Egilman

WOW! that is some transformation! Nicely done....

No Spanner in the works.... The SAAF flew two different versions of the Sabre in Korea, the F-86F on loan from the USAF and their own purchased Canadair Sabre 13 Mk. 6's (F-86F's built by NAA in Palmdale for the Canadian AF) those Mk. 6's had grey cockpits, the SAAF Sabre's of 2 sqd, on loan from the USAF had black cockpits.... Read here where where it is directly discussed... (By SAAF historians and modelers)

Yep, every single one of those, if owned by the USAF, is post November 1953... Postwar... I'll see if I can dig up the references and post them... Pretty much everyone restores them to the Black over Grey standard today, it's a pure flyability issue, but only historically accurate postwar when the Airforce converted to it... (also note that most of the flyable F-86's today were built postwar so a grey cockpit would be accurate for those as built) The wartime F-86's were transferred to other airforces or retired as the US airforce upgraded or replaced theirs... I understand that Taiwan got over 200 wartime F-86's just as one example... (Japan got around 100 as well before manufacturing them under license) In fact the aircraft I'm modeling wound up being wrote off by the Chinese (taiwanese) Airforce I believe in the 70's... (I believe my research shows that there is only one wartime F-86 in flying condition in the world today and it's an "A" model) Forgotten Warbird resource groups listing for 51-2910 Scroll down to 51-2910... Taken from official USAF records... Now, Airport Data claims that Yanks Air Museum is restoring 51-2910 but they aren't, and Wiki claims that 51-2910 is on display at the USAF 51st Fighter Wing area, Osan Air Base, South Korea, but it isn't... (they also list it as an F-86D which it wasn't) The USAF armaments museum has an F-86F in Capt. McConnell's livery and they acknowledge that it isn't 51-2910... UPDATE: the Yanks Air Museum F-86F has been identified as 52-5513.... That solves that mystery... You can research individual military aircraft and what is known about their fates, it's not complete but what they do have is very accurate all you need is their initial registration number...

Never said there weren't, the USAF had to get the idea from somewhere... Once the Aircraft were made available to the allied nations, they were free to do with them as they pleased.. Not everyone thought flying slow cookers were a good thing... {chuckle}

It's the primary rule of great modelers, whatever works, works...

Hey I heard somewhere that the Abrams engine runs on anything.... {chuckle} Chocolate would be perfect! Looking good brother, very impressive...

That's the million dollar question Andy, I won't know until the fuselage is almost completely assembled and the finish is applied... That's why this is another test build... And with needing the second fret of PE parts for the seat which is going to take at least two weeks to get here from eduard, I'm looking at moving forward on other things right now... the only image I have of a real life cockpit for an F-86F from the outside is this... And it's a Canadair Sabre Mk. 5, (in the Korean War configuration) So I'm flying by the seat of my pants/experience as to what to do and where to go with it... it's a nice clean look if I can pull it off.. Thank you, I think I'm on the right track and it is a good time to shift to something else right at the moment... I have other parts and alterations that need to be made to the fuselage first before I can assemble it and finish it... (like the ammo bay doors which are opened to double as the first step to climb into the cockpit, they need to be added to the model before I can close it up) The gun barrel ports need to be replaced as well cause as molded they don't represent anything of reality... There are some issues with this kit that need correcting... And I just learned about the engine... Normally the engine would go inside the aircraft and that is how it is usually built or they give the option of having the tail on a work stand with the engine hanging out the back... (not a good look for me) I'm gonna put it on an engine dolly to display it so I have the option of making it look like a real engine rather than something to just stick out it's tail... It's a nice kit, accurate if built as just the airplane sitting on the runway waiting to take off, but it can be made into something real special if one puts in the work... That's my aim here....

Welcome aboard Roger! It's one of mine as well, it's simply a strikingly beautiful airplane...

Though of that Ken when I started... Most modelers lighten the flat black by adding a couple of drops of white to it in a mixing cup then dry brushing all the edges to make them stand out before doing the decals and PE... Kinda like the technique used to highlight the nooks and crannies on ship models but in reverse... That was the point of the grime wash give the edges some definition so they don't get lost... It worked sufficiently to allow something to show in natural light.... The eduard set appears as black in natural light but obviously shows up as green under intense flash light... I'm sitting here looking at it from 3 feet away under natural light and it looks good... Under high flash, without the white background this is what I get... Much better although the panels still show as greenish... Under natural light without the white background... Now that looks like a cockpit... some of the green tinted panels do show but loosing the stark white background helped quite a bit... Looks much better... And with the Mk 1 eyeball it looks good.. Still need to finish some detailing before I set it aside to go on with the kit... I probably should have gone with Andy's suggestion and did the postwar cockpit easier to do and although not historically accurate, would have been simply easier... I have to set this aside for the moment, my eduard set when I opened it had an error, fret 2 was the wrong fret from another 1/48 scale model.. I've been in contact with eduard support showing them the packing error and they got back to me this morning... They will be sending me a correct fret 2 within the week... That will allow me to dress up the seat and radio shelf in the canopy.... (understanding that this set has been discontinued for over a year, they are making a fret up just for me, for free! That's great customer service) I think this will work once it is all said and done and out in the natural light it will look the part... Next step is the engine and it's scratch built dolly, and we run into a spot where the manufacturer got it wrong, the engine... More to follow....

It's been a pleasure my friend, Beautiful job!!! Well done...

Thanks Andy, Yeah it kinda does beg the question doesn't it.... So what we want is something that shows when you look at it directly under high light levels yet disappears when at a distance..... What I did was install the eduard cockpit panels I have... lets see how they react under heavy flash and natural light... They should show up well and distinct and defined under bright light and disappear under natural light... Bright Lights...... Natural Light... They virtually disappear at 18" away, but under closeup with good light they show up well... I think I'm going to go with that..... I have a complete Aries cockpit set that I'm hoping to save in case I want to do the -40 variant of this aircraft, or possibly recoup some of the cost of this kit in the future so unfortunately I have nothing to show another option... I think this looks good enough for what I'm doing... It will look the part when buttoned up...

Yep I have considered that Andy, problem is except for a few milk runs, 51-2910 was a brand new aircraft when issued to McConnell, every shot I have of the aircraft shows virtually no wear at all... (with the original black headrest and seat pads from NAA as well) Not even chips in the paint... There's a lot of things I could do to make it a lot easier like beat it up a bit show some wear and tear, but McConnell's last bird was clean very little wear and tear, and her crew chief kept it that way... Much like this pic... You see no edge wear, quite a bit of dust and some interior green floor is beginning to show and I believe all that white on the stick is leather polishing of the bakelite grip showing as flash reflection from the camera.... Your not even seeing wear in the NAA emblems on the seats foot pans... Just a modicum of dirt, (although the rudder pedals are showing wear on the tread sections where the pilot does most of the pushing... (first place it shows up) A line aircraft with a new seat I would say, a couple of months service is all... I figure the original seat would look like the rest of the cockpit, beginning to show signs of serious usage but nothing that stands out... My feelings is this is a close representation of what Capt McConnell's every day office looked like, it's why I'm trying to replicate it.... Exterior pics thru the canopy show nothing, just a black hole under glass, but open canopy pics show essentially what you see above... (pic was clearly taken with high flash to bring out definition of the surfaces, in some places your seeing reflection from the flat black surfaces.. The seat looks almost like gloss paint) The funny thing is, I'm learning how difficult it is to do a clean cockpit as compared to a fairly well used one... Especially flat black with black dials.... Definition is hard to come by...

I promised pics... Under natural light cause that is where the detail; disappeared in the black hole.... You can at least discern the panels and edges while it still looks blacker than black... But, it doesn't look right to me, the technique is good, my detail picking, not so much... I think I'm gonna take a different approach here something that adds more detail... Stay tuned my friends.... EG

Well the idea is similar to black basing, since the base is pure black like the real aircraft, that's what you use.. Then take some dirtifying stuff, (Mig streaking grime for example) and wash it without sealing it, you want the flat black and grime to really adhere to each other... Once dry using clear clean thinner, wash it again, yes it's going to knock down the paint on the high spots, but it will move the rest around making it dull and splotchy, but still discernably black... Then you go back over it sealing it with future before dry brushing gloss black enamel over the high spots you washed the paint off of before... Then pick out the details with your colors and overcoat it with flat clear... Pictures soon...

I'll be here brother, got a '66 Mk 4 in the stash in the same scale... Get yourself well my friend, it's no fun being sick...

Agreed on the not being seen not being done as well.... My skills are what they are no need to hone them on useless endeavors... Yep the F-84F Thunderstreak, completely different aircraft from the F-84 Thunderjet it was derived from... It's is also a BMF bird in USAF livery... (the 3 color SEA scheme looks good as well) You should do a build thread on it...

Ok small update... Cockpit assembly... The kit gives you full intake ducting, no I'm not going to be cleaning up and metalizing the insides of the intake like some have tried, I don't mind a little self abuse, but torture, especially for something your never going to see? nah... Basic black, you can already see the details fading to nothing... I actually went and looked for everything I could find on this specific aircraft to see if there was ANY variation of color... Nope McConnell's aircraft was an almost new F-86F-1-NA and yeah the cockpit was black as night... (even the headrest and seat pad) so I'm forced to give it the shadowbox treatment. (slightly off shade washes in the hope of highlighting shapes) Maybe a very light dusting of pastels to highlight the nooks and crannies.... As you can see it's pretty bland, would be much prettier in black over grey, but it just wouldn't be accurate... Below a sample of it in the fuselage under flash and natural light for an idea of what I'm describing... Detail just disappears in a black hole.... Oh Well.... Next up the instruments and side panels, hopefully the colored PE will add some pizzazz to it I will be picking out some switches and lights as well, there just isn't much you can do with an all black cockpit... Onwards....

So do I definitely needs color there... Good Job!

No Kidding, can you imagine sitting in a black tub in the Korean summer sun, under glass for four to five hours at a time? Sweltering... An oven on slow cook... It was reported that occasionally a pilot would pass out from dehydration once they climbed out of the cockpit... Amazing men every single one of you..

Ok first step on most model aircraft is the cockpit.... (usually the instrument panel) On this model, I'm blessed, (or cursed) with options... Two from the kit and two aftermarket.... The upper left corner shows the two kit options, A decal sandwiched between clear plastic panels, or a raised plastic panel... they are close to the actual instrument panel layout as shown from the flight manual page but not exact... The next option on the lower left is the Aires cockpit set for this model the instrument panel is a lot more accurate compared to the picture but not quite perfect... the last option on the right is the eduard set of which I only have the instrument panel portion... It is perfectly laid out matching the flight manual image... of course with all the switched levers and buttons you need a microscope to see much less install... the Aires set gives you seatbelts and harnesses that need to be assembled as well where the eduard set gives you simpler ones much easier to install... (the eduard set also gives you a brass panel to replace the kits decal with, you can see the detail differences between the kits representation and the eduard representation clearly there) Before making this decision we also have to realize another situation.... Somewhere in the time after the end of WWII and the start of the Korean War, the Airforce decided to go to an all black cockpit... F-86A F-86F The last image is a Palmdale (North American Aviation) built Sabre Mk 5 that is still in it's wartime configuration... This illustrates the black cockpit better than anything I could describe... Postwar, the Airforce decided that they were going to the aircraft grey cockpit with black panels (November '53) and all aircraft were to be switched to the new scheme upon the first IRAN (Inspect and Repair As Needed) so you will be very hard pressed to find any sabre aircraft with a black cockpit today, all of the currently flying refurbished/restored aircraft have a grey/black cockpit... Given this fact, I'm loath to do a ton of mods and AM upgrades to a cockpit you aren't even going be able to see... Non-updated Sabre Mk 5 cockpit... Even the grey cockpit doesn't show up that well from above... I'm probably going to do the Eduard instrument panel and pick out the rest of what kit details there are and call it good... There is just, in my humble opinion, no point to hacking and slashing a cockpit that no one can appreciate..., the eduard set has the most accurate IP and I'll leave it at that, I may dip into the Aires set and update the cockpit aft panel and canopy frame as the detail on those parts is better than the kit and it will be seen so that is a plus.... But other than that, I think I'm going with the basics..... A wartime aircraft Next up, paint and glue to plastic.... EG

Welcome aboard Ed, good to see you... Enjoy the journey...

Thank you Yves, I'm going the full tilt route with this one, accuracy is a priority so I will be taking my time trying my best... At least everyone knows what the kit actually is, and that's a good thing...

I think it's a very presentable kit, it does have some challenges, (don't they all, chuckle) some modification surgery is going to be needed, to present it in a real world situation... Thankfully there is aftermarket to correct the relatively minor issues.... I will present those additions as I come to them.... Wish me luck my friend.. Welcome aboard Mark, glad to have you here... the popcorn smells great nice and buttery......

Ok the Kit.... Kinetic # K3201, 2007 issue, the first kit from a brand new company at the time... When first released it was going for around $25-30.00, 15 years later, your lucky if you can find one for 5 times that... F-86F-30 Sabre There are plenty of first impressions open box reviews and several decent build reports... Although this kit is rather hard to find, there have been two releases under another brand... Italeri's 2009 #2501 is a straight rebox of this kit and their #2503 is a rebox in Skyblazers decals.... also Kinetic themselves re-released it in 2009 in RCAF Golden Hawks Sabre Mk 5 livery, (Kinetic # K3202) They then released it with reconfigured wings for an F-86F 40 NATO-Sabre 6-3 Extended Wing, post Korean War version, (different wing shape, Kinetic # K3202 in German livery) and Wolfpack (#WP13201) released the F-86F-40 Sabre as a Korean Airforce fighter bomber livery... So the kit still lives in the modeling world if you care to acquire one... The Kit accurately represents an F-86F-30-NA right down the the instrument panel.. (correct instrument layout for a -1 to a -30 model) so you can model pretty much any late Korean War F-86F with non-slatted "6/3" wings installed... (wing configuration is an issue with this kit as there were several variations of wings employed on Sabre's and to model a specific aircraft requires a little education in Sabre version history) Not applicable here cause I'm directly modeling a sabre in this configuration, F-86F-1-NA #51-2910. In the box comes nine Sprues of parts, one clear, two decal sheets, a steel nose weight and a twelve page instruction booklet.... Parts.... Instructions... Decals.. (for two versions) The kit to me looks like it will build well, it does have a separate J-47-27 engine which can be left out of the airplane but it will need an engine dolly scratch built to sit on.... Next up the first step, figuring out what to do with the cockpit.... And the journey starts.... EG

Your most welcome Kevin, happy to have you here... Yeah Airframe silver is as close to true BMF you can get with a spray paint I feel... Very Very close... We are gonna see here if it CAN be done.... the results of my testing so far have me very optimistic for a good result... This piece of plastic from my first test a few month back is my inspiration.... That is some reflectivity there...