUS SIZES, AND EMORY BOARD. MOST WERE HAND MADE.














 

QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS ARE VERY MUCH WELCOMED.....TAKE CARE SEE YOU SOON....
















 

WELL I FINALLY GOT GOING WITH THIS CROSS SECTION. GETTING OVER MY BRONCHITIS SLOWLY, SO ALL WORK IS BEING DONE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE, A REALLY COLD FRONT HAS HIT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. 16 DEGRESS LAST NIGHT.
SINCE BEING SICK AND NOT DOING MUCH I FIRST DID MORE PREPPING. CUTTING OUT ALL THE FRAME PATTERNS AND ORGANIZING THEM. MOUNTING THE PLAN TO THE BUILDING BOARD.....AND FINALLY CUTTING OUT AND BUILDING THE KEEL ASSEMBLY.
















 

thank you Nils.........now I'll give something to really laugh about {go ahead.......I did }
 
 
another sub assembly I decided to play with,  are the ladders  {we all know how much I love to play with ladders}.   first off though........it's not in it's proper place,  but I though I show you this photo of the assembly I just made.........I just like how it looks 
 

 
with some 1/16 square stock,  I made the ladder that will go up the side to this part.......it leads to an upper platform.  I sanded it and took the squareness away,  but I'm not really happy with the rungs.   their not as clean as I would like them to be.
 

 

 

 
I then thought to make one like I did on the Nordkap,  using staples.   first starting with two equal length pieces of 1/16 square stock.......marking them in 5 mm segments.
 

 
then drilling the holes and cementing in the staples
 

 
when all was said and done.......it looked like this
 

 
I like it.........but wasn't happy with the fact that some of the staples weren't all the same height.......as if the holes in the Formica {all around there} wasn't a dead give - a - way to what was to happen next.
 

 
I had to keep in mind that I was using CA...........usually when I do some bone headed move like this,  I use white glue.......much easier to pry off the table.  the admiral saw me doing this earlier.......thought it was the coolest thing in the world.........she doesn't know about the outcome yet.  she liked the wooden ladder and thought I was nutz for thinking it wasn't good enough.  I think with a little tweaking on my method   I think it would work .  these are staples that fit in the mini staplers.   of all the best laid plans..........this one was too good....NOT....to show you :D

the rack.........nice......but it's wrong.  I had assembled it relying on memory....look where it got me.
 
there should be a few more pegs on the top......so I will add them.   I didn't allow for the podium and a lower level,  and set the racking back another 1/4 of an inch after all is assembled.  to start the correction, the appendage needs to be cut off.
 

 
I have to say one thing about this bamboo dowel.....it is a bit tough to get a clean cut,  without causing slivered splinters.   I'm having to repair them as I go along.   more on this soon.
 
I had cut a couple of lengths for the main part of the trawl rig.   I wish I could show this in place,  but it is not free standing,  in it's present state.  it's attachments are on the upper deck and the pilot house roof.
     in finding the measurements and angles....they are odd increments......too much for the sophisticated tools that I have,  so I had to improvise.   the top of this part is a larger dowel,  drill indented,  to accept the upright posts.  compounding my angles,  I was able to comply with the required increment of angle.
 

 
the rule fixed to the table,  gives the bottom of the uprights the spread it needs.......the magic number is 190 mm.
 

 
the spreader bar is added.......set high enough so it will clear the roof of the pilot house.
 

 
in the space above,  supports were added,  using smaller dowel.  it was assembled with CA.....but later filled in with white glue to remedy the small craters and divots.   I can add more later after I sand and see that it needs it.  I did both sides.
 

 

 
at the moment,  I'm playing with these sub assemblies.   the rub rails need to be added....and then maybe.....just maybe,  the hull can get cleaned up enough for paint....whooooooHooooooo!

once upon an idea...........there was a concept to build three boats,  all with a holiday theme.   they were part of an experiment,  to replicate hulls,  using kit parts panels.   in my opinion,  it was a success....the M&M fun ship being a completed build,  the trawler 'Syborn' well on it's way towards being the second ship to be completed.  the 'Syborn' is unique to me, because it was an added experiment in making the hull longer by adding in copies of key ribs, stretching the hull.  these two were created using the hull from the Billing's Mary Ann.......or even the Cux 87.
 
when I assembled the hull for the Boulogne Etaples,  I saw possibilities yet again.....and the three hulls were created from the parts panels from this kit.   I originally had three themes for the subject of Christmas,  but as time went on,  one of the themes fell through.  I was left with a hull without a theme
 
in building these boats.......I at least want them to be somewhat logical {although the M&M boat was more of an 'admiral's whim' }.   when I was making these hulls.......I had thoughts about the Andrea Gail.  I looked her up in the Billings catalog.....the bones were there...it could be done.   I kept her on the back burner.....I have projects started already...enough to keep me busy for a while.   maybe later.
 
months past...............
 
it was during my two month hiatus,  that the idea surfaced again.  I had downloaded the instructions for the R/C version of the A.G. and thought I would look at them.  I also found that there was also a static kit out there as well....smaller scale,  but just as detailed.  I thought about the Gundalow,  and how a simple article I read,  stopped me in my tracks.  perhaps that is the same problem here......can't say for sure......but you know it's pretty chronic,  if the admiral starts to take notice
 
if you've been following the Holiday Harbor build,  you've seen the modifications that needed to be done,  to create the basic hull.   I found an interesting article:
 
Perfect Storm, The - THE ANDREA GAIL
 
seeing the movie about the Andrea Gail during the time frame made me want to attempt this,   all the more.   I wish i had saved a copy of the search records.......they never found Capt. Tyne or his crew.
 
....and so......to where I am now.   the hull and the pilot house has been created.   the hull needs to have the external rails done,  and soon the paint.  I'm using the Billing's plans as sort of a practicum,  so......if you see something that may not be exactly correct,  it's just me keeping the copyright monster at bay {but it will be in the ballpark though}.  here is the hull and where I am now
 

 
I only had a chance to sand down the roof line of the pilot house so far....more needs to be done.
 

 
the ice maker looked too deep to me.......I took about 1/4 of an inch from it,  so that it would sit under the cut - a - way on the starboard side.
 

 

 
lastly.......here is the boat that they used in the movie......you can see on the bow where they had changed the name.
 

Back again for the final post of this part of the build.
 
These are the parts for my upper deck bitts. They will be assembled and fitted later.
 

 
The gunport lids have been fitted with their hinges and fixed to the ships side and have had the tackles for opening and closing added....
 

 
....and the tackles have been rigged.
 

 
Prompted by the other build that I mentioned in my intro I have added a boarding ladder and manrope.
A piece of timber was shaped, cut to length and shaped some more then fixed to the ships side.
 

 

 
Next the hammock netting frame and netting are attached...
 

 

 

 
...the hammocks will be made and added later.
 
Finally with the bitts in place and populated with some simulated rope and lines the main structure is complete.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
This build neatly divides into three areas. The first, just completed, is the main structure. The second is the the modification and construction of the two great guns and making and fitting their tackles. The third is the making of all the below decks paraphernalia and the final fitting out. This last area is full of scope for imaginative thinking but it is also likely to be the most fiddly and time consuming.
 
There will now be a short intermission.....or it could be a long one for I am off the to the Ordnance yard.
 
Mike.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Sorry about the break in transmission. Some clot at my front door trying to sell me building enhancements 
despite the notice telling him that I neither buy nor sell from the doorstep. He has gone now and will, no doubt, be digesting the advice that I gave him.
 
Where were we? 
 
The last image in my previous post showed the rear frame uprights removed and the start of stanchion fitting.
The stanchions are pinned top and bottom though the bottom ones are not seen.
 

 
Stanchions completed. Note that I have omitted the centre outboard stanchion in order to make room for some extra internal fittings that I have in mind for later.
 

 

 
Knees. I did not like the kit knees very much so I cut some new ones. As I did not have any suitable dark wood available these have been stained ( despite my earlier reply to Jan! ) I will gloss varnish these later to distinguish them!
 

 

 
Knees fitted. 
 

 

 
Gunport lids. These were cut to shape on the Byrnes saw using the tilting table. Oh, how easy!
 

 

 
The lids will be fitted later.
 
At this point I decided to stray from the plans again and add a ladder between the decks as this seemed to link the two levels of the model in a natural way.
 

 

 
The ladder fitted with its hatch combing. Later on I will decide how to finish this off .....grating in situ, set aside or none at all. 
 

 
Next the top deck planking. This caulked with black card and properly trenailed.
 

 
The completed top decking with a "finishing strip" added.
 

 
This image shows the butt shift and caulking before trenailing and sanding.....
 

 
....and this is a general top view after trenailing.
 

 

 
And finally the "finishing strip" at the rear of the deck.
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Back for more. This time it is the gun deck planking.
 
Before the planking can be fitted a hatchway and grating must be made.
 

 

 
The next image shows my jig for laying out the planking, working out the butt shift and trenailing.
 

 
As this deck will eventually be almost completely covered by cannon and various other fixtures and fittings I am not going to caulk and trenail properly but simply fake these features. The caulking will be black pencil edging and the trenails indentations in the planking made with the Patent Trenail Marker as per the other build that I mentioned in the intro to this one. I have, I think, improved on the original concept of the PTM by the addition of my impact centre punch!
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Now the planking is laid out on the jig, the butt shift joints are all marked up and the trenails have been punched in.
 

 
Laying planking commences....
 

 
....and completes with the fitting of the hatch.
 

 

 
Back later.
 
Mike
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Update Time........ a couple pictures showing where I'm at with this build. I left off with a repair underway, well , that's completed and so is the installation of the last two upper strakes p.&s. ran into a little problem with the stern , but that's taken care of also.
 
 
this shows the s.b. side where I had to remove the 3rd and 4th planks from the top. all repaired.
 

 
 
This one shows the stern planking flaring out too much. the transom wasn't going to fit properly so I had to reset the last two planks p&s .
 

 

 
 
Now the transom will fit
 

 
Bulkhead tops removed
 

 
Now I'll start fairing up the hull and start on the decking. Thanks for looking in.
 
Frank

Well here we go again.... another UPDATE!!!!....... I think I left off showing the first two planks being set, I've made some progress since then,
the first band is finished, port and starboard.  Before I started to do the planking I had ordered some basswood sheets from National Balsa.
While waiting for it to come in,I found  a  sheet of basswood that I had purchased from Michael's. ( 1/16thx 3 x24 ), so I thought I'd get a little head start before my  main supply came in. Well my supply came in and I started up again, I had finished 3 rows before I notice that National
Balsa's 1/16th  and Michael's 1/16th were a little off, just enough to p--- you off, so out came the alcohol, the removal was easy enough, I'm glad I did it, it looks better ( to me) I think once the planking is finished and the hull is sanded some, It should look OK . Another nice thing about spiling is that there 's not much room for fillers. I've been beveling one side of each plank that butts up to the previous one so they get a nice tight fit. Following are some pictures of the progress. By the way I highly recommend the spiling method for planking. I don't know what took me so long to try it...... FEAR!!!! :D
 
 
 
 
this is the second plank being fit on the first strake
 

 
 
you could never get this shape by just bending
 

 
the following just show planking to the end of the first band
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Well that's it for now folks..... Thanks for look'n in
 
Frank
 
 

a little update:....... the hull has been faired up, and now I'm lining off the hull for the planking. I tried soaking and bending some reg. stock
planking, but it was almost impossible to make it lie flat on the curvature at the bow, so I decided to use Chucks tutorial on planking. His explanation of how do to it was right to the point . He was so good at explaining it that even I could understand it . I tried a sample spiled plank and it layed beautifully, so I ordered  some sheet bass and spruce, I'm waiting for that to come in then I'll begin the planking. For lining out the hull, I tried using art tape,Tamiya masking tape, blue tape, frog tape, and nothing would stick , so I ended up using string and reg masking tape to tack it down.
I ended up with four bands..... the first three are pretty even from bow to stern.... the fourth is the widest and sweeps up pretty much at the stern so it's going to take some creative planing there I'm showing a couple pictures of the bands, if they don't look right I'd appreciate
anyone's input. Right at the bow it measures 20mm, I could drop it to 25mm like the rest of the band.... that way I could use 5 planks without any tapering for the first 3 bands, or should I leave it alone. Any thoughts on this???? Thanks
 
Frank
 
 

 
 

 
 

Thanks Mark. It does make one stop and think till you been on a air craft carrier which had a crew of 7000. Try feeding that many guys. That is untill you find out that they had three kitchens that usually work 24/7. Had to work in one for two weeks when I was on board the Midway. Lots of fun for sure.
 
Hi Larry.Thank you sir and am glad that my log is a help to you.  I was going to ask Larry but have you started a build log and would love to see your Alfred on here. Now if I understand your question your asking about the grating/deck planking on the orlop deck around the pump well? As far as grating on this deck am not sure that other then in the middle were hatches would of been may of been the only place for grating, which probably been flushed with the planking. Most of the plank's would of been short and fitted in to rabbets on the forward and aft edges of the top of the beams, which could be removed in order to get at the supplies in the hold. If I was going to plank it I would have just cut short planks to fit  between the beams. They did also fit carlings and ledges between the orlop beams to help strengthen the short planks between the beams but I didn't install them also. You may of miss this detail on the orlop deck so have included a photo showing the rabbet. Peter Goodwin in his book Sailing Man of War, show's on page 59 fig 2/8 how the planks would of looked accept I do believe they would have been flush with the beams. Keeps one from stubbing a toe that's for sure. Hope this is of some help Larry. If it doesn't answer you question let me know and we will come up with the right answer.
Gary 

Well guys, I got to finally do some cooking and if any one has a pig, bring it on over and we can have a roast. Only kidding but finally have Alfred stove just about finished. Been working on it for a couple of days and has been a lot of fun. Its built of copper and brass, and a few pieces of plastic and wood thrown in to the mix. Still have to put the  bar around it and finish the stack. A couple of the items, probably will get replace, such as the pot holder's and in the mean time will have to make some pot's and pans. Don't be to hard guys and still need a lot of work on it.   Also have to figure out how am going to get that cast iron look so if any of you have any ideal's on how to do this, let me know, would you please. Just to let you know there was a few items that came from Chuck's photo etch set which came in real handy, so thank you Chuck. Enjoy the photo's guy's.
 
Gary 

Hi guys and thanks for your kind word's. I finally have a little bit of a up date of Montagu. Work is keeping me very busy these days but did finally get the metal work done on her tiller. Do believe I will have to take the tiller out to get a good picture of it. Also have installed the sweep, gooseneck along with the tackle for the rope for the ships wheel. The plan is to try to install it like Ed did in one piece but being her wheel is two decks up might just not be the easies thing in the world but we will try. Enjoy the photo's folks hopefully I have more time in the future to work on her. Gary
 

 



 

Hi Guys and thank you.
Guy,your very welcome sir and glad that you are enjoying the photo's hopfully more will come.
 
Thank you Chuck,the hooks and blocks are a nice addition to the gun's. Thank you for them and should be ordering some more in the next couple of weeks or so.. Am sure you told me this but can you remind me of what type of metal you used? They seems to have a lot of strength.
 
YaRus, According to the contracts I have, it gives the height of the orlop deck to the gun deck as being 6 foot 6 inches from the beam of the orlop deck to the bottom of the gun deck planks. The gun deck from the upper deck as 7 feet, which was from the top of the plank of the gundeck to the top of the upper deck plank. The upper deck height was at the quarter deck as 6 foot 9 and at the forecastle as 6 foot 6 1/2 inches which was taken from the upper part of the deck planking to the top of the quarter deck and forecastle deck beams.
 
Remco your cannon's was a big help sir in the way that you rigged them. Your's gave me some thing to shoot for.
 
Thanks Brian, do hope she is of some help to you as you build yours. I take it that you are following the practicum by Romero. It does give one good ideal's but I sort of went down a different path of building Montagu. For me I wanted a more accurate Montagu then what you would get using Harold's and Romero to build one. If you have any question along the way let me know sir. I do take it you will be framing it using Harold's type of framing and jig? Good luck and look forward to your build log.
 
Well folks here is another update on Montagu and this time it's in making rope for the cannons. I have had a rope walk which was built by a good friend, of mine, Tom Nance, and purchased it from his wife after he passed away. It sort of been stowed away until I have had a need for some rope and after spending some time expertmenting I manage to make some rope for the cannons along with the messenger that you saw in the last post. It is based on the same rope walk that Frolick used in his book The art of shipbuilding. Another one of the photo's shows the pile of parts and pieces setting on the work bench waiting to be installed on the gun carriages, that is as soon as I have a little time to work on them. As you can see in another photo, my rope walk can be any length which at the moment is about ten feet long. .
Gary

Well guys, after finally getting all the gun deck ports cut in and the framing of the gun deck done I went to work on the out side of the hull installing the main wale. Montagu main wale was four strakes of 8 1/2 inch thick planks, with the upper two being locked together and the bottom two being locked together. When I mean locked together am talking about a hook anchor type of plank. Peter Goodwin shows this in his book but I also found to primary plans of it one being the Elizebeth and ,Montagues. I like Elizebeth wale and also her other planking that Montaguplanking is taken after her. Being that I don't have any ideally of which type was applied, felt safe following her's. Now when it came to the thickness of this planking I decided to do it in two layers both being applied hook anchor type planking. Doing the first layer like this gave me a chance to practice before I layed the outside layer and once it was done,it was dyed black and given a coat or two of wax. I wanted a black wale but didn't want to mess with ebony and one can not tell the difference when you look at it with ebony laying next to it. Another one of those interesting items that was fun to do.






 





 



 

On building the items for the gun deck I have uploaded photo's showing how I made my capstan's. Not quite as advance as Ed's, but am sure that several years in to Montagu life she just may of had those types. In ones travel of building and researching a ship of the line, one runs in to some interesting items such as the fore jeer capstain, and it being lower down in to the capstain room on the orlop deck.  Just to give some of you a heads up on this item, while researching this capstan, most of the contracts I have on them state that this capstain was lowered down to the orlop deck to make room for the long boat.  Steel shows this in his plates and talk's about it in his book Steel's Naval Architecture of 1805. After spending time trying to figure out how it worked I built what I thought was a good repersentive of it.  Did they really lower this down, I do believe so, why else would they have built it this way.

After the beams were installed and fitted in place, they were left loose so I could pull them out for cutting the notches for the carlings on the out side of the ship. I also added the hanging and lodging knees to the ends of the beams and seems that it took awhile to get the pieces to a point were they could be glued in place. At the same time the bitt's were added along with the fore mast partner which was sandwich in between the knees of the bitt's. Most probably know that the cross member of the bitts were not nailed in place but held in place by eyebots and hooks which I added  them. Since all the pull was on the bitts them self seems like a good thing to do and did save time if the cross members needed to be changed out.

LOOKIN REAL GOOD SJORS. MAN THIS IS A BIG MODEL YOU GOT HERE.

Hi Casey,
    if you go here.....  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1221-muscongus-lobster-smack-by-teleman-midwest-124/page-1 you can see what I did... Hope this helps you out a little...

Hello All,
A couple of small things left to do. But she is pretty much complete. i will add more detailed and close up picture in the completed Forum later this week.
Thank you all for watching

cheers Mario





 
 
Well I'm all done. some pic's may be out of order and some text might not make sence but it's better then nothing.....you all fun now!!!