kirill4

Good day Michael!

Looks Great!!!

Follow your build with great interest!

All The Best!!!

50 minutes ago, 72Nova said:

The modifications to the rudder are completed, the shackles are in place awaiting the chain, something in the 30 to 40 LPI should suffice for this scale and contemplating adding the rudder coat, overall happy with the result.

 

Michael D.

Good day Stevinne,

Your plan sounds good!

Don't forget to reinforce top construction, perhabs need to install some wooden or metal pins in some critical points to create reliable connection of top elements ?

When I did my rigging, I don't remember  issues with shrouds twisting, but I try to avoid as much as possible to create any tensions or load on shrouds and other standing rigging( due to plastic masts and spars of my model)... all were  done with applying minimum "forces" if we could say that, moreover, as I mentioned early, do better to paint all threads You use for rigging befor use... it could be painted by mix of artistic oil paints deluted in tick oil and thinner or by acryl artistic paints of suitable colors... actualy we need two colors for our purposes, bright for running rigging  and dark for standing...

There is a  receipt from one of high level modeller , how he paints his rope:

"...for coloring white threads with artistic oil paints, you can dilute the composition in half a liter container, for example - a tube of paint is mixed with liquid oil - teak, for example  (you can add more white spirit - to make the composition more liquid) Natural umber is used for standing rigging.  On running, ocher is added to this paint.
 It is dyed by pulling a thread through a can or a poured puddle of paint.  Then the thread is pulled several times through the cotton glove and hung out to dry.  Can be used in a day.

One of the Model of Dmitry Shevelev  https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=370243#p370243

Before painting or even when threads were painted and still wet and hanging for drying, it could be loaded a little with weight of some steel bolts or nuts which will release internal tensions some times remains in thread ... that also will help to avoid twisting effect...

All the Best!!!

Kirill

Ps 

There is sence to check which kind of  thread used for shrouds - right or left hand made and how it passes around desdeyes - clockwise or counterclockwise direction when fitted? 

Details You could found in Anderson book.

Good day,

It is very sad to see this troubles with topmast platforms... lacky Younare still in that stage when a few jobs for reinforcement could be done with small looses , but not like this kind of trouble could happened when all rigging completed and sails installed as well... that will be a real serious trouble

What I could guess, may be there is sence to undone upper shrouds, to reinforce entire tops construction and made them more reliable secured to the masthead?

Actually rim of the tops shouldn't be loaded by topmast shrouds and teared off the place, for that forces of the topmast shrouds transfered to the mast shrouds by means of futtock shrouds which are pass trough the holes in the top... looking at your photo I see topmast shrouds but no fitted futtock shrouds...hm... this is not right way to rigg topmast shrouds, may be this provoked troubles which You expetienced?

Good day Dave,

Your model is growing up very good!

I don't have wooden models building experience at all.

Rigging questions , for me , it is always like some kind of a pazzle in some extend, which is just allways interesting for discussion :)))... may be there are some points for improvements in the kit , or not , it all depends on of your intentions of couse, but the kit is quite good in common , as I could see,  watching those fragments of kits drawings which You posted above...

Wish You all the best! Watching your building reports with great interests!

Good day,

There are a few ideas, which could be found usefull, how to fitt shrouds in simple way by using cardboard patterns and thin brass wire and CA gel to fix shrouds when they passed around upper deadeye...

Pls note ,

*upper deadeyes temporary secured to the cardboard by thin soft wire , sometimes necessary to apply a drop of CA glue on the other side of the cardboard to make wire less moveable...

*than assembled piece of cardboard need to be precizely fitted in pozition between mast top platform and chainplate.

* shroud need to pass around upper deadeye by means of strong pincet with a very ,very little force just sufficient to keep shroud thread straight but no more! and  to secure its running end temporary in such position by any convenient way

* than apply a small drop of CA gel glue a little above upper deadeye and to squieze both branches of the shroud together in this point by means of long nose plears for a few seconds with redonable force to allow CA work and than apply one throat an two round siezings above deadeye and to cut off remains of running end of the shroud.

* all standing rigging threads were painted ( in necessary color by using mix of acrylic paints and matt varnish in free proportion You like) in advance  before installation, it made them flex like soft wire which,by my opinion,  makes them much handy to operate with...

Ps

There are a few other methods which make shrouds lanyards installation more easy...someone used to use a distance / calibrated piece of wood of certain length with metall pins in both ends which is fitted between lower and upper deadeyes, than running end of the shroud passing and fixed around upper deadeye and procedure repeated with another pair of deadeyes and so on, than lanyards of all shrouds could be fitted...

I don't remember, did I mention the very nice book about building MF replica written by its designer - it is just briliantc work about this vessel, there areca lot of information about MF replica  bulding  ,english 16-17  shipbuilding traditions with reach historic background, there are a few more articles about other colonial vessel of MF period, good set of drawings and excellent appendics tables with reach data of MF rigging as well...

Ps

I ve purchased it a few years ago  - perfect book!

There are a few scans where He gives sises of MF replica rigging...knowing your model scale You could recalculete sizes for your needs.. pay attention, sometimes in the book mentioned outside length of a circle of the rope but not a diam. of the rope, which need to he calculated

Good day Dave,

There are a few exell tables from different authors exists in the net for free download.

Tables for automatic calculation diameters of all rigging lines of your model, all You need to do just to feel in the cells a few basic parameters as scale, year of build, diam.of main mast , maybe a few more... and than You will have all sizes of your rigging, standing and running...

You could simplify a little calculated  results,  and join them to the group of similar sises of the ropes which You will really use on your model.

Knowing that You could manage threads of all necessary sizes for Your model.

The matter I mentioned these tables -I saw on the photo, that  probably You used too thick line for gammoning, and size of the gammoning and main stay collar looks the same?... which shouldn't be like that...

You could also calculate all basic sizes of your rigging by hand , knowing diam.of main mast in the base/ where it penetrates main deck... first You need to calculate diam. of main stay and than all other rigging lines sizes as proportional of main stay size.

There are good instructions and tables for such calculations in the Mondfeld book, but easyest way to use excell tables for automatic calculation... I think I saw such tables even in this MSW resource  in section about rigging...

I could advise before You start rigging of any lines on Your model first would be good to read relative sections in Anderson book ,which You have as I understood, as usual He gives all necessary details of the matter - purpose,functioning,location and often even sises of the ropes...

All the best!

Kirill

Ps 

There are a few scans from Mondfeld enciclopedia

Good day Dave,

Probably there is sence to shift lower collar of main stay to the aft a little, and to secure it as described in Anderson book?

Main stay lower collar and bowsprit gammoning norm. used to be positioned in different places , not in the same spot.

All the best !

Kirill

:))) and... how many people could exists on 1 m 2 !!!  Unbeliveable!

What is the matter of high cooperation, coexistance , and so on ...!:)))

Good example for us , modern ... :)))

Found a picture of some small Dutch galleon...visual addition ,could be considered as artist vew  to the question of rigging proportion...

Good day,

#90

Main and main top stays probably should be arranged in a little bit different way...?

Lower loop of MS used to be secured to the upper part of the  stem or to the fore mast or to the bowsprit  and run on the right side of the mast as a rule, and MS tackles in form of pair of 5 holes deadeyes or 3 sheeves blocks need to be placed very close to the fore mast ...

main top stay used to be passed trough the lead block which is secured under the "mars"  or above it, in both caces  lead block stropped very close to the mast top, main topmast stay passes trough this lead block and runs to the deck and secured near the mast base...or main topmast stay could be secured to the fore mast top by means of tackle formed by deadeyes or pair of blocks... 

Ps

Standing and running rigging ropes are all of different diameters , there are a few exel tables free for download to calculate your own ropes size, when model has all ropes of the same size it doesn't look nice and right...

Good day,

Very nice work!

Anchor 's rings are coming?

Good day Ondras,

Now overall appearance looks much more proportional!

Nice job... follow your building with great interest!

All the Best!

Kirill

Good day Ondras,

Lovely model and hjgh level craftmenship !!!

Like it very , very much!!!

Could it be happened  that designed "masts" happened to be  too small ( kind of proportional issue) for the size of the hull ?

of couse it is just my private opinion /impression after watching photo of your build log , I understood that everything made as per original  drawing , but... :)))

All the best!

ps

Could it be played in some comp. drawing programms , how general rigging plan  will be ooks like , if  masts , top- masts , etc...all will be  increased in length of  approx 5 to 10 % of original drawing size ?

Good day Dave,

I'm glad that You have it, a few years ago when I was busy with making my own rigging plan and assembling my galleon model, it gave me great support, even now if some qiestions arised or I forgot something I know where to find answers :)))...

However if some questions remains unclear people here will help You to find right unswer.

All the best!

Kirill

You are wellcome,

As You can see, there are about 17 pcs of rigging lines only ,necessary for operating of each square sail( main course at least)... they just are duplicated or "triplicated" on the drawing depends on how many sail has our model... just one time need to spend some time and study them( at least for one sail) and than You will have clear understanding what 's going on on the rigging plan for any of Your models in the future , but not like just a set of  unknown digits on the plan but as sertain name of each rigging lines.

All the best!

Kirill.

Good day Dave,

 Reading this book You will have clear understanding of the mames and functioning of each of the righing lines which were in use on the vessel of late 16th and most of the17th centuries, but there are no  exact rigging plans or belaying points location chart in this book ...

 he gives just approx  rigging lines locations, he mentioned traditional places where it could be most logically placed based on his studies of historic sources and museum models...

 If this rigging plan in the kit not clear , or some points are not clear , You could use any other conventional  galleon's models rigging plan together with information from RC Anderson book ... there are a few of them which were made on high professional level ... and actually all of them are very similar to each other :),

 reading Anderson book and at the same time  studying carefully any of those plans You will see how they exactly follow Anderson's guides...

 At least You could use riging plans of Cor Emke / Ab Hoving, museum Vasa 's rigging plan, Mondfeld 's rigging plan of Golden Hind model, anatomy of Susan Constant or recently developed model of Golden Hind ( based on Aker's reconstruction)and its rigging plan by Eugen Troppmann...

Ps

As variant both of these ring bolts for securing standing parts of top sail tie halliard could be located on the port and sb sides infront of each other, one on each side...they could be fitted on deck near waterways or on vertical timbers of the railings ... or both of them on one side, but I prefer to see them located on both sides as described by Anderson...

All the best !

Kirill

6_b riggfästen mm.pdf 7_b rigg rekons.pdf Golden Hind-T4A3.pdf

:))) we are thinking in the same direction - it is part of topsail running rigging...

Good day Baker,

That was I told about, aprox 2 hrs ago - it is rigging of topsail : topsail tie and tie hallyard...

All the best!

Kirill

Good day,

It looks like this is topsail tie  23 and another lines near by, a little bit to the aft , it looks like running backstays / no poz.N.

There is a perfect book written by RC Anderson-  gives all ( almost all :)) unswers on galleon rigging questions... highly recommended...

Ps

This fall / runner( 24) couldn't be run bellow deck level, just secure it in suitable,convenient place in the waist area...

Most probably, these two rings 25 shown on your drwng at one place,phisicaly are fitted on both sides on deck and need to be used for securing standing parts of this 23  topsail tie , one ring located  on ps - used for securing standing part of the runner, and another ring placed on sbs,used  for securing standing part of the halliard ,running part of the halliard 25 could be secured on the railing near by of its standing part.

Good day Michael,

What a microscopic parts!!! :))) Looks very readable + work of imagination and I could say in this scale You made it pretty,pretty good!

One of the option , if I may to suggest, these guns gears could be ommited at all as they often performed ommited on classic museum models of thus period...where scematic gun cariages( even w/o wheels) shown  only... there will be some kind of "hermetic " message for those  of us who are  involved in this business :)))...

but from other side -  when all shown, it is demonstration of your  highest modelling skills, if You want to show them in modern style! - as all gears settl ed 

All the best ! 

Kirill

Good day,

Dear Rick,

Very clean ,precision  and accurate job done!

Those "access" boards shown on the beackhead, are they kit's idea?

Looks quite unusual, as far as I knew, there used to be a full grating deck, often shown in special form of long strips with wide opened cells ( as I understood for easy passing water in/out in rough seas) instead of shape of gratings which used on decks, for these may be sence to fabricate them from scratch?

and there used to be placed a couple of crew's "seats of ease" , in the corners...  ?

All the best!

Kirill

Some pctrs of Willem Barents replica ship , constructions mentioned above

Good day Michael,

Oh, I see... if load test passed OK and consider there are bowsprit shrouds as well, it should work!!!

Follow Your building reports with great interest! :)))

All the Best!

Kirill

Good day,

Michel,

Good solution! But bowsprit itself, from which material, how it will work with" load "? 

All the best!

Kirill

Good day

Dear Dave,

Oh, if Your managed to purchase it , its ok ...

I think You will be good impressed by reading this book...there is very good historical research background  and detailed description of 16/ early 17th century galleon replica construction made by real naval engineer, and there are articles about two more vessels of MF period and sets of appendics with drawings and tables of rigging elements and all rigging lines with all names of each rope and  sizes used on MF replica is given in separate article !!!

By my opinion these 3 books "MF and other colonial vessels", "The Galleon ..." by Peter Kirsch, and " Rigging of the vessel in the day ..." by RC Anderson could be considered as "Must Have " especially when busy with making some of  galleon model... :)))

All The Best!

Kirill