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You're right, the first SR was pierced to carry 110 guns, but as Marc stated, the number of guns did vary during his career.

It depends on what you call a wrong guess. Is a choice concerning a ship a wrong guess because it never existed on this particular ship, or is a wrong guess a choice that never existed that way on any comparable ship at this time ? Concerning the St Philippe, M. Lemineur says that he had no information concerning the decoration of the railing sheer, so he had to compose one being inspired by what was in use at this time. I would not call it a wrong guess, you just have to be aware of this particular point and you can enjoy a credible model of what the SP should looked like. The 74 gunship of Jean Boudriot is also an invention, I don't remember all the details but I believe he took inspiration of a particular model in a museum that was not representative of all the 74 gunships of the time. (Anyway, he didn't give his 74 a name, so it remains generic). Concerning l'Ambitieux, he made some very weird choices with the decoration. The fact is you will always have more trustable sources with a ship from the 18th century than with a ship of the 17th. And there are certainly a huge amount of wrong guesses with the Soleil Royal.

That's exactly my point ! 👍

Hello Bill ! It's a bit complicated, but yes, the Tanneron model is false. Don't get me wrong, my own model will be false too, but it's not so bad. Concerning the Tanneron it's complicated because we don't know his documentation. We are not sure his model is the Foudroyant that became SR n°2, it's an assumption by M. Lemineur (taken up by Michel Saunier) based on a few good arguments. First, at the time of the firts SR, the biggest width of the stern was at the second deck (just like the Berain drawing of the stern) when after 1673 the biggest width was under the second deck, making the stern look narrow. Second, we know that the second SR was supposed to have the same decoration than the first one. So, M. Lemineur supposes that Tanneron adapted the Berain drawing to the supposed proportions of the second SR (it makes a lot of "supposing" ) Third, the Tanneron model is pierced with 14 gunports at first deck, so is supposed to be the second SR, when the first SR was pierced at 16. So, it's a good point of view to say that the Tanneron model is certainly a good representation of what SR n°2 should have been, but it's not THE SR n°2. Because, and it's only my point of view. We know that Tanneron was told to build a model of the first SR. So he made the galleries with open balconies when the second SR should have had closed side galleries. He used as a reference the work of admiral E. Paris "Souvenirs de marine conservés", which are false in many ways. (he confused the Royal Louis with the Louis XV) As an example the last two gunports of the first deck that are lower than the others. The last gunport of the first deck pierced in the low side gallery is also suspect. The side galleries are a big problem. It does exist two different drawings of them, and none proved to be exact. The first, that I chose, has a lot of problems: a very strange architecture of the first stern balcony and a too long "voute d'arcasse". The decoration is not quite the same than the Berain drawing of the stern. But, well, in my opinion it does exist, so we have to deal with it, and it is a drawing from the 17th century, stated as "anonymous, copy from Berain". Who stated this as a copy from Berain ? We don't know. Was this drawing a version of the first decoration by Lebrun before Berain remade it ? Is this the Berain version despite all the arguments ? The question will remain. It is also hard to tell if this is open balcony or closed galleries. I readily admit that my only arguments to use it are "it does exist so I had to deal with it" which is quite weak. The second, that Michel Saunier chose, is a more recent drawing (anonymous also, to make things more complicated...) on a tracing paper. It says "Ludovic" at one point instead of Louis, so M. Lemineur suppose it has a german origin. The decoration is more connected to the Berain drawing of the stern, but maybe it has been made after, to connect better. Some say it is a working version of the Tanneron model. We will never know. The good points here are that the decoration connects better with the Berain drawing of the stern and the architecture of the first deck connection with the stern is better. Tanneron made a third version of the galleries.... Did he know the existence of the previous drawings ? If yes, why didn't he used them ? Didn't he trust them ? Or is the second drawing a preparatory for his model ? (I personnaly don't think so) Or is his work with the balcony pure invention ? Or did he had some other documents that didn't made their way to our days ? So, as you see, all you can make with le Soleil Royal is a representation of what she may have looked like, and not what she was. All the interpretations will be very hypothetical, and neither can be stated as more or less false than the other. That is why, in my conversation with M. Lemineur, he firstly told me that is was a bad idea to make a SR model. Then he told me that, if all the other points were good and respectful of the ways of doing things at the time, it could be a good model of what the SR may have been. The documentation on the SR is a mess and too poor to pretend to recreate what really this ship was. But it's what we do, suppositions and patchwork of documentation and references. Even his monograph of the St Philippe is a patchwork of what should have been and not the reality. The best monographs from Jean Boudriot and Gérard Delacroix are patchwork of different sources. The difference is that they used first hand historical sources to make their monographs when for the SR the sources are not even sure.

Hello Vic ! Yes the Artesania Latina model has a few problems: the space between the gunports, the sheer rail, the deck equipments, the side galleries are underscaled, etc... But the metal parts are very good and the recreation of the stern is exciting. I'm sure with a good work of "reverse engeneering" as said Marc, it can be a great model. Anyway I'm always pleased when someone shows interest in this ship and I look forward to see the first builds from this kit.

I confirm that I had very good contact with the Artesania Latina crew and they explained me how they used my drawing without knowing the source. They kindly offered me some tools as a compensation and I would like to publicly thank them for their reaction. I hope to see soon some nice work on their kit on this forum !

Thanks, I will try to keep the work continuous now !

You may be right, your arguments are ok. Concerning the ornaments, I don't remember where I read that the ships with royal names (such as Soleil royal, Royal Louis, Monarque, Reine, etc...) always benefited from the use of gold, when the ones with quality names (qualities that the king gave to himself of course ! such as Ambitieux, Téméraire, Agréable, etc...) benefited only from Naples yellow. I will try to find back this source. The faded red color is precisely "ventre de biche", and is mentionned to be used only on the stern.

It's an outstanding work you make, Marc. I love the way you proceed with the balcony architecture. Why did you paint it that way, personnal preference ? Historic reference just say "ventre de biche", blue and gold. Congratulations !!

Hello, thank you for your comments ! I'm currently working on the guns so the next update will be in a few weeks I think. I'm not selling/giving my plans yet, I may give them when I have corrected numerous little errors here and there. It has been corrected on the model, and re-drawn partialy but all the corrections on all the plans hasn't been made so currently it's a mess Nonetheless, I just found out that Artesania latina made a Soleil Royal kit, and, in their Youtube add video, they took one of my drawings without asking me if I was ok... Sometimes, people just don't ask...!

Thank you Marc for posting the pics, his work will be remembered !

Thank you very much for your messages ! Julia is growing up and will turn 1 year in a few days, it's been a very busy year between the family and the Covid but I could resume the work on the model a few days ago and I ended the third deck panels. I won't give up ! Thank you for your support, I really appreciate it !

Thank you very much Marc ! My wife makes miniatures quicker (and better) than me ! My daughter's name is Julia are you Leo too ?

Oh god that's beautiful !! No doubt your work will be an inspiration when I do the quarter galleries... I really admire what you did, congrats !!

Hello everybody, thank you very much for your messages and all my apologies for not being active the last couple of month... I just discovered the warm PM you sent me and I'm really ashamed... The build has gone very little forward because it's a quite long work to do the carvings, and something I told would never happen again has happened... I'm a father of a little baby girl born 08.22.20 ! Of course it made me busy quite a lot, and I can at last go back to the workshop. As you know the pandemic make my job more tricky but hopefully I'm not working in a hospital so I'm fine. Thank you all for the kind words, I'm really sorry I did'nt see them earlier... I hope everyone is alright, take care, Marc

Hello Marc, I wish you prompt recovery, I hope you're alright now. Take care my friend, for you and your family, Marc

Hello EJ, impressive work for a great result ! What a job on the carvings, congrats !!

Yes, I will carve every single piece of ornament in boxwood. I had a proposal by a russian modelist to make me every sculpture of the SR in resin, (or wood with cnc I don't remember) in exchange of my plans, and a proposal just like Michel Saunier by a french modelist to offer me some of the decorative parts in resin but I declined both, I want to make as much as I can by myself and I want only wood for the decorative parts. Resin looks good on Michel Saunier's model but who knows how the wood will turn in a few years... Resin will always look the same so maybe in a couple of years the difference between the two materials will be too obvious. For my photos I only use my Iphone... with the light of my workshop. Only the last picture is made by daylight in my living room. I find the Iphone make some really good photos, with much faithful colors than my canon compact camera I previously used. The only inconvenient is when you need to zoom, the precision of the image runs down. And I like to take some distance from the subject and then zoom rather than make closer shots because the closer you are the more deformed is the image. Especially with rounded shapes as a ship's hull. I have not found a solution for that. These last days were my week of "holydays", and I tried to stay offline from the work as much as I could because I needed to. On sunday I return to work and I will make my part of the job of course. Take care everyone, best regards !

Thank you Victor ! I didn't know about it, I will try ! Work on the Soleil Royal goes on, this time I shoudn't disapear for a few months... well, I hope ! I'm working on the decorative parts of the third deck, much time to adjust these small elements... But the result is there, it's quite good looking. The boxwood parts are 0,5mm, and they are made round on there edges. (sometimes I struggle with english language to exprim simple ideas !! 😅)

Hello ! I read in every document that the red color was to hide the blood. So red was the color for every planking inside the ship, except for the commander's apartments that were light grey. In fact, red ocher and yellow ocher were quite cheap so they were largely used on the ships. Vermilion red was very expensive and used only for some decorative parts, blue was also very expensive. For the ornaments, gold was of course very expensive but usual at the XVIIe century. At the XVIIIe century one can see much less gold, except for the prestigious ships. As a general rule, you can say that a ship with a royal name had his ornaments covered with gold, and a ship with a qualifier (Ambitieux, Terrible, Temeraire...) or a mythological name had his ornaments painted with napoli yellow.

Hello ! Yes, the "susbandes" are the metal parts that secure the gun on it's carriage, I don't know the correct word in English. No problem, I will post as many pictures as needed ! At this time I can work every day in the workshop so the SR progresses quite quickly, I hope I can post new pictures soon ! Yes I'm a GP in the north of France, and we are quite under pressure with this virus... Take care everyone !

Hi all ! Marc, for the quarter galleries I have no precise plan yet, but I think I will make a quite elaborate form with balsa wood as a draft to study the volumes. Then I will build the stern and the galleries the way it's meant to be, building the frame then planking and then adding the ornaments. I finally made a last correction on the sheer cap railings, wich on reflection I found a bit too stiff and straight. I remade the last level and gave a bit more plunging; it's only 2mm but it makes a difference. So I post the same views as before for a comparison. For the susbandes I resigned myself to use what Alexey Baranov had graciously sent me at the time. It's not bad, and for what will be seen it will do the job. For the guns of the upper decks I will do them by myself but for the first two decks it will save me considerable time. I also post again a pic of the carpenter, I love this little guy. It puts a touch of colour, of life, it pops much more than my little wooden Tourville. It immediatly give a good idea of the size of the ship !

Thank you everybody for your kind words and encouragements. You know, I really hate to be an unreliable man, and I feel unconfortable with saying I will post pics and I can't. But everytime I think I will have some time to go back to the workshop the amount of work (my real work I mean) increases and I'm away from home much more than I would like to... And as you can imagine with the Covid-19, things are not going to be better anyway soon. But that's my job and of course it is the priority. Anyway, I have at last some real improvement to show so here are the pics ! At first I had to make some shaped pieces of wood (lisses de rabattues, don't know the english word, wich are molded) with a tarabiscot. Then I can plank the rest of the ship. I had to correct my drawings concerning the sheer cap railing (rabattues) and make them more parallel to the other "préceintes". (I don't find the english word, but I suppose it makes sense anyway). It came from an advice Marc gave me a few years ago. I did not make them more curve, in fact I even made them more straight, but I gave them less a "fan" shape. So at last it goes forward. The left side is a little late but will be done in a few days. Thank you for your interest, regards, Marc

Hello Marc ! You really did a great work with the windows, and the job on the stern is topnotch, it will look very accurate. Congrats ! Your model is going to be a reference when finished. By the way, a funny thing about languages. In english, one say "stern chase gunports". In French, we call them "retreat gunports". It always made me laugh !

It's stunning work, Marc ! I love the way you are building your model.