Louie da fly

Hi Dick,
 
It's OK. I haven't definitively decided that just because something can be done, it's necessarily the way it was done. (You know my feelings about the incredible Hulc). I'm still keeping my options open.
 
There are a number of ships that come up in a google search for Ostia Ship. Can you let me know which one you mean?
 
Steven

I finally got around to doing a video of the Dromon. Strangely it turned out to be better filming it in artificial light (just the normal overhead fluoros in the room) than using natural light. Clearer, better colour and far fewer reflections fom the transparent surface of the case.
 
Steven
20230703_194350.mp4

Ah, interesting.
 
I thought it might be this one

Or perhaps this - all from Ostia.

You may be right - that could be what the mosaicist saw and misinterpreted. I'm certainly not fully satisfied that the "hole through the hull" is completely workable.
 
Here's a clearer view of the relief, by the way.
 

Some very interesting details there, even if 1000 years away from the San Marco ship.
 
Steven
 
 

Ah, interesting.
 
I thought it might be this one

Or perhaps this - all from Ostia.

You may be right - that could be what the mosaicist saw and misinterpreted. I'm certainly not fully satisfied that the "hole through the hull" is completely workable.
 
Here's a clearer view of the relief, by the way.
 

Some very interesting details there, even if 1000 years away from the San Marco ship.
 
Steven
 
 

Looking good, mate. I don't think you need to worry about a slight inequality between port and starboard. I'm tall, and I can't see the difference 
 
Steven

Hi Ian,
 
The height of the oarholes above water don't look excessive at all, but it was the heights at bow and stern that seemed a bit much. However, so far I haven't seen the full midships height once the superstructure is on so I don't have an idea of how it will look when that is added.
 
Good luck with those rudders! Your 'disguise' idea might be the only workable answer.
 
Anyway, looking good.
 
Steven

Ah, interesting.
 
I thought it might be this one

Or perhaps this - all from Ostia.

You may be right - that could be what the mosaicist saw and misinterpreted. I'm certainly not fully satisfied that the "hole through the hull" is completely workable.
 
Here's a clearer view of the relief, by the way.
 

Some very interesting details there, even if 1000 years away from the San Marco ship.
 
Steven
 
 

Hi Dick,
 
It's OK. I haven't definitively decided that just because something can be done, it's necessarily the way it was done. (You know my feelings about the incredible Hulc). I'm still keeping my options open.
 
There are a number of ships that come up in a google search for Ostia Ship. Can you let me know which one you mean?
 
Steven

Here's my first attempt to do a calcet based upon the mosaic ships. There was quite a bit of guesswork involved - even guessing that the black things above the tops actually were calcets rather than something else - I'd originally thought they were either the mastheads or flagpoles, but their strange shape, pretty much consistent in 4 out of 5 of the mosaics got me thinking they must be something else, and the only thing that seemed to fit was a calcet.
  
  
Why a calcet would be that particular shape, I have no idea. But I can understand that there could be a wide variety of shapes that would still do the job. So rather than get too involved with the mystery of the shape (that can be for later) I just made one that seemed to be the right shape and would do the job. Based on pictures of calcets - both drawings from some centuries later than this model, and the photo of the Ma'agan Mikhael calcet referenced above, I've given it two sheaves. I worked out a possible configuration to make that work, but again, this is pure speculation.

There are two tyes attached to the lateen yard, each of which runs through one of the sheaves in the calcet (at the top of the mast) and down. They come together to form a strop around a block which connects via the halyard to a knight at deck level. There's no direct evidence that this is how it was done, either iconographic or written, but it should work.
 
So here is the calcet for the mizzen, with a scarph joint to connect it to the mast itself.


 



Note: The scarph joint doesn't line up perfectly - this is a prototype; I've cut it right up at the top of the mast, above where it's supposed to be, just to see if it works. As it seems to be ok I'll now do the real joint in the correct position - the bottom of the joint should be in line with the base of the "crow's nest". I think I can arrange things to the tyes don't foul the sides of the crows nest, which is an open framework (see pictures in post #155 above).
 
 I've also added more deck beams for the main hull and finished the deck beams for the aftercastle, with openings for the mast partners and for a companionway coming up from the cabin space below.

And then I removed the aftercastle to work on the deck beams and sides.

I added a railing around the aftercastle, which is how I interpret the mosaics.




 

Next I plan to do all the rest of the deck beams (allowing openings for two hatches - one between the aftercastle and the central mast, and one between that mast and the foremast). And make and install beam clamps for the deck of the cabin below the aftercastle. Unfortunately my cheap soldering iron which I've been using as a plank bender, up and died today, So it looks like I'll have to get another one - unless I can make the vegetable steamer do the job. Worth a try.
 
Steven
 
 

 
 
 

Congratulations on your first sea trial!
 
That sounds like a good idea. I'd agree: although the fulcrum for oars should be as close to the water as possible for maximum rowing efficiency, they do need to be able to be lifted far enough to avoid catching crabs on the return stroke.
 
The action looks good - quite similar to that of the Olympias, so you must be on the right track. Perhaps a little slower would be good, to look even more realistic? I know this works for model railways - people always seem to run their trains too fast to look quite real.
 
Yes - so is the Olympias. Apparently people have to be careful walking around on the upper deck because the vessel tilts alarmingly very easily.
 
Your turning using backwater on one side seems to work well (though again, perhaps it would look better if it was a little slower). I can understand your issues with the rudders for lesser turns. Unfortunately I can't make any suggestions - you're right; not enough movement through the water to get the rudders to 'bite' properly, and this may simply be a matter of scale - she's 1/32nd of the length of the full-sized ship, so volume is 1/32 x 1/32 x 1/32 = 1/32,768 according to my calculator - miniscule effects compared to the real thing - perhaps even in relation to the water molecules? Certainly in relation to surface tension.
 
Now that I see her in the water, she seems rather high in comparison with her length for a vessel propelled by muscle power. (extra height = extra weight) - at least at bow and stern. I just looked back at page 4 of your build log (posts #100 and #106) and your quadrireme does seem rather higher in relation to its length than the triere shown in post #100 (I realise they're not the same type of ship and that does make a difference). Might just be worth a thought. The weight difference surely doesn't make any difference to her performance, so long as she floats at the right level - and it would be totally pointless getting into a scaled power to weight ratio comparison between a fully loaded and crewed ship with the power provided by a crew, vs the weight of  the mechanism you've put into your model and the power it provides. 
 
The carrying handle idea seems worthwhile - it'll be interesting to see if it works ok.
 
Anyway, wonderful work so far. Looking forward to further progress.
 
Steven
 
 

Thanks for all the likes.
 
Cathead, that's a good question. It seems to vary somewhat. I went with what looked like it would work best. Perhaps it might have been better to have it a little further aft, but it seems to be ok to go either way. The helmsman himself is stationed in front of the aftercastle in most cases, and as you can see, there is quite a bit of variation in the configuration of the aftercastle itself. And these are all supposed to be the same ship!


 
Steven

Thanks for all the likes.
 
Cathead, that's a good question. It seems to vary somewhat. I went with what looked like it would work best. Perhaps it might have been better to have it a little further aft, but it seems to be ok to go either way. The helmsman himself is stationed in front of the aftercastle in most cases, and as you can see, there is quite a bit of variation in the configuration of the aftercastle itself. And these are all supposed to be the same ship!


 
Steven

Thanks for all the likes.
 
Cathead, that's a good question. It seems to vary somewhat. I went with what looked like it would work best. Perhaps it might have been better to have it a little further aft, but it seems to be ok to go either way. The helmsman himself is stationed in front of the aftercastle in most cases, and as you can see, there is quite a bit of variation in the configuration of the aftercastle itself. And these are all supposed to be the same ship!


 
Steven

I haven't posted lately, but I haven't been idle.
 
Staircase from the Captain's cabin down to the hold. I'd originally intended it to be going out through the fore end of the cabin, but discovered the break of the poop got in the way, so instead I found another place for it, where it still wouldn't intrude too much into the rest of the cabin space. Having this set of stairs means the captain doesn't have to go UP to the poop, DOWN to the maindeck and DOWN again to the hold, but can get there down a single set of stairs.

Ladders - the wider one goes down from the poop deck to the Captain's cabin, the narrower one down from the maindeck to the hold.

Making the tops. Tightly bent pine strips to make a "basket". Took a lot more work than I'd expected, but finally all complete to my satisfaction.

And attached to the masts

Maindeck planking.
  
The 'crossbeams' in the second picture are my impromptu clamps to push the planking down into contact with the deck beams till the glue dries.
 
And deck planking complete, with the aftercastle dry fitted. The stairs down from the maindeck to the hold will be in the oblong opening just in front of the fore hatch.

Unfortunately I realised too late that with the decking in place it's going to be difficult to clamp the hull planking to the frames. To misquote the famous Eccles  "I should have thought of that sooner, shouldn't I?" So I've given myself a bit of a problem. I won't be planking in this sequence next time. But I'm sure I'll come up with a solution.
 
And now I'm going out on a limb. I had originally decided that the pictures in the mosaics showing the side rudders coming through a hole in the hull were unworkable, unlikely and anathema.

But when I worked out where they were going, and the shape of the hull at that point, I decided to try it out and see if I could make it work. I first had to cut one of the frames short between the top wale and the gunwale to allow enough 'swing" for the rudders to be swung up out of the way. The hull would be a tiny bit weaker at that point (but nowhere near as much weakened as, say, cutting out gunports).
 


The rudders do stick out at an angle sideways somewhat rather than being vertical, and at least in this configuration with a wale in the way there's no way to change that. This might affect the steering to a certain degree, but perhaps not as much as might be thought. The rudders can still swivel in the vertical plane just as does a stern rudder, so the ship should be able to be steered that way. Had I placed the wales differently, the rudders might have been considerably closer to vertical, and that would have been better still. But I'm quite happy with them as it is, at least for a first iteration of the design. I won't be changing it - it's an experiment, and I think I've shown - at least to my own satisfaction - that rudders coming through a hole in the hull would have been workable.

There remains the issue of being able to remove the rudders when in port, in line with legal requirements (the authorities would hold onto the rudders while in port to discourage ships from doing a 'flit' without paying harbour dues). But that could be solved by having the tillers removable, so the rudder could be let down through the hole, to a boat (as in Woodrat's Venetian Round Ship).
 
Steven
 
 
 
 

Thanks for all the likes.
 
Cathead, that's a good question. It seems to vary somewhat. I went with what looked like it would work best. Perhaps it might have been better to have it a little further aft, but it seems to be ok to go either way. The helmsman himself is stationed in front of the aftercastle in most cases, and as you can see, there is quite a bit of variation in the configuration of the aftercastle itself. And these are all supposed to be the same ship!


 
Steven

I haven't posted lately, but I haven't been idle.
 
Staircase from the Captain's cabin down to the hold. I'd originally intended it to be going out through the fore end of the cabin, but discovered the break of the poop got in the way, so instead I found another place for it, where it still wouldn't intrude too much into the rest of the cabin space. Having this set of stairs means the captain doesn't have to go UP to the poop, DOWN to the maindeck and DOWN again to the hold, but can get there down a single set of stairs.

Ladders - the wider one goes down from the poop deck to the Captain's cabin, the narrower one down from the maindeck to the hold.

Making the tops. Tightly bent pine strips to make a "basket". Took a lot more work than I'd expected, but finally all complete to my satisfaction.

And attached to the masts

Maindeck planking.
  
The 'crossbeams' in the second picture are my impromptu clamps to push the planking down into contact with the deck beams till the glue dries.
 
And deck planking complete, with the aftercastle dry fitted. The stairs down from the maindeck to the hold will be in the oblong opening just in front of the fore hatch.

Unfortunately I realised too late that with the decking in place it's going to be difficult to clamp the hull planking to the frames. To misquote the famous Eccles  "I should have thought of that sooner, shouldn't I?" So I've given myself a bit of a problem. I won't be planking in this sequence next time. But I'm sure I'll come up with a solution.
 
And now I'm going out on a limb. I had originally decided that the pictures in the mosaics showing the side rudders coming through a hole in the hull were unworkable, unlikely and anathema.

But when I worked out where they were going, and the shape of the hull at that point, I decided to try it out and see if I could make it work. I first had to cut one of the frames short between the top wale and the gunwale to allow enough 'swing" for the rudders to be swung up out of the way. The hull would be a tiny bit weaker at that point (but nowhere near as much weakened as, say, cutting out gunports).
 


The rudders do stick out at an angle sideways somewhat rather than being vertical, and at least in this configuration with a wale in the way there's no way to change that. This might affect the steering to a certain degree, but perhaps not as much as might be thought. The rudders can still swivel in the vertical plane just as does a stern rudder, so the ship should be able to be steered that way. Had I placed the wales differently, the rudders might have been considerably closer to vertical, and that would have been better still. But I'm quite happy with them as it is, at least for a first iteration of the design. I won't be changing it - it's an experiment, and I think I've shown - at least to my own satisfaction - that rudders coming through a hole in the hull would have been workable.

There remains the issue of being able to remove the rudders when in port, in line with legal requirements (the authorities would hold onto the rudders while in port to discourage ships from doing a 'flit' without paying harbour dues). But that could be solved by having the tillers removable, so the rudder could be let down through the hole, to a boat (as in Woodrat's Venetian Round Ship).
 
Steven
 
 
 
 

I haven't posted lately, but I haven't been idle.
 
Staircase from the Captain's cabin down to the hold. I'd originally intended it to be going out through the fore end of the cabin, but discovered the break of the poop got in the way, so instead I found another place for it, where it still wouldn't intrude too much into the rest of the cabin space. Having this set of stairs means the captain doesn't have to go UP to the poop, DOWN to the maindeck and DOWN again to the hold, but can get there down a single set of stairs.

Ladders - the wider one goes down from the poop deck to the Captain's cabin, the narrower one down from the maindeck to the hold.

Making the tops. Tightly bent pine strips to make a "basket". Took a lot more work than I'd expected, but finally all complete to my satisfaction.

And attached to the masts

Maindeck planking.
  
The 'crossbeams' in the second picture are my impromptu clamps to push the planking down into contact with the deck beams till the glue dries.
 
And deck planking complete, with the aftercastle dry fitted. The stairs down from the maindeck to the hold will be in the oblong opening just in front of the fore hatch.

Unfortunately I realised too late that with the decking in place it's going to be difficult to clamp the hull planking to the frames. To misquote the famous Eccles  "I should have thought of that sooner, shouldn't I?" So I've given myself a bit of a problem. I won't be planking in this sequence next time. But I'm sure I'll come up with a solution.
 
And now I'm going out on a limb. I had originally decided that the pictures in the mosaics showing the side rudders coming through a hole in the hull were unworkable, unlikely and anathema.

But when I worked out where they were going, and the shape of the hull at that point, I decided to try it out and see if I could make it work. I first had to cut one of the frames short between the top wale and the gunwale to allow enough 'swing" for the rudders to be swung up out of the way. The hull would be a tiny bit weaker at that point (but nowhere near as much weakened as, say, cutting out gunports).
 


The rudders do stick out at an angle sideways somewhat rather than being vertical, and at least in this configuration with a wale in the way there's no way to change that. This might affect the steering to a certain degree, but perhaps not as much as might be thought. The rudders can still swivel in the vertical plane just as does a stern rudder, so the ship should be able to be steered that way. Had I placed the wales differently, the rudders might have been considerably closer to vertical, and that would have been better still. But I'm quite happy with them as it is, at least for a first iteration of the design. I won't be changing it - it's an experiment, and I think I've shown - at least to my own satisfaction - that rudders coming through a hole in the hull would have been workable.

There remains the issue of being able to remove the rudders when in port, in line with legal requirements (the authorities would hold onto the rudders while in port to discourage ships from doing a 'flit' without paying harbour dues). But that could be solved by having the tillers removable, so the rudder could be let down through the hole, to a boat (as in Woodrat's Venetian Round Ship).
 
Steven
 
 
 
 

Thanks for all the likes.
 
Cathead, that's a good question. It seems to vary somewhat. I went with what looked like it would work best. Perhaps it might have been better to have it a little further aft, but it seems to be ok to go either way. The helmsman himself is stationed in front of the aftercastle in most cases, and as you can see, there is quite a bit of variation in the configuration of the aftercastle itself. And these are all supposed to be the same ship!


 
Steven

I haven't posted lately, but I haven't been idle.
 
Staircase from the Captain's cabin down to the hold. I'd originally intended it to be going out through the fore end of the cabin, but discovered the break of the poop got in the way, so instead I found another place for it, where it still wouldn't intrude too much into the rest of the cabin space. Having this set of stairs means the captain doesn't have to go UP to the poop, DOWN to the maindeck and DOWN again to the hold, but can get there down a single set of stairs.

Ladders - the wider one goes down from the poop deck to the Captain's cabin, the narrower one down from the maindeck to the hold.

Making the tops. Tightly bent pine strips to make a "basket". Took a lot more work than I'd expected, but finally all complete to my satisfaction.

And attached to the masts

Maindeck planking.
  
The 'crossbeams' in the second picture are my impromptu clamps to push the planking down into contact with the deck beams till the glue dries.
 
And deck planking complete, with the aftercastle dry fitted. The stairs down from the maindeck to the hold will be in the oblong opening just in front of the fore hatch.

Unfortunately I realised too late that with the decking in place it's going to be difficult to clamp the hull planking to the frames. To misquote the famous Eccles  "I should have thought of that sooner, shouldn't I?" So I've given myself a bit of a problem. I won't be planking in this sequence next time. But I'm sure I'll come up with a solution.
 
And now I'm going out on a limb. I had originally decided that the pictures in the mosaics showing the side rudders coming through a hole in the hull were unworkable, unlikely and anathema.

But when I worked out where they were going, and the shape of the hull at that point, I decided to try it out and see if I could make it work. I first had to cut one of the frames short between the top wale and the gunwale to allow enough 'swing" for the rudders to be swung up out of the way. The hull would be a tiny bit weaker at that point (but nowhere near as much weakened as, say, cutting out gunports).
 


The rudders do stick out at an angle sideways somewhat rather than being vertical, and at least in this configuration with a wale in the way there's no way to change that. This might affect the steering to a certain degree, but perhaps not as much as might be thought. The rudders can still swivel in the vertical plane just as does a stern rudder, so the ship should be able to be steered that way. Had I placed the wales differently, the rudders might have been considerably closer to vertical, and that would have been better still. But I'm quite happy with them as it is, at least for a first iteration of the design. I won't be changing it - it's an experiment, and I think I've shown - at least to my own satisfaction - that rudders coming through a hole in the hull would have been workable.

There remains the issue of being able to remove the rudders when in port, in line with legal requirements (the authorities would hold onto the rudders while in port to discourage ships from doing a 'flit' without paying harbour dues). But that could be solved by having the tillers removable, so the rudder could be let down through the hole, to a boat (as in Woodrat's Venetian Round Ship).
 
Steven
 
 
 
 

Thanks for all the likes.
 
Cathead, that's a good question. It seems to vary somewhat. I went with what looked like it would work best. Perhaps it might have been better to have it a little further aft, but it seems to be ok to go either way. The helmsman himself is stationed in front of the aftercastle in most cases, and as you can see, there is quite a bit of variation in the configuration of the aftercastle itself. And these are all supposed to be the same ship!


 
Steven

Thanks for all the likes.
 
Cathead, that's a good question. It seems to vary somewhat. I went with what looked like it would work best. Perhaps it might have been better to have it a little further aft, but it seems to be ok to go either way. The helmsman himself is stationed in front of the aftercastle in most cases, and as you can see, there is quite a bit of variation in the configuration of the aftercastle itself. And these are all supposed to be the same ship!


 
Steven

I haven't posted lately, but I haven't been idle.
 
Staircase from the Captain's cabin down to the hold. I'd originally intended it to be going out through the fore end of the cabin, but discovered the break of the poop got in the way, so instead I found another place for it, where it still wouldn't intrude too much into the rest of the cabin space. Having this set of stairs means the captain doesn't have to go UP to the poop, DOWN to the maindeck and DOWN again to the hold, but can get there down a single set of stairs.

Ladders - the wider one goes down from the poop deck to the Captain's cabin, the narrower one down from the maindeck to the hold.

Making the tops. Tightly bent pine strips to make a "basket". Took a lot more work than I'd expected, but finally all complete to my satisfaction.

And attached to the masts

Maindeck planking.
  
The 'crossbeams' in the second picture are my impromptu clamps to push the planking down into contact with the deck beams till the glue dries.
 
And deck planking complete, with the aftercastle dry fitted. The stairs down from the maindeck to the hold will be in the oblong opening just in front of the fore hatch.

Unfortunately I realised too late that with the decking in place it's going to be difficult to clamp the hull planking to the frames. To misquote the famous Eccles  "I should have thought of that sooner, shouldn't I?" So I've given myself a bit of a problem. I won't be planking in this sequence next time. But I'm sure I'll come up with a solution.
 
And now I'm going out on a limb. I had originally decided that the pictures in the mosaics showing the side rudders coming through a hole in the hull were unworkable, unlikely and anathema.

But when I worked out where they were going, and the shape of the hull at that point, I decided to try it out and see if I could make it work. I first had to cut one of the frames short between the top wale and the gunwale to allow enough 'swing" for the rudders to be swung up out of the way. The hull would be a tiny bit weaker at that point (but nowhere near as much weakened as, say, cutting out gunports).
 


The rudders do stick out at an angle sideways somewhat rather than being vertical, and at least in this configuration with a wale in the way there's no way to change that. This might affect the steering to a certain degree, but perhaps not as much as might be thought. The rudders can still swivel in the vertical plane just as does a stern rudder, so the ship should be able to be steered that way. Had I placed the wales differently, the rudders might have been considerably closer to vertical, and that would have been better still. But I'm quite happy with them as it is, at least for a first iteration of the design. I won't be changing it - it's an experiment, and I think I've shown - at least to my own satisfaction - that rudders coming through a hole in the hull would have been workable.

There remains the issue of being able to remove the rudders when in port, in line with legal requirements (the authorities would hold onto the rudders while in port to discourage ships from doing a 'flit' without paying harbour dues). But that could be solved by having the tillers removable, so the rudder could be let down through the hole, to a boat (as in Woodrat's Venetian Round Ship).
 
Steven
 
 
 
 

I haven't posted lately, but I haven't been idle.
 
Staircase from the Captain's cabin down to the hold. I'd originally intended it to be going out through the fore end of the cabin, but discovered the break of the poop got in the way, so instead I found another place for it, where it still wouldn't intrude too much into the rest of the cabin space. Having this set of stairs means the captain doesn't have to go UP to the poop, DOWN to the maindeck and DOWN again to the hold, but can get there down a single set of stairs.

Ladders - the wider one goes down from the poop deck to the Captain's cabin, the narrower one down from the maindeck to the hold.

Making the tops. Tightly bent pine strips to make a "basket". Took a lot more work than I'd expected, but finally all complete to my satisfaction.

And attached to the masts

Maindeck planking.
  
The 'crossbeams' in the second picture are my impromptu clamps to push the planking down into contact with the deck beams till the glue dries.
 
And deck planking complete, with the aftercastle dry fitted. The stairs down from the maindeck to the hold will be in the oblong opening just in front of the fore hatch.

Unfortunately I realised too late that with the decking in place it's going to be difficult to clamp the hull planking to the frames. To misquote the famous Eccles  "I should have thought of that sooner, shouldn't I?" So I've given myself a bit of a problem. I won't be planking in this sequence next time. But I'm sure I'll come up with a solution.
 
And now I'm going out on a limb. I had originally decided that the pictures in the mosaics showing the side rudders coming through a hole in the hull were unworkable, unlikely and anathema.

But when I worked out where they were going, and the shape of the hull at that point, I decided to try it out and see if I could make it work. I first had to cut one of the frames short between the top wale and the gunwale to allow enough 'swing" for the rudders to be swung up out of the way. The hull would be a tiny bit weaker at that point (but nowhere near as much weakened as, say, cutting out gunports).
 


The rudders do stick out at an angle sideways somewhat rather than being vertical, and at least in this configuration with a wale in the way there's no way to change that. This might affect the steering to a certain degree, but perhaps not as much as might be thought. The rudders can still swivel in the vertical plane just as does a stern rudder, so the ship should be able to be steered that way. Had I placed the wales differently, the rudders might have been considerably closer to vertical, and that would have been better still. But I'm quite happy with them as it is, at least for a first iteration of the design. I won't be changing it - it's an experiment, and I think I've shown - at least to my own satisfaction - that rudders coming through a hole in the hull would have been workable.

There remains the issue of being able to remove the rudders when in port, in line with legal requirements (the authorities would hold onto the rudders while in port to discourage ships from doing a 'flit' without paying harbour dues). But that could be solved by having the tillers removable, so the rudder could be let down through the hole, to a boat (as in Woodrat's Venetian Round Ship).
 
Steven
 
 
 
 

I haven't posted lately, but I haven't been idle.
 
Staircase from the Captain's cabin down to the hold. I'd originally intended it to be going out through the fore end of the cabin, but discovered the break of the poop got in the way, so instead I found another place for it, where it still wouldn't intrude too much into the rest of the cabin space. Having this set of stairs means the captain doesn't have to go UP to the poop, DOWN to the maindeck and DOWN again to the hold, but can get there down a single set of stairs.

Ladders - the wider one goes down from the poop deck to the Captain's cabin, the narrower one down from the maindeck to the hold.

Making the tops. Tightly bent pine strips to make a "basket". Took a lot more work than I'd expected, but finally all complete to my satisfaction.

And attached to the masts

Maindeck planking.
  
The 'crossbeams' in the second picture are my impromptu clamps to push the planking down into contact with the deck beams till the glue dries.
 
And deck planking complete, with the aftercastle dry fitted. The stairs down from the maindeck to the hold will be in the oblong opening just in front of the fore hatch.

Unfortunately I realised too late that with the decking in place it's going to be difficult to clamp the hull planking to the frames. To misquote the famous Eccles  "I should have thought of that sooner, shouldn't I?" So I've given myself a bit of a problem. I won't be planking in this sequence next time. But I'm sure I'll come up with a solution.
 
And now I'm going out on a limb. I had originally decided that the pictures in the mosaics showing the side rudders coming through a hole in the hull were unworkable, unlikely and anathema.

But when I worked out where they were going, and the shape of the hull at that point, I decided to try it out and see if I could make it work. I first had to cut one of the frames short between the top wale and the gunwale to allow enough 'swing" for the rudders to be swung up out of the way. The hull would be a tiny bit weaker at that point (but nowhere near as much weakened as, say, cutting out gunports).
 


The rudders do stick out at an angle sideways somewhat rather than being vertical, and at least in this configuration with a wale in the way there's no way to change that. This might affect the steering to a certain degree, but perhaps not as much as might be thought. The rudders can still swivel in the vertical plane just as does a stern rudder, so the ship should be able to be steered that way. Had I placed the wales differently, the rudders might have been considerably closer to vertical, and that would have been better still. But I'm quite happy with them as it is, at least for a first iteration of the design. I won't be changing it - it's an experiment, and I think I've shown - at least to my own satisfaction - that rudders coming through a hole in the hull would have been workable.

There remains the issue of being able to remove the rudders when in port, in line with legal requirements (the authorities would hold onto the rudders while in port to discourage ships from doing a 'flit' without paying harbour dues). But that could be solved by having the tillers removable, so the rudder could be let down through the hole, to a boat (as in Woodrat's Venetian Round Ship).
 
Steven
 
 
 
 

I haven't posted lately, but I haven't been idle.
 
Staircase from the Captain's cabin down to the hold. I'd originally intended it to be going out through the fore end of the cabin, but discovered the break of the poop got in the way, so instead I found another place for it, where it still wouldn't intrude too much into the rest of the cabin space. Having this set of stairs means the captain doesn't have to go UP to the poop, DOWN to the maindeck and DOWN again to the hold, but can get there down a single set of stairs.

Ladders - the wider one goes down from the poop deck to the Captain's cabin, the narrower one down from the maindeck to the hold.

Making the tops. Tightly bent pine strips to make a "basket". Took a lot more work than I'd expected, but finally all complete to my satisfaction.

And attached to the masts

Maindeck planking.
  
The 'crossbeams' in the second picture are my impromptu clamps to push the planking down into contact with the deck beams till the glue dries.
 
And deck planking complete, with the aftercastle dry fitted. The stairs down from the maindeck to the hold will be in the oblong opening just in front of the fore hatch.

Unfortunately I realised too late that with the decking in place it's going to be difficult to clamp the hull planking to the frames. To misquote the famous Eccles  "I should have thought of that sooner, shouldn't I?" So I've given myself a bit of a problem. I won't be planking in this sequence next time. But I'm sure I'll come up with a solution.
 
And now I'm going out on a limb. I had originally decided that the pictures in the mosaics showing the side rudders coming through a hole in the hull were unworkable, unlikely and anathema.

But when I worked out where they were going, and the shape of the hull at that point, I decided to try it out and see if I could make it work. I first had to cut one of the frames short between the top wale and the gunwale to allow enough 'swing" for the rudders to be swung up out of the way. The hull would be a tiny bit weaker at that point (but nowhere near as much weakened as, say, cutting out gunports).
 


The rudders do stick out at an angle sideways somewhat rather than being vertical, and at least in this configuration with a wale in the way there's no way to change that. This might affect the steering to a certain degree, but perhaps not as much as might be thought. The rudders can still swivel in the vertical plane just as does a stern rudder, so the ship should be able to be steered that way. Had I placed the wales differently, the rudders might have been considerably closer to vertical, and that would have been better still. But I'm quite happy with them as it is, at least for a first iteration of the design. I won't be changing it - it's an experiment, and I think I've shown - at least to my own satisfaction - that rudders coming through a hole in the hull would have been workable.

There remains the issue of being able to remove the rudders when in port, in line with legal requirements (the authorities would hold onto the rudders while in port to discourage ships from doing a 'flit' without paying harbour dues). But that could be solved by having the tillers removable, so the rudder could be let down through the hole, to a boat (as in Woodrat's Venetian Round Ship).
 
Steven