Bill97
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To add sails or not? What is your preference?
Bill97 replied to Bill97's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Finished the sails today. Added all the lines and a little antiquing. Now to start adding the blocks and getting ready to rig them on the ship.
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To add sails or not? What is your preference?
Bill97 replied to Bill97's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Ok after experimenting with the different sail making techniques, both paper and cloth, I settled on cloth. I drew out and cut paper patterns for each sail on the plastic form including the lines. I found an old cream colored bed sheet and stretched it out tight. Next I drew in long rolls of lines On the sheet with pencil matching the spacing on the patterns. For a bit of simplicity I spaced the lines a bit further apart then the molded forms. Next I drew all the patterns on the sheet matching the paper and cloth lines and included the sail number on a side tab. Then in a time consuming process I hand stitched all the lines within each pattern. After I finished sewing all the lines I cut out each sail. Using a 3 to 1 dilution of water and white glue I painted each sail formed over the plastic molds. When the glue dried I had a perfectly molded sail. I waited 24 hours to make sure sail was solid. I will now come up with a satisfactory color to lightly hit them with my airbrush. I think I will reinforce the bottom corners for rigging before I attach them to the yards. I am happy with them. As a purest I know the stitching is out of scale but I am willing to except that.
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Hello Bruma. How is your build coming along? I have set mine aside for a few days while I work on making my own sails. Once they are done and ready to go I will start the running rigging. I also have the old rigging instructions which, like you said, are a bit more understandable. Those are the ones I plan to use. I looked at the Campbell instructions. Wow! That is intense. One thing I noticed right away when I started the rigging was in the new instructions In Step 95 you are instructed to tie the ends of the yards together with black thread. That step is not in the older instructions, and it does not seem to carry over in subsequent steps. I did it and for now it has been helpful keeping the yards parallel, but I wonder if I will need to remove it later.
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Great Robert. Will let you know how my attempt goes.
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Thanks again Robert. Yes I understand bending the wire in the sides to get the billow. It just looked like in the one picture like the sail was also billowed side to side as well. As if there was a wire in the bottom. Just seemed like the two sides would collapse together when not rigged to the ship.
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Thanks Robert. I did go to your Golden Hind build log. Absolutely beautiful! Now I see why you enjoy building these ships. Your painting is incredible. I hope I can come anywhere close when I do my Man O War and HMS Victory. Just a couple questions about your sails after looking at the Golden Hind log. I included a few of your pictures for my questions. In the picture of the sail laying on the table you say there is wire only in the two sides? How is it holding it’s billowed shape side to side? It is as if there is wire in the bottom as well. My other question is when you draw the lines for sewing do you try to match the same number and spacing as on the plastic formed sail or have a set spacing you do regardless of the plastic? It appears as if there are more molded lines on plastic sail then you put on your cloth sails. On my Cutty Sark formed sails there are many many lines. The first picture that uploaded is one of them.
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Robert do you have any photos of your sail technique completed and on a ship? I have my 3mm wire and cloth. Ready to practice. When I originally read this build log I thought the pictures of the example completed ship was your’s with your sail technique. But looking back now I see they are of a ship Thunder included in his comment (I think if I am reading it correctly). And then near the end of the log you say that the sail with the block is a sail you purchased. So I am not sure if there is a picture included in this build log showing one of your sails completed and attached to the ship. If there is, tell me which one to refer to. Just want to see a finished example so I have a reference to aim toward. Thanks Robert Bill
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Popeyes I have the old assembly instructions that Arctic37 shared. I copied one of the pages above in our discussion. I am going to compare the rest of the pages with the newer instructions that came with the kit to see what else may be different.
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mtaylor this is kind of funny. That is a topic I started. I am Bill97. I have really enjoyed the comments and found them very helpful 🙂
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Thanks popeye. Yes I plan to go with sails. In fact I am going to try my hand at making my own sails for the first time. Going to practice a few different methods to see which I can do convincingly before I put them on the ship. I also printed out the old version of the instructions from years ago that Arctic37 posted. They are a big help. Below is I think the same page you were saying makes no sense in the instructions. As far as complicated rigging I think you are correct. I have my USS Constitution setting up high and when I walk by it I think it’s rigging was tough. This is a whole new level!
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Ok anybody that can supply some advice. I have reached the point on my Cutty Sark where I start rigging for sails. When I built the Revell USS Constitution the instructions went two different directions. One way of rigging if I was adding sails, and another way of rigging if not adding sails. The instructions for the Cutty Sark are not that way. The only reference to any difference in assembly is position of yards on the mast. Up higher for sails, lower for without. I have several pages of rigging instructions remaining. Some rigging appears as if it would not be possible if sails were on the masts but nothing instructs otherwise. I uploaded the remaining pages. Obviously the ones showing sails is with, but do any of the steps pertain to a without sail assembly?
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Ok anybody that can supply some advice. I have reached the point on my Cutty Sark where I start rigging for sails. When I built the Revell USS Constitution the instructions went two different directions. One way of rigging if I was adding sails, and another way of rigging if not adding sails. The instructions for the Cutty Sark are not that way. The only reference to any difference in assembly is position of yards on the mast. Up higher for sails, lower for without. I have several pages of rigging instructions remaining. Some rigging appears as if it would not be possible if sails were on the masts but nothing instructs otherwise. I uploaded the remaining pages. Obviously the ones showing sails is with, but do any of the steps pertain to a without sail assembly?
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A few days since my last update. Have been able to spend some quality time in my Cutty Sark. Have have finished the Backstays and Forestsys. It is hard to imagine how long the actual back stays are on the ship, especially on the main mast. Those are some long ropes. Now beginning the running rigging. As you all know this is where things get tedious. It is always so tricky to make sure no lines are crossed or twisted as they are fished down through the ship other rigging to its appropriate pin. I like to use a small level to make sure the yards are all rigged level.
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Same here Robert. As I mentioned it had been about 50 years since I built one of the models (I am 68 now). Kids, work, life in general just did not provide the luxury of being able to devote so much time to a hobby. Now that I am back at it my first was the USS Constitution, then the Cutty Sark I am building now, and then I have the Man O War and Heller HMS Victory ships unopened. This should cover me for a few years. With each build and the help from this web site, and people like you, I learn so much. Hopefully by the time I get to Victory or Man O War I am good enough to do them justice.
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I love building these ships but I know I still have so much to learn. With each build I have that “oh that’s how they do that moment!” Yesterday I had to take down a fair amount of standing rigging I determined I did wrong after studying the instructions more. Will fix it right today. I am not the sort with being happy with just leaving it wrong, even though I am the only one that would know. By the way my private jet is landing at Inverness airport to pick you up tomorrow morning. Could not get clearance for Edenbourgh! 😀
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That is what I was thinking on which rigging. I have not started the running yet, which I knew is tan color. Should finish the standing soon, then going to set the ship aside while I practice the different handmade sail techniques to see which I can do the best.
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Thanks Robert. I really like your sails and adding the block at the bottom corners. Are you still hand sewing them? In that one close up where you show the block, your stitching is excellent! It looks like you have two rows of stitches along the bottom edge, and maybe the sides also. Is that where you add the 3mm wire on the sides? I like the wood color blocks as well. Still not sure if Ravell included enough of the plastic ones in the kit to rig the sails that way but if not I have a bunch left over from previous builds. I will just use them rather than buy new custom wood or metal ones. However I will paint them wood color instead of the standard Revell brown plastic. I am still studying the pictures in the instructions to determine the different lines in relation to the sails. It is hard to tell if the sails between the masts and at the bow are hung on the previously installed standing rigging or if a second line is run for the sail. How about you fly over here from Scotland and help me rig this thing? 😀
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Thanks Robert. That is what I thought I understood. My instructions are not real clear on if there are blocks tied or sowed to the bottom corners. May just be thread tied directly to the bottom corners. There is extremely limited text explaining anything. You just have to study the picture. See what you think.
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Ok Robert I am going to start practicing making your sail technique later this week. I have to get my 3 mm modeling wire. You said you only sew it into the sides of the sails, not top or bottom, right? I am going to wait to sew in the lines until after I see if my practice sails come out. Will sew the lines in the ones I actually make for the ship.
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Yes I was tempted to try the haggis! Once was often enough. Luckily it was after, and then followed up by some fantastic Scotch Whiskey and beautiful golf!
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I am in Kentuck, USA. May have heard of Kentucky Derby. Track close by my home. Love Scotland. Spent some time in the north. An area called Dornoch, I believe. And of course looked for Nessie!
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Good morning Robert, or morning where I am. By the way, where on this beautiful planet might you be? I think your wire and cloth method is the first way I am going to try. I also learned how to sew from my mother many many years ago. Of course machine sewing would be faster and more uniform in stitch spacing. But what the heck. I am sure the original sails were hand sewn back in the day.
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Thanks again Robert. The wire idea does seem less messy than the white glue “paint” on the sail to form it to the molded matching one.
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Thanks dmv27. I wish I had the space to incase it and the others I will eventually complete. I now have 4 in the 1/96-1/100 scale. One done, one in progress, and two yet to be opened. I have limited space to display them but may try to figure out a way. I am thinking of furled sails at the bottom yards and unfurled on the upper yards.
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Hello OC. Thanks for he compliment. I am definitely a new face on MSW. Just a few months. Have found it to be extremely helpful and enjoyable.
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