KevDen

Thanks for the input gents, seems Jan was right with his initial observation (as to what 'happened' to the post in question). Now Jud, re something you had said in that 'removed' post (which by the way I certainly thought had its place here); "Looks like another of model of a twin Bofors is in order as an aid to fabrication and fitting of that shield." I may be misreading you, but my understanding is that those shields were one off's (well "8 off's" actually), that is they were custom made circa early 1942 somewhere in Indonesia only for the eight twin Bofors (four apiece) on Java and De Ruyter. So, 'model-maker-wise', specific only for those two ship builds. I have never seen shields shaped like that, or resembling those on any other ship. Now I don't know about the De Ruyter kit, but as Piet said, they are in the Java kit, he just seemingly simply overlooked them / or decided to not use them first time round with his build. And maybe that was because, like I said in an earlier post, most historical photos don't show them, and unless specifically pointed out, the majority of people are still not aware they were there. So one may be inclined to think, and forgiven for thinking so, that they were in the Java kit by 'mistake' as it were. Anyway, I certainly look forward to seeing them fitted on his model when he gets time to do so, as he does such fine work. And re your following; "The Sight Setter position in the above photo, with his back to the camera, that drew my attention, he must have been exposed in front of the new shield installation." Yeah, he must have been the guy that spilled the officers tea that morning 😉 and probably felt rather expendable stuck out there so exposed while the others were 'ensconced' behind the relative protection afforded by the shields. He certainly drew the short straw anyway!

Gents, being new here I have a (maybe dumb) question. That is, when I looked at my email notifications today I saw the below. But when I clicked on the 'go to this post' button, it goes to this page, but the post itself does not show, That is the last post that I see is from Jan above (not Jud as below). What am I missing? TIA, Kevin ************************************************************************************* Hi KevDen, jud has posted a comment on a topic Posted in Hr. Ms. Java 1925 by Piet - FINISHED - Pacific Cross Roads - 1:350 - Light Cruiser of Roal Netherlands Navy as she was in 1942 Sure glad those shields never became the norm, look like a huge obstruction to routine maintenance, the Quad shields would have been a pain in the but but they didn't get in the way of working on the top of the gun or loader. Now that the record is unquestionable, adding the shields is proper, but not long ago I would have argued not to, especially on twins. Looks like another of model of a twin Bofors is in order as an aid to fabrication and fitting of that shield. The Sight Setter position in the above photo, with his back to the camera, that drew my attention, he must have been exposed in front of the new shield installation. Photo shows why I would have bitching about those shields if we had them. Regunning Mount 46, Harnett County LST 821, TF 116, TU 76.8.3, one of the Delta river RVN, 1968. notice. we did not unload the loader to do this. Good luck on making an exceptional Model more accurate to the time she was lost. Go to this post

Hi Jan, Actually Hr. Ms. Java and Hr. Ms. De Ruyter had identical "face shield's" on all their Bofors (4 twin sets apiece) when sunk. It seems they (the 'shields') were put on only shortly before the ships were sunk, that is after war started and somewhere in Indonesia (either Tandjong Priok or Surabaja, one would assume). They were so 'new' as a matter of fact, that when De Ruyter's Bofors gunnery officer (who was still alive at the time we found the wrecks in 2002) was told of them being in place, he could not recall them at all, and actually said they were not on his Bofors. It took my underwater photos to convince him they were. 😉 So that gives some idea how recently they had been installed, if even he had forgotten. Even the authors of both books (one on Java by J Anten, the other on De Ruyter by Legemaate, et al), and other historians were not aware of them being in place. Seems their installation had just been 'a forgotten addition' which, given what else was going on around that time, is to be understood. The historical pic of Java at TP, posted somewhere earlier in this thread actually shows them on her. That is, in the same (but cropped) first pic below, in upper right you can see the shield on the Bofors facing the viewer. In the 2nd, a close up of same, the red arrow points towards the barrels, the green to the 'shield' itself. The third is a u/w one of mine of a Bofors gun on Java, the shield having quite deteriorated. The other two photos below - the lower two - are of De Ruyter, an historical pic (taken at Oosthaven, Sth Sumatra, circa mid February 1942) and an u/w pic of mine showing one of DR's Bofors. It seems very very few historical pics show them installed on either of the ships, and then only if your really looking for them (in an enlarged image). Actually I know of only two historical photos that show them on DR, and two (one being the full image of top photo below) showing them on Java, and those four photos showing them were all taken in 1942. Kevin

Jack, thanks VERY much for those tips, very helpful!

Piet, re your above. The main reason I asked at the time not to pass them on , post, etc was that the 'technical' aspects - shall we say - of those stern images left a lot to be desired. One of my two strobes (flash units) for my camera failed upon reaching the bottom, so the pics were taken with only one flash, which was really inadequate for that dive, as it was as dark as night on the bottom of Java Sea that day. And only using one flash often creates the accursed 'backscatter', those particles that appear like falling snow as seen in those pics of mine. Not a good 'look' for an u/w photo, from the photographers point of view anyway. 😊 So, I always intended to go back and get better clearer photos, and publish those, but alas it was not to be. Actually the stern was very rarely dived - maybe only twice - certainly less than a handfull of dives for sure in the 13 odd year interim before the wrecks were so rudely removed. As far as I know then, those images remain the only images that exist of what was the remains of the shattered stern, as I never got back to dive the stern myself. Oh, and by the way, you have done your father very very proud with your Hr. Ms. Java build. Truly EXCELLENT!!!

Thanks very much Imagna / Lou for alerting Piet to my inquiry. He has already contacted me by PM (and posted above)! I have tried to send you a PM with thanks but cant tell if it went through, hence this post here now. Anway, again thanks for hooking us back up and will make a post or two of my own in due course, more on an historical note for modelers than actual modeling per se, once having conversed a little more with Piet off forum. PS. Being new to forum and these are my first posts, it seems there is no way to 'preview' ones post before commiting to actually posting / uploading. Is that correct? Kind regards, Kevin D

Realise this is an old thread but just stumbled on it by chance (and read through it) and thought I'd join up and make a post in the hope that Piet see's it. Now I am certainly not going to chastise you for posting my u/w stern photos Piet, far from it. No problem there whatsoever. It is just that I lost your email address some years ago with a computer crash. And hence, lost touch Anway, will keep this brief for the time being and hope that I hear back from you. Best, Kevin Denlay