CaptArmstrong

Looking just wonderful!  Having a plan that is so clearly and accurately the standard lines of the class as they were meant to be is really a treasure!  
 
I do like what you've done with the decorations on your plan, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what the design of the stern was as ordered! Though if you've seen any other such carving plans for french vessels, I'm sure you're aware that it may turn out to be more of a guideline to be interpreted by the builders at the yard rather than an exact match to the dimensions of the ship. 

Looking just wonderful!  Having a plan that is so clearly and accurately the standard lines of the class as they were meant to be is really a treasure!  
 
I do like what you've done with the decorations on your plan, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what the design of the stern was as ordered! Though if you've seen any other such carving plans for french vessels, I'm sure you're aware that it may turn out to be more of a guideline to be interpreted by the builders at the yard rather than an exact match to the dimensions of the ship. 

Looking just wonderful!  Having a plan that is so clearly and accurately the standard lines of the class as they were meant to be is really a treasure!  
 
I do like what you've done with the decorations on your plan, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what the design of the stern was as ordered! Though if you've seen any other such carving plans for french vessels, I'm sure you're aware that it may turn out to be more of a guideline to be interpreted by the builders at the yard rather than an exact match to the dimensions of the ship. 

My computer programmer son is trying to show me how to post pics.  These are some ideas for the Philly's taffrail I am playing with.  I think I spotted a Lion Head on the right side and either a Griffon or a Hydra on the left side.  I may be seeing thing?  I like the one with the Griffon-

This was a peoples's victory too. In 1811, before the war had been declared, the Frigate Guerriere, then under the command of a "Captain Skeen", made a really bad name for himself, and for the frigate, by repeatedly impressing American  sailors off our coast. When Guerriere sailed brazenly into New York harbour and took Americans out of a merchant brig, to the horror of the citizens of the port, President Madison ordered Commodore John Rogers, in the Frigate President, to sea. Rogers had instructions to rescue all captive Americans from the Guerriere, by force, if necessary. Rogers instead caught up with a 22-gun British frigate-built corvette, a captured dutch prize called the 'Lil Belt' or 'Little Belt'. It was on a moonless night, and Commodore Rogers mistakenly thought that Lil Belt was the much larger Guerriere, and that she was much farther away. A brief one-sided battle ensued, resulting in the quick defeat of the smashed British corvette, in what historians today called the "President/Little Belt Affair."
 
When Captain Skeen heard of this battle, he publicly mocked Commodore Rogers for his mistake, by calling him "haughty", and having the words "Not The Little Belt" painted on the Guerriere's foretop sail, inviting Rogers to come out and fight him. Commodore Rogers responded by putting back out to sea, and hoisting a large motto-flag from his mainmast head proclaiming, "Here is the Haughty President, How do you like her?" The two never met, but the public was thirsty specifically for Guerriere's blood. That the President was much more powerful than even the Constitution didn't impress Captain Skeen.
 
The Guerriere also was in the four ship squadron that chased the Constitution for three days in 1812 off New Jersey. The then Captain Dacres repeatedly fired his broadsides at Hull's frigate during the "great chase". Dacres wasn't overly concerned with 'fairness' and 'equal force' at that time either ... not until, of course, Hull later caught him alone.
 
 
 
 

Interestingly, Teddy Roosevelt wrote his famous 'The Naval War of 1812' solely to refute James's Ameri-phobic history. But James's facts are mostly spot on, it's his opinions which need caution.
 
Dr. David Long, in his biography of Captain David Porter of the Essex, noted that in 1812, Great Britain possessed more than twice as many warships in commission, as the US possessed naval cannon!

William James had his own axe to grind having been caught and detained in the conflict of 1812, he set out to prove that no British ship had been captured by an American ship of similar force, as the extract provided by Frolic labours.  James's stated intent was to provide an impartial view, based on the facts he could uncover, however given the objective of his work in recounting the 1812 conflict this in itself renders his impartiality suspect and his bias creeps in to his works.  
 
Given the prize money associated with rewarding successful captures many captains, of all nations, had a tendency to over-state the size, prowesss and head-count of the prize as this added to their personal glory and rewards. As Mark says war isn't fair, and neither are the Press who picked up on and propagated the exaggeration of the size of the Guerriere and other captures which is what initially motivated James whilst detained in the US.  Nice to see in 200 years at least the Press have remained consistent (on both sides of the pond). 

Yes, James wrote of it extensively! Glad someone is interested! 
 
" On the 25th of November, 1812, the two new French 40-gun frigates Arethuse, Commodore Pierre-Fran^ois-Henry-Etienne Uouvet, and Eubis, Captain Louis- Frangois Ollivier, sailed from Nantes on a cruise. In January these two frigates, accompa- nied by a Portuguese prize-ship, the Serra, steered for the coast of Africa, and on the 27th, when off Tamara, one of the Isles de Los, the Eubis, who was ahead, discovered and chased a brig, which was the British gun-brig Daring, Lieutenant William E. Pascoe. The latter, when at a great distance, taking the Eubis for an English frigate, sent his master in a boat to board her. On approaching near, the boat discovered her mistake and en- deavoured to make off, but was captured. The Daring was now aware of her perilous situation, and crowded sail for Tamara, followed by the Eubis ; whom the lightness of the breeze de- layed so much, that the brig succeeded in running on shore and her crew in setting her on fire. The two French frigates, at 6 P.M., came to an anchor in the road of Isle de Los. Here Captain Bouvet learnt, that Sierra Leone was the rendezvous of two British frigates and several sloops-of-war ; that one of the former had recently quitted the coast, and that the remaining frigate, reported to him as larger and stronger than either of his own, still lay at anchor in the river. In the course of six days, the French commodore refitted his chips, and supplied them with water and provisions for six months. Having also sent to Sierra Leone to exchange the few prisoners in his possession, consisting, besides the boat's crew of the Daring, of the master and crew of a merchantman he had taken, Captain Bouvet, on the 4th, weighed and made sail with his two frigates. At 4 P.M. the Arethuse, who was ahead, struck on a coral bank, but forcing all sail, got off immediately, with no greater damage than the loss of her rudder. The two frigates then re-anchored, but driving in a gale of wind, were obliged, at 3 A.M. on the 5th, to get under sail ; the Arethuse contriving a temporary rudder while her own was repairing. At daylight, when the gale had abated, the Arethuse found herself lying becalmed within four leagues north-east of 'the island of Tamara; and Captain Bouvet was surprised to dis- cover his consort still among the islands, covered with signals, which the distance precluded him from making out, but which were judged to be of melancholy presage. At 8 A.M. the Are- thuse anchored in 12 fathoms. At 11 A.M. the Rubis was ob- served to fire several guns, and at noon to have the signal flying, that the pumps were insufficient to free her. Captain Bouvet immediately sent his longboat with two pumps; but at 2 A.M. on the 6th the officer returned, with information that the Eubis had struck on the rocks, and that her crew were removing to the Portuguese ship. At daylight, by which time she had repaired and reshipped her rudder, the Arethuse discovered a large ship to windward. This was the British 38-gun frigate Amelia, Captain the Hon. Frederick Paul Irby, from Sierra Leone. It was at 3 h. 30 m. P.M. on the 29th of January, that Lieu- tenant Pascoe and a part of his crew joined the Amelia, then moored off Free Town, Sierra Leone, bringing information, that he had left " three French frigates " at anchor in Isle de Los road.
 
The Amelia began immediately to bend sails and clear for action, and in the evening was joined by the Hawk mer- chant-schooner, with some more of the Daring's men. On the morning of the 30th the Amelia's launch-carronade was put on board the Hawk, and Lieutenant Pascoe, having volunteered, was despatched in her to reconnoitre the French ships. On the 2nd of February, at noon, Lieutenant Pascoe returned, with intelligence of the names of the two French frigates and their prize ; and also of Captain Bouvet's intention to proceed immediately to sea, to intercept the British homeward-bound trade. On the 3rd, at 8 A.M., the cartel-cutter, noticed as having been despatched by Captain Bouvet, arrived with prisoners, in- cluding the crew of the Daring's boat : and at 10 h. 30 m. the Amelia, with a debilitated crew, for whose recovery she was about to proceed to England, got under way, and made sail, against a west-south-west wind, for the Isles de Los, in the hope of falling in with some British cruiser that might render the match more equal, and prevent the two French frigates from molesting several merchant-vessels that were daily expected at Sierra Leone. On the 5th, at 8 A.M., the Amelia got a sight of Isle do Los : and at 8 P.M., when standing to the north-east, and then distant three leagues west-north-west of Tamara, she observed a strange sail in the north-east, or right ahead, making night- signals. Supposing this vessel to be one of the French frigates, the Amelia tacked to the westward, the wind now blowing fresh from the north-west. On the 6th, at daylight, the Amelia again tacked to the north-east, and at 9 A.M. spoke the Princess Charlotte government-schooner from Sierra Leone, the vessel that had been making signals the preceding night. At 9 h. 30 m. A.M. the French ships were observed in the north- east, at anchor off the north end of Tamara : one, the Arethuse, considerably to the northward of the other, who appeared to be unloading the prize, but was really removing into the latter her own crew. At 10 A.M. Captain Irby despatched the Princess Charlotte to Sierra Leone, with directions for any British ship-of-war that might arrive there to repair imme- diately to him. The Amelia then bore away to Tamara to re- connoitre the enemy.
 
At 2 h. 30 m. P.M. the two French frigates were observed to interchange signals ; and at 3 h. 20m. the Arethuse weighed and made sail on the starboard tack, with a moderate breeze at south-south-west. The Amelia thereupon shortened sail, and hauled to the wind on the same tack as the Arethuse. In a few minutes the latter tacked to the westward, to avoid a shoal, and the Amelia did the same. At 6 P.M. the Arethuse bore from the Amelia north-north-east distant six miles ; at which time the Eubis, as supposed, but probably the Serra, was observed to have her topsails hoisted. At 6 h. 30 m. P.M. the north end of Tamara bore from the Amelia east- south-east distant five leagues. At 8 P.M. the Amelia lost sight of the Arethuse ; and at 8 h. 30 in., in order to keep oft' shore during the night, Captain Irby tacked to the south-south-west, with the wind from the westward. At 6 h. 45 m. A.M. on the 7th the Amelia discovered the Arethuse about eight miles off in the south-east ; but a calm, which came on at 8 A.M., kept both frigates stationary. At noon a light breeze sprang up from the west-north-west : where- upon the Arethuse stood towards the Amelia, on the larboard tack, under all sail ; the latter making sail also, in the hope to draw the Arethuse from her consort, still supposed to be in a condition to follow and assist her. At 5 P.M., finding the wind beginning to fall, and conceiving that he had drawn the Arethuse to a sufficient distance from her consort, Captain Irby shortened sail, wore round, and, running tmder his three topsails with the wind on the starboard-quarter, steered to pass, and then to cross the stern of, the Arethuse ; who was standing, under the same sail, close hauled on the lar- board tack. To avoid being thus raked, Captain Bouvet. at 7 h. 20 m. P.M., tacked to the south-west, and hoisted his colours ; as the Amelia previously had hers. It was now a fine moonlight night, with the wind very moderate, and the sea nearly as smooth as a millporid. At 7 h. 45 m. P.M., just as the Amelia had arrived within pistol-shot upon her starboard or weather-bow, the Arethuse opened her fire, which was imme- diately returned. After about three broadsides had been ex- changed, the maintopsail of the Amelia, in consequence of the braces having been shot away, fell aback. Owing to this acci- dent, instead of crossing her opponent as she intended, the Amelia fell on board of her ; the jib-boom of the Arethuse carrying away the Amelia's jib and stay, and the French ship's bumpkin or anchor-fluke, part of the British ship's larboard forecastle barricade.
 
The Arethuse now opened a heavy fire of musketry from her tops and mast-heads, and threw several hand-grenades upon the Amelia's decks, hoping, in the confusion caused by such com- bustibles, to succeed in an attempt to board ; for which purpose several of the Arethuse' s men had stationed themselves in her fore-rigging. A man was now seen on the spritsail-yard of the Arethuse, making strenuous efforts to get on board the Amelia. Scarcely had the poor fellow called out, "For God's sake, don't fire, I am not armed !" when a musket-ball from a British marine dropped him in the water. It was afterwards ascertained, that one of the crew of the Arethuse, a Ham- burgher, had formerly belonged to the Amelia, having been taken out of one of her prizes on the coast of Spain, and forced to enter on board the French frigate. It appears that the man was so desirous to get back to his ship, that he requested a settler at the Isle de Los to secrete him till an opportunity offered of his reaching Sierra Leone. The probability therefore is, that the rnan so shot, while upon the spritsail-yard of the Arethuse, was the unfortunate Hamburgher.
 
Finding that, owing in a great degree to the steady and well- directed fire kept up by the Amelia's marines, her object could not be accomplished, the Arethuse threw all aback and dropped clear. In doing this, her spritsail-yard knocked Lieutenant William Eeeve, who had been invalided from the Kangaroo sloop, from the break of the forecastle into the waist. Setting her maintopgallant and middle staysails (her jib for the time being disabled), the Amelia endeavoured again to get her head towards the bow of the Arethuse. The Amelia at length did so, but, in attempting a second time to cross her antagonist, a second time fell on board of her ; and the two ships now swang close alongside, the muzzles of their guns almost touching. This was at about 9 h. 15 m. P.M., and a scene of great mutual slaughter ensued. The two crews snatched the spunges out of each other's hands through the portholes, and cut at one another with the broadsword. The Amelia's men now attempted to lash the two frigates together, but were unable, on account of the heavy fire of musketry kept up from the Arethuse's decks and tops, a fire that soon nearly cleared the Amelia's quarter-deck of both officers and men. Among those who fell on the occasion were the first and second lieutenants (John James Bates and John Pope), and a lieutenant of marines. Captain Irby was also severely wounded, and obliged to leave the deck to the command of the third-lieutenant, George Wells; who, shortly afterwards, was killed at his post, and Mr. Anthony De Mayne, the master, took the command. The mutual concussion of the guns at length forced the two frigates apart ; and, in the almost calm state of the weather, they gradually receded from each other, with, however, their broad- sides still mutually bearing, until 11 h. 20 m. P.M. ; when both combatants, being out of gun-shot, ceased firing. Each cap- tain thus describes this crisis. Captain Irby says: "When she (the Arethuse) bore up, having the advantage of being able to do so, leaving us in an ungovernable state, &c." Captain J5ouvet says : "At eleven o'clock the fire ceased on both sides ; \ve were no longer within fair gun-shot, and the enemy, crowding sail, abandoned to us the field of battle." " A onze lieures, le feu cessa de part et d'autre ; nous n'etions plus a bonne port^e, et 1'ermemi se coiivrit de voiles, nous abandonnant le champ de battaille." 1
 
The damages of the Amelia, although, chiefly on account of the smooth state of the sea, they did not include a single fallen spar, were very serious ; the frigate's masts and yards being all badly wounded, her rigging of every sort cut to pieces, and her hull much shattered. But her loss of men will best show how much the Amelia had suffered. Of her proper crew of 265 men, and 30 (including, as if 18 were not already enough, 12 esta- blished supernumerary) boys, and her 54 supernumerary men and boys, composed chiefly of the Daring's crew, the Amelia and her three lieutenants (already named), second-lieutenant of marines (Robert G. Grainger), Lieutenant Pascoe, late com- mander of the Daring, one midshipman (Charles Kennicott), the purser of the Thais (John Bogue, of his second wound), 29 sea- men, seven marines, and three boys killed, her captain (severely). Lieutenant Reeve, invalided from the Kangaroo sloop, the master (already named), first-lieutenant of marines (John Simpson), purser (John Collman), boatswain (John Parkinson, dangerously), one master's mate (Edward Eobinson), four mid- shipmen (George Albert Rix, Thomas D. Buckle, George Thomas Gooch, and Arthur Beever), 56 seamen (two mortally), 25 marines (three mortally), and three boys wounded ; total, 51 killed and died of their wounds, and 90 wounded, dangerously, severely, and slightly. The Arethuse, as well as her opponent, left off action with her masts standing ; but they were all more or less wounded, and her rigging was much cut. Her hull must also have suf- fered considerably ; as her acknowledged loss, out of a crew, including the boat's crew of the Rubis, of at least 340 men and boys, amounted to 31 killed, including 11 of her officers, and 74 wounded, including nearly the whole of her remaining officers. The guns of the Amelia (late French Proserpine) were the same as those mounted by the Java, with an additional pair of 32-pounder carronades, or 48 guns in all. The guns of the Arethuse were the same, in number and caliber, as the Java mounted when captured as the French Renommee. 2 Although 1 Mon. April 29. An English translator " We were no longer in good condition. ' of Captain Bouvet's letter has rendered See Naval Chronicle, vol. xxfx., p. 385, " Nous nations plus a bonne porte'e " by 2 See vol. v., p. 290. the total of men and boys on board the Amelia would be 349, yet, it" we are to allow for the number of her men that were unable to attend their quarters, and for the feeble state of many of the remainder, among whom, including the Daring's, there were nearly 40 boys, 300 will be an ample allowance. The Arethuse has been represented to have had a crew of 375 or 380 men. but we do not believe she had a man more of her proper crew than 330 ; making, with the boat's crew of the Eubis, 340.
 
The Arethuse was the sister-frigate of the Renommee : consequently the tonnage of the Java will suffice. Here was a long and bloody action between two (taking guns and men together) nearly equal opponents, which gave a victory to neither. Each combatant withdrew exhausted from the fight ; and each, as is usual in the few cases of drawn battles that have occurred, claimed the merit of having forced the other to the measure. But it must now be clear, from the Amelia's damaged state, that Captain Bouvet was mistaken when he said, that she crowded sail to get away ; it is much more probable, as requiring no other effort than shifting the helm, that the Arethuse, as Captain Irby states, bore up. Viewing the relative effectiveness of the two crews, one de- bilitated by sickness, the other, as admitted, in the full vigour of health ; considering that, although both frigates sustained an almost unparalleled loss of officers, the captain of one of them only was obliged to give up the command: considering, also, the difference in the numerical loss, 141 and 105, a difference mainly attributable, no doubt, to the fatigued state of the Amelia's crew at the latter part of the action ; we should say, that the Arethuse, had she persevered, or could she, being to leeward, have done so, would, in all probability, have taken the British frigate. In saying this, we are far from placing every French 40-gun frigate upon a par with the Arethuse ; she was excellently manned, and was commanded by one of the best officers in the French navy. The chief part of the crew of the Arethuse may, it is true, have been conscripts, but then they were conscripts of the year 1807, and were under an officer capable, if any officer was so, of making them good seamen. With respect to Captain Irby, his critical situation, without reference to the state of his crew, must not be overlooked. The Amelia commenced, gallantly commenced, the action, under the impression that another French frigate, also equal in force to herself, was, although out of sight, at no great distance off. If, then, there was a probability of the approach of the Eubis when the action began, how must that probability have been heightened after the action had lasted three hours and a half, both ships remaining nearly stationary the whole time, and the wind, when it afterwards sprang up, drawing from the east- ward, the direction in which the Eubis had been last seen? In addition to all this, the Amelia had on board a considerable quantity of gold dust, belonging to merchants in England. Upon the whole, therefore, both frigates behaved most bravely ; and, although he had no trophy to show, each captain did more to support the character of his nation than many an officer who has been decorated with the chaplet of victory. Previously to quitting the action of the Amelia and Arethuse, we would request the boasters in the United States of America to compare the execution here done by an 18-pounder French frigate, with the best performance of one of their huge 24-pounder frigates : bearing in mind, that it was done against an opponent, not only equal to herself in force, but equally able to manoeuvre by the possession of her masts ; that it was done in a fair side- to-side action, neither frigate, during the three hours and a half's engagement, having had an opportunity to give one raking fire. It will, no doubt, also strike Commodores Decatur and Bainbridge, that, so far from constantly evading the close assaults of his antagonists, Captain Bouvet remained nearly in the same position from the commencement of the battle to its termination. Both frigates found ample employment, during the remainder of the night, in clearing the decks of the dead and wounded, and in securing their damaged masts. At daylight on the Sth they were about five miles apart, the Arethuse to the eastward of the Amelia, and both nearly becalmed. On a light breeze springing up, the Amelia, having bent a new foresail and fore- topsail, made sail before it to the southward, on her way to Madeira and England ; and the Arethuse stood back to Isle de Los, to see what had become of Captain Ollivier and his people On the morning of the 10th the Arethuse was joined by the Serra, with the late crew of the Rubis, stated then to consist of 300 men. Taking half the number on board his frigate, Captain Eouvet, with the Serra in tow, steered for France. On reaching the latitude of Madeira, however, Captain Bouvet removed every man out of the Serra, and destroyed her, as she retarded the Arethuse in her voyage. On the 18th of March, in latitude 33 30* north, longitude 40 west, the French frigate fell in with and boarded the Mercury and another cartel, having on board the surviving officers and crew of the late British frigate Java ; and on the 19th of April, after having made in the whole about 15 prizes, the Arethuse anchored in St. Malo ; as on the 22nd of the preceding month had the Amelia at Spithead. Another pair of French 40-gun frigates had been nearly the same route as the Arethuse and Eubis, but, during a two months and a half s cruise, had not encountered a single hostile vessel-of-war. The Hortense and Elbe, Captains Pierre-Nicolas Lahalle and Jules Desrostours, sailed from Bordeaux on the 7th of December, 1812 ; and steering for the coast of Africa, anchored on the 4th of January between the Bissagot islands, a little to the northward of Sierra Leone. They sailed soon after- wards, cruised a short time off the Azores, and on the 15th of February succeeded in entering Brest.

I pulled the following quotes out for those interested in HMS Java, the Constitution's second most famous opponent:
 
"The guns of the Amelia (late French Proserpine) were the same as those mounted by the Java, with an additional pair of 32-pounder carronades, or 48 guns in all. The guns of the Arethuse were the same, in number and caliber, as the Java mounted when captured as the French Renommee ... The Arethuse was the sister-frigate of the Renommee : consequently the tonnage of the Java will suffice. "

Excellent reading! Here is a wonderful painting by pocock of the fight betweent the Herbrus and l'Etoile. 
And some of the Clorinde vs Eurotas can be seen here: 
 
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/100913.html 
 
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/109997.html
 
http://artsalesindex.artinfo.com/auctions/Robert-Dodd-43103/Close-action-between-HMS-Eurotas-and-the-French-Frigate-Clorinde-1814-2000
 
these battles are also described well in the Caxton pictorial histories series volume "the victory of Seapower" from what I recall, napoleon had started a naval gunnery training program around the time of trafalgar that didn't start to pay dividends much until this time-with the unusual ferociousness of the french gunnery in these battles being a direct result of it.
 
A similarly hard fought duel from 1813  pitted the HMS Amelia vs L'Arethuse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_7_February_1813
interestingly, it saw one of the first JN Sáne designed 18pdr frigates(HMS Amelia was the ex-French Proserpine of 1785)fighting  against what was essentially the ultimate evolution of that class, the brand new arethuse. Did William James write a description of that battle? 

Excellent reading! Here is a wonderful painting by pocock of the fight betweent the Herbrus and l'Etoile. 
And some of the Clorinde vs Eurotas can be seen here: 
 
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/100913.html 
 
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/109997.html
 
http://artsalesindex.artinfo.com/auctions/Robert-Dodd-43103/Close-action-between-HMS-Eurotas-and-the-French-Frigate-Clorinde-1814-2000
 
these battles are also described well in the Caxton pictorial histories series volume "the victory of Seapower" from what I recall, napoleon had started a naval gunnery training program around the time of trafalgar that didn't start to pay dividends much until this time-with the unusual ferociousness of the french gunnery in these battles being a direct result of it.
 
A similarly hard fought duel from 1813  pitted the HMS Amelia vs L'Arethuse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_7_February_1813
interestingly, it saw one of the first JN Sáne designed 18pdr frigates(HMS Amelia was the ex-French Proserpine of 1785)fighting  against what was essentially the ultimate evolution of that class, the brand new arethuse. Did William James write a description of that battle? 

Excellent reading! Here is a wonderful painting by pocock of the fight betweent the Herbrus and l'Etoile. 
And some of the Clorinde vs Eurotas can be seen here: 
 
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/100913.html 
 
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/109997.html
 
http://artsalesindex.artinfo.com/auctions/Robert-Dodd-43103/Close-action-between-HMS-Eurotas-and-the-French-Frigate-Clorinde-1814-2000
 
these battles are also described well in the Caxton pictorial histories series volume "the victory of Seapower" from what I recall, napoleon had started a naval gunnery training program around the time of trafalgar that didn't start to pay dividends much until this time-with the unusual ferociousness of the french gunnery in these battles being a direct result of it.
 
A similarly hard fought duel from 1813  pitted the HMS Amelia vs L'Arethuse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_7_February_1813
interestingly, it saw one of the first JN Sáne designed 18pdr frigates(HMS Amelia was the ex-French Proserpine of 1785)fighting  against what was essentially the ultimate evolution of that class, the brand new arethuse. Did William James write a description of that battle? 

Excellent reading! Here is a wonderful painting by pocock of the fight betweent the Herbrus and l'Etoile. 
And some of the Clorinde vs Eurotas can be seen here: 
 
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/100913.html 
 
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/109997.html
 
http://artsalesindex.artinfo.com/auctions/Robert-Dodd-43103/Close-action-between-HMS-Eurotas-and-the-French-Frigate-Clorinde-1814-2000
 
these battles are also described well in the Caxton pictorial histories series volume "the victory of Seapower" from what I recall, napoleon had started a naval gunnery training program around the time of trafalgar that didn't start to pay dividends much until this time-with the unusual ferociousness of the french gunnery in these battles being a direct result of it.
 
A similarly hard fought duel from 1813  pitted the HMS Amelia vs L'Arethuse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_7_February_1813
interestingly, it saw one of the first JN Sáne designed 18pdr frigates(HMS Amelia was the ex-French Proserpine of 1785)fighting  against what was essentially the ultimate evolution of that class, the brand new arethuse. Did William James write a description of that battle? 

I've seen a similar amount of detail in decoration on the plans of captured privateers in the NMM archives (Such as the brig Swift and corvette Rattlesnake)
http://forum.game-labs.net/uploads/monthly_05_2016/post-22490-0-12473700-1464299690.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6d/f4/94/6df494aa752c87b5eebac9dd9fbf4862.jpg
http://www.modelshipbuilder.com/e107_files/public/1388514821_4270_FT0__sloop_swift_1783_.jpg
The Royal navy were meticulous with accuracy on as captured plans, even if they modified the ship greatly right after taking the lines. I'd say that its still is significantly less decoration than on a contemporary Royal or Continental Navy Frigate, for example (see the Confederacy https://modelshipworld.com/uploads/gallery/album_771/med_gallery_31_771_153925.jpg or Minerva http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66278.html, for example) but this level of decoration more or less disappeared on the privateers (french and American) of the 1790s through 1815. 

I've seen a similar amount of detail in decoration on the plans of captured privateers in the NMM archives (Such as the brig Swift and corvette Rattlesnake)
http://forum.game-labs.net/uploads/monthly_05_2016/post-22490-0-12473700-1464299690.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6d/f4/94/6df494aa752c87b5eebac9dd9fbf4862.jpg
http://www.modelshipbuilder.com/e107_files/public/1388514821_4270_FT0__sloop_swift_1783_.jpg
The Royal navy were meticulous with accuracy on as captured plans, even if they modified the ship greatly right after taking the lines. I'd say that its still is significantly less decoration than on a contemporary Royal or Continental Navy Frigate, for example (see the Confederacy https://modelshipworld.com/uploads/gallery/album_771/med_gallery_31_771_153925.jpg or Minerva http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66278.html, for example) but this level of decoration more or less disappeared on the privateers (french and American) of the 1790s through 1815. 

A wonderful find of those carvings! perhaps they were in the divide between quarter gallery and hull on the transom or at each edge of the transom? 
 

 
And to me the dress looks more Greek/Byzantine than Native, with Pteruges on the shoulders and skirt of a breastplate. With Philadelphia being a greek word It makes more sense to me, but I'm not sure what the record on her carvings indicates. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pteruges
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/32/1f/ae/321fae38bb98cace5d4fd3bbb3540f65.jpg
https://larsbrownworth.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Byzarmy.jpg
 
Are there any other photos of the recovered taffrail pieces out there? Those seem very well preserved, its tempting to think of what might have been recovered if the wreck had been uncovered in the modern day with better technology.
 
 

I've always found it interesting how small a world it was in American shipbuilding back then.   
The US Brigs Niagara and Lawrence were built by Noah Brown.  His brother Adam stayed back in New York City to assist in sending men and materials.
In 1806 Henry Eckford, who lived in NYC but had also lived Kingston, ON, was invited by Christian Bergh to assist in building the US Brig Oneida on Lake Ontario
Commodore Isaac Chauncey had been master of John Jacob Astor's Henry Eckford-built ship Beaver in 1806–1807 and had supervised Eckford & Beebe's construction of US Navy gunboats in 1808.
Chauncey visited New York City in the first week of September 1812 to meet with Eckford and his fellow shipbuilders Christian Bergh and Adam and Noah Brown about the problem of building a fleet of warships on Lake Ontario.  The Browns also agreed to head north to design and build Chauncey's fleet, while Bergh agreed to remain in New York City and oversee the transportation of men and material north to Lake Ontario.
In December 1812 Henry Eckford joined Chauncey in an inspection tour of American military and shipyard facilities on the Great Lakes and, finding the yards on Lake Erie at Erie, Pennsylvania, and Black Rock, New York, struggling, made suggestions to their staffs on how to improve their shipbuilding efforts. Chauncey wrote to Noah Brown to hurry north from New York City and take charge at Erie, which Brown did in February 1813 while his brother Adam remained in New York City to work with Christian Bergh in ensuring that Noah received the men and supplies he needed.
(side bar)  Jacob Aaron Westervelt was an apprentice to Christian Bergh.  Jacob Aaron Westervelt (January 20, 1800 – February 21, 1879) was a renowned and prolific shipbuilder who constructed 247 vessels[2]of all descriptions during his career of over 50 years. From 1853 until 1855 he was Mayor of New York City
Christian Bergh had a NYC shipyard from 1817 to 1836.  Among several notable craft, Bergh completed the build of he US Frigate President.  I’ve been looking at Bergh’s merchant ship on page 180 of Howard Chapelle’s The Search for Speed Under Sail 1700-1855 as an addition to my build list.  And now, there is a connection to the Niagara.
Just read this from above source, “The Brown brothers appear to have designed the vessels they built, for on 6 September 1819 the Navy Board wrote to ask for the plans of all the naval vessels they had built on the Great Lakes.” P.229
 
 

A wonderful find of those carvings! perhaps they were in the divide between quarter gallery and hull on the transom or at each edge of the transom? 
 

 
And to me the dress looks more Greek/Byzantine than Native, with Pteruges on the shoulders and skirt of a breastplate. With Philadelphia being a greek word It makes more sense to me, but I'm not sure what the record on her carvings indicates. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pteruges
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/32/1f/ae/321fae38bb98cace5d4fd3bbb3540f65.jpg
https://larsbrownworth.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Byzarmy.jpg
 
Are there any other photos of the recovered taffrail pieces out there? Those seem very well preserved, its tempting to think of what might have been recovered if the wreck had been uncovered in the modern day with better technology.
 
 

On the original picture I have there isn't anything between  the figures, there is a round hole not centered, looks like a shot hole(?).  It seems the fit the arch over the windows on the stern, at least by the wood cut of the Philadelphia entering Tetuan,Morocco.  I need to learn how to post pictures, this old dog needs to learn new tricks.
Update: was able to post a picture of different ideas for the taffrail, any opinions?:

I agree with CaptArmstrong. It is very reminiscent of the late Roman/early Byzantine armour, which itself harked back to ancient Greece. The 'muscled' breastplate and the pteruges on the upper sleeves etc, and even the buskins could have come straight from the Barberini ivory (below).
 
 

 
 
And rather than an accurate portrayal,  this would be an 18th century person's idea of what the ancient Greeks wore.

A small clarification of the seal, in case anybody was wondering why the dexter (Latin for right-hand) figure is on the left and the sinister (Latin for left-hand) figure is on the right, instead of the other way around. Seal descriptions come from the mediaeval art of heraldry - the study, rules and blazoning (describing in heraldic technical terms) of a person's coat of arms.
 
The blazon relates first and foremost to the design on the shield, and describes the figures and designs from the viewpoint of the person holding the shield, not the viewer. So from the viewer's point of view, sinister is on the right and dexter is on the left . . . It's confusing, but that's the way it's been ever since heraldry began, and there's nothing we can do about it but learn to live with it. (A bit like pushing the tiller to port when you want to go to starboard . . .).
 
As it's a seal rather than a coat of arms, I doubt that colours would be specified. I've looked at google images, and they show the background (field in heraldic terminology) as either white (argent) or blue (azure).
 
With this as a basis, and choosing a white background, the blazon would go something like this -
 
"Argent, a windmill's sails in saltire [i.e. as a diagonal cross] proper [in its natural colours].
 
In chief and base [top and bottom] a beaver statant [standing] or possibly couchant  [lying down, but with head raised - there's no heraldic term for crouching, which is what these beavers appear to be doing] proper .
 
In dexter and sinister a barrel proper [note that if the barrels were lying on their sides they would be called tuns.]
 
For a crest, an eagle displayed [standing facing the viewer with its wings spread and head turned to the right - if it was facing the other way I think it would be described as regardant (looking backwards), or perhaps just "facing sinister"].
 
For supporters, dexter a sailor holding a plummet in his dexter hand, sinister, a native American (or whatever the correct heraldic term may be) holding a bow in his sinister hand, both upon a laurel branch in fess [horizontal] above the date 1625.
 
Motto "sigillum civitatis novi eboraci" 
 
The whole within a laurel wreath proper."
 
I've probably committed all kinds of heraldic blunders in this blazon, but it's not too far from how it should be.
 
As you can see, it's a very technical and precise subject. The blazon is supposed to be phrased in such a way that anybody should be able to produce a picture of  the coat of arms (or achievement) just from reading it.
 
Perhaps not too germane to the discussion, but it's a subject I find fascinating.
 
Steven
 
 

Relating to the discussion of Philadelphia's taffrail, I came across these pictures of a pair of her salvaged carvings the other day.
 

Indeed I've thought the same, with the french favoring the horseshoe shape (right) and the British separated quarter galleries (left)

But frolick's description hardly sounds inaccurate, do you recall if the article mentioned anything more specific than 'stern' to clarify if they were discussing the transom shape or the carvings? 

It was a short reference from a NY newspaper at the time of the New York's launch.  I never got to the NY library to search for more information in their newspaper archives.  The library person told me this was all he found at the time, but a search might find more, and I could do it.  May be someday?

Indeed I've thought the same, with the french favoring the horseshoe shape (right) and the British separated quarter galleries (left)

But frolick's description hardly sounds inaccurate, do you recall if the article mentioned anything more specific than 'stern' to clarify if they were discussing the transom shape or the carvings?