CharlieZardoz

We like questions. Helps get the brain juices flowing.

Hi guys. Its my understanding that Wasp was originally intended to be a schooner rig like Syren or Argus being only 10' larger. Im assuming the quarter davits were added as sloops became larger and more "ship like" there would be reason for them to have davits like frigates. Interesting question though heres a model of Wasp as I know her to be.

And last image for the weekend (got a busy work week ahead! ). I drilled in the mast holes (slightly smaller than they will be but showed me where they will be placed in relation to the deck fittings. The way I positioned them was to take a cutout of the plans put a piece of wood behind it and line them up. The front mast leans about 85 degrees while the main mast about 80 degrees. Next ahead is building the larger grating, placing the garboard plank ooooh and a surprise! Stay tuned!

Ok so wanted to do a research update. Bottom line is I've decided that the 3 Doughty cutters will be named Active-31, Monroe-52 and Vigilant-79. My decision for this is based off a passage on page 76 of Irving King's book "The coast guard under sail" which states that the 3 of them sailed together on the Cheaspeake Bay. It also states that in 1824 Active was replaced by Vigillant a ship twice her size, this imagery got me stoked for how I want to portray these ships. The year is 1824 and the Active after years of noble service sails the Chesapeake for the last time joined by Monroe and Vigilant to be decommissioned. I might be taking a bit of creative license but hey I like the idea of the small model with a bit of wear and tear (even though she was fully renovated in 1819) while the bigger ships can show a level of transition to their designs giving me a lot to work with as far as model building I can work with different style bulwarks, alternate detailing's rather than just build the same boat in 3 sizes. I also did my best to make a chart of the various revenue cutter built around the time of Doughty's design 1815-1830 before the Morris/Taney class took over. I wanted to do my best guess regarding what ships were what tonnages since info is sketchy at best. What I am seeing is that they pretty much were in charge of defending piracy in several areas the Chesapeake Bay Maryland/Virginia, the St Mary's Savannah Georgia, the Charleston South Carolina, the New Orleans area and then Northern ports of Maine, Rhode Island, New Haven and New York. There were about 15 names recorded. The northern ships while based off the doughty design, they all had odd measurements slightly larger than the official draughts. The Alert, Search, Detector and Eagle, were all used in northern waters so these names were crossed off my list for what I could name my model's since their dimensions suggest they were their own variation on the class. Also I may one day build more famous ships named Eagle so wanted something more unique. Next were the ships furthest south. The Louisiana, Alabama and Florida. We know the first 2 were the 52 ton design and Florida likely the 79 ton however I just didn't like the idea of naming ships after states and wanted names very unique to the revenue cutter service. That leaves 7 names to choose from. The Surprise and Dallas both 52 tons according to the official records anyway (could maybe be 79 tons). Surprise's draught was apparently too deep for the Charleston and was transferred to Chesapeake Bay but sounds like she wasn't used and sold after 2 uneventful years. The Dallas had a much more eventful history fighting pirates and was stationed in the St Mary's along with Crawford a 79 tonner. That said both ships wouldn't have served long together since Dallas's career ended in 1821 same year Crawford started. I have Gallatin marked as a 31 ton ship. This is guesswork however if the Surprise was too heavy for her station at Charleston and if the records of her being 52 tons is accurate then I'm simply assuming Gallatin was a smaller ship than Surprise. Y'all still with me? So this brings us to Active, Monroe and Vigillant. We know Active was 38 tons. We also know she was purchased in Baltimore and while Irving states she wasn't based off of Doughty's design, Chapelle makes the argument they she very well may have (he calls her the Alert but he mentions a 38 ton ship so I think he just confused the names or the official record changed). At any rate I'm going to assume that a small 1 gun Baltimore clipper style ship built in those days probably looked so similar that the design will work fine as the Active. As the ship had a very busy life (vs the Surprise or Gallatin which did nothing noteworthy), I like the idea of building a model with an interesting history. As Vigilant was reportedly twice the size her being a 79 ton design seems logical. Monroe has very little information but seeming that 52 ton ships were the most common built I imagine she was a mid sized design. So there it is hope that sounds exciting. More updates shortly!

I agree. Ultimately I feel these old kits tend to have alot of historical details wrong some are educated guesses but we know so much more now via the internet sharing of information. Also and I will get to this in another post but im realizing that these doughty cutters were highly modifiable. They probably started out in 1815 looking pretty much like the builder plans however by 1825 they likely had changed quite a bit looking closely like the Morris/Taney class with built up bulwarks and increased armament. I have a chart on this I will post tomorrow. BTW this is what I did tonight. Made a boxwood grating using Chucks Syren kit. Discovered using a glass nail filer to remove the burned part from the laser. It worked amazing check it out!

Then we have the cabin itself. The finished piece will have a thinner cover. You can see I took the shape directly out of the old Italian kit plans, that said I am wondering if the back should be widened a bit? Maybe a bit less triangular? Also might move the top skylight window back a bit feels close to the edge? Also I'm not liking the flat skylight I'm thinking the sloped roof was probably how it was done? Also wondering how the edge of the cabin roof should be finished. I imagine historically it would have a frame. The top is supposed to be planked like the deck so itll have holly planks, maybe a cherry frame boarder? If that's the case then widening won't be necessary. Any thoughts or opinions, comments are always appreciated.

Here's a neat pic of the rudder. The top will eventually be rounded and the edge tapered. Added the beak which is a separate piece now.

Hi everyone! So going to add a few updates over the course of this weekend regarding a few different topics but first I thought I'd show more close ups of the laser parts I made. Nothing is glued together yet just fitted on the hull to see what worked and what didn't. In these pics you can see the keel and cabin are still basswood so I could gauge how they fit together and will be replaced after planking. Overall I am very happy with the margin plank in holly and the waterway in cherry also the cannon carriage parts they really worked out amazing! The stern (again just laying on the deck flat for now) looks pretty good too I am wondering if those cleats are too thick though?

They have corrective surgery for that

Sure thing! Ive taken a break on this one in order to finish the revenue cutter but will return to her once thats done and happy to help.

Neat. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to whether the detailing was wood carving maybe some metal? And what the coloring may have been?

Im curious did wasp have similar detailing? And for that manner other small ships like Syren Argus and ahem Frolick... Or was Hornet decorated more than usual?

And here you can see the final image of the rudder design and how it all comes together with the keel.

And a close up of the cannon mount.

Hi everyone! So after a long hiatus I am back and delighted to show you all what Ive been up to. Here below are the laser parts I recently made for the revenie cutter. A few are doubled up so to have a spare in case of breakage (or sometimes the lasering has a flaw). Took me awhile to get all the parts just right. Also had a busy month doing performance art with some of ny nyc friends. Happy to be back and buildings once more!

Consequently Talos ive been looking at the stern Chapelle has for the improved 1799 74 gun ship and thinking that most likely the United States looked similar at her launching. So going to try and modify the image to the Connie plan should lead to an interesting result.:)

Ahhh be safe my friend!!

Hi Glenn, regarding Congress the 1799 ship might be a challenge to build as much detailing of the ship was never recorded and since she fought in no battles and therefore there are no contemporary depictions of her in battle and only one outboard profile. She had more or less a mundane existence was considered slow and left to rot after 1824. However if I were to ever consider building her I would first use what resources did exist and go from there. I would ask myself first what era would I want to build her as these ships changed over time. If at launching then I would use the profile plan of the Constellation class and stay as close to it as possible. If 1812 era then go off the outboard profile (see below). If 1824 well I would assume she may have appeared something similar to how Constellation did after her modernization, though I am unsure if Congress got such a renovation. At launching the Constellation class had 7 stern windows which then became 5 when the two nearest the quarter galleries were sealed. By the last refit they had 3 windows like Constitution does today and the detailing had less carvings and more general stuff like stars, wreaths, eagles etc. The exterior color changed as well from ochre to yellow to the white stripe and the figureheads were replaced with billetheads. If I wanted to build such a model I would have to make a lot of guesses and use what is known about Constellation (see Constellation images) and then follow a similar style but imagine detailing for Congress. I am unsure if a record of her original carvings was recorded, frolick are you aware of any? What I do know is that Rush wanted the representation of the "Goddess of Wisdom." So I imagine that was her figurehead? America is different, there are models of America in existence to my knowledge anyways. I'd go hunt them down and see what the model makers did and do something similar. There are pics of such a model in this link. http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/7707-american-ship-collection-with-plans/ Good luck!

Oooh sounds like a good one thank you will hunt it down

Ha well thats just comon sense right there

Its much better than what I had thank you. Alot of this is tracking down the original source material. Then seeing what the original painter had in mind and ascern the details of these ships. Feels like doing history backwards Ive already come to new understandings regarding frigate decorations which is pretty neat. Now just need to see if I can find a larger version of the Brandywine painting with John Adams off Malta 1832.

So wondering if anyone is aware of a better quality version of this image? It's the 1823 Mediterranean squadron which includes North Carolina, Constitution, Brandywine (again) and Erie. In the image I have, you can see Connie appears to have a stern which looks at least somewhat like the model they have at the museum (can't really tell with the detail being so grainy). Brandywine has the characteristic "m" shape. Also is there a record as to when Connie got fitted for 3 stern chasers?

Hmm I was assuming that was the 1797 ship but perhaps that's the 1853 sloop then.

So I found this little nugget in the library of Congress. Looks like Constellation before her being town down and "rebuilt" While there are no stern detailing per se (probably removed or painted black). What we do see is the overall shape which coincides with the painting of her from 1825 as well as follows the overall shape of the Potomac/Java stern. Looking at all these I'm seeing a few basic patterns emerging. 1. the ships tended to have some sort of star like ornament by the quarter galleries. 2. They has some sort of pillars or carvery in between windows (Guerriere had them closer to the middle window it seems, while Constellation had them further out. 3. There was an outer thicker moulding which curved and ran through the upper gun ports and a thinner inner moulding which was usually painted white and tended to have some decoration. It makes Constitution seem somewhat of an enigma with her 3 windows much closer together and only two thin white mouldings which don't intersect the stern chase ports. It also makes me wonder what the moulding for United States looked like looking at the outboard profile. But overall this seems like the style of ships from 1815 until the 1840's when the Congress/Raritan/Jamestown type with the large crest-like moulding took over.

http://www.nyhistory.org/exhibit/capture-algerian-frigate-mashuda-american-squadron-under-command-commodore-stephen-decatur Found the large version of the image. Its in New York I think ill go check it out The Dale class were neat little ships sorta like the navy going back to the peacock class after a series of mediocre larger sloops.