NAZGÛL

once upon an idea...........there was a concept to build three boats,  all with a holiday theme.   they were part of an experiment,  to replicate hulls,  using kit parts panels.   in my opinion,  it was a success....the M&M fun ship being a completed build,  the trawler 'Syborn' well on it's way towards being the second ship to be completed.  the 'Syborn' is unique to me, because it was an added experiment in making the hull longer by adding in copies of key ribs, stretching the hull.  these two were created using the hull from the Billing's Mary Ann.......or even the Cux 87.
 
when I assembled the hull for the Boulogne Etaples,  I saw possibilities yet again.....and the three hulls were created from the parts panels from this kit.   I originally had three themes for the subject of Christmas,  but as time went on,  one of the themes fell through.  I was left with a hull without a theme
 
in building these boats.......I at least want them to be somewhat logical {although the M&M boat was more of an 'admiral's whim' }.   when I was making these hulls.......I had thoughts about the Andrea Gail.  I looked her up in the Billings catalog.....the bones were there...it could be done.   I kept her on the back burner.....I have projects started already...enough to keep me busy for a while.   maybe later.
 
months past...............
 
it was during my two month hiatus,  that the idea surfaced again.  I had downloaded the instructions for the R/C version of the A.G. and thought I would look at them.  I also found that there was also a static kit out there as well....smaller scale,  but just as detailed.  I thought about the Gundalow,  and how a simple article I read,  stopped me in my tracks.  perhaps that is the same problem here......can't say for sure......but you know it's pretty chronic,  if the admiral starts to take notice
 
if you've been following the Holiday Harbor build,  you've seen the modifications that needed to be done,  to create the basic hull.   I found an interesting article:
 
Perfect Storm, The - THE ANDREA GAIL
 
seeing the movie about the Andrea Gail during the time frame made me want to attempt this,   all the more.   I wish i had saved a copy of the search records.......they never found Capt. Tyne or his crew.
 
....and so......to where I am now.   the hull and the pilot house has been created.   the hull needs to have the external rails done,  and soon the paint.  I'm using the Billing's plans as sort of a practicum,  so......if you see something that may not be exactly correct,  it's just me keeping the copyright monster at bay {but it will be in the ballpark though}.  here is the hull and where I am now
 

 
I only had a chance to sand down the roof line of the pilot house so far....more needs to be done.
 

 
the ice maker looked too deep to me.......I took about 1/4 of an inch from it,  so that it would sit under the cut - a - way on the starboard side.
 

 

 
lastly.......here is the boat that they used in the movie......you can see on the bow where they had changed the name.
 

Pins now added to pin rails you will notice some blank pin holes forward. This is because they are spare slots. Currently we don't set either the flying jib or flying staysail and neither of these two sails are rigged. Also the pins for the jib sheets can be moved further back depending on trim and well the bosun.

Deck penetrating tubing have now been added to the gunwales.
 
These are the bent over shaped rod which allow electrical cables to psd through a water tight grommet through the deck. I've also added the two fire hydrants, grey water tank goose neck vents, fuel filling points - the grey painted tube, fresh water filling points and release goose neck vent - the blue painted items, and the black water tanks pumping out points - white with black tips.

Another little touch before it gets difficult to attach. Tied to the edge of the main companionway hatch and the chart house hatch, we have small 'watch your head!!!' Signs
 
Even with these signs it's still surprising how many people try knocking themselves out.

A close up of the helmstation, showing all gauges, compass and the red plaque shows the recommended rpm for engine speed - dead slow, slow, half and full ahead/astern.
 
Also added the ships builders plaque which is on the vent hatch of the chart house and a memorial plaque which is on the starboard fcstle bulwark. The memorial plaque is in honour of one of our original volunteers Norman Shorrocks who would act as a custodian when we were at our home port in Fremantle. He would act as duty officer for the ship when in port to give the permanent crew time at home - currently we use a roster between us for duty when alongside - and was always full of stories and would also do anything for anyone.

Thanks Patrick, happy to help where and if I can. I've added a couple shots of my last model a 1/72 HMAS Brisbane or should I say nuship Brisbane. This is one of the new AWD's being built here in Australia. This model is full RC with working lights, radars rotating guns and firing verticle missile. She's a big one at 2.04 meters in length built with a fiberglass hull and plastic sheet for the superstructure and brass and resin fittings. So even though I'm a tall ship sailor, the Leeuwin is a jump for me in period of ship models. I'm looking forward to something not grey and with sails!

Leeuwin high and dry during our refit last year. We have a refit every 12 months but only every second year does she come out of the water.
 
Also a couple close up shots on my hull.

Thanks Patrick,
 
Unfortunately I couldn't buy the hull! Haha there aren't any kits or plans available commercially for the Leeuwin on the market. Because of this I've seen a few models of the Leeuwin around with the completely wrong hull - especially the underwater sections. I'm an officer onboard so have access to the official ships plans. I don't have pics from the building of the hull unfortunately but the plug was built using a bread and butter method with pine planks and carved to shape. The molds are in two halves as the way the forepeak is made up, it would have been too hard to pull out of a single mold. A wooden template shaped around the keel profile is placed on the plug to form one half of the mold. Once this is set, the same is done for the other half. Both halves are clamped together to form one complete mold. This is what's used to produce the main model hull, once the fiberglass is set the two mold halves are unclamped and you're left with a one piece hull.
 
Below are photos for a hull mold and plug for the STS Young Endeavour to give you an idea of the process.

As you can see the basic hull structure is complete and deck templates are in to finalise the shape of the permanent decks.

Hi everyone,
 
This is my first post after
a few years. I had been on the original forum though work as usual always got in the way. Anyway signing back up I've decided to post a new build log of what I'm building now. This will be a model of the STS Leeuwin II.
 
The STS (Sail Training Ship) Leeuwin II is a tall ship based in Fremantle, Western Australia.
The Leeuwin is a three-masted barquentine. It was built to a design by local naval architect Len Randell by Australian Shipbuilding Industries Pty Ltd (now BAE Systems Australia) and launched on 2 August 1986. It is currently operated by the Leeuwin Ocean Adventure Foundation, a private not-for-profit organisation that runs youth training voyages along the West Australian coast.
 
The ship's overall length is 55 metres (180 ft) and its beam 9 metres (30 ft). The hull is welded steel with a teak deck. The main mast is 33 metres (108 ft) tall and, when fully rigged, the ship carries over 810 square metres (8,700 sq ft) of sails. A full crew consists of 55 people, consisting of 5 permanent crew, up to 10 volunteers (including four watch leaders, a bosun's mate, cook's mate and purser), and 40 trainees. The watch leaders take control of the four watch groups and lead the trainees through activities and ship duties on voyages of five days and more.
 
The model is based around a fiberglass hull and will be built using various media including fiberglass, plastic, wood and brass.

Hi everyone!
 
I have an interest in King Karl IX, Gustav II Adolfs father. Before reaching the crown he was a duke and was successful in developing his duches and he created his own fleet. And when he later went to war with Sigismund his fleet became an important part. When he later became king his fleet became part of the swedish fleet. As many men of power at that time in history, Karls seems to have been quite cruel but he did manage to reach remarkable goals in his life and laid the base of what Gustav II Adolf managed to achieve later on. For a while I'v been wanting to make a model of one of Karls ships. When going through the ship lists available I decided to go for the small ship called Gripen (griffin). Gripen was Karls symbol and is to be seen on Vasa stern as well when two griffins puts the crown on Gustav II Adolfs head. Making a model of Gripen will mean a lot of guesses on my behalf as very little is known. 
 
I like to build by eye and even if I made some basic plans and drawings, I will try to relax and do what feels right as I move the build along.
 
The design is inspired by the beautyful replica of Duyfken and by paintings by Vroom and other dutch artists. I would like to thank all who helped me with advices and opinions in this thread: 
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9996-ships-of-the-late-16th-century/
 
In that thread you can also follow the steps I did when designing the model.
 
When I finished the Vasa build I had a pile of spareparts left. When looking at the parts I felt I'd like to try and reshape them into something else. I feel this gives me lots of freedom when building it as I can do whatever I feel like and that helps creativity. Worst thing that can happen is that I mess upp and then I can just through it in the bin. 
 
Step 1 was to design the model. As said that step is covered in the thread mentioned above.
 

 

 
 
Step 2 was to decide what size it would be in. I printed the drawings in different sizes and then decided. The scale is close to 1:70.
 
Step 3 was to make a more detailed plan just to get the basic set up of the frames and how to reshape them to the lines of my drawings.
 

 
Step 4  Was to do the actual reshaping. First before assembly, then reshaping again. The supporting parts are ugly but I liked the idea to just use the left over parts after sawing the frames. Ugly but easy to do and they will be covered later on. I needed the supporting bits to be stronger compaired to say how BB designed theis Vasa kit, as I had to reshape them in place.
 

 

 
Next step will be to make the stern, bow and decks.
 
 
/Matti

Hi everyone!
 
I have an interest in King Karl IX, Gustav II Adolfs father. Before reaching the crown he was a duke and was successful in developing his duches and he created his own fleet. And when he later went to war with Sigismund his fleet became an important part. When he later became king his fleet became part of the swedish fleet. As many men of power at that time in history, Karls seems to have been quite cruel but he did manage to reach remarkable goals in his life and laid the base of what Gustav II Adolf managed to achieve later on. For a while I'v been wanting to make a model of one of Karls ships. When going through the ship lists available I decided to go for the small ship called Gripen (griffin). Gripen was Karls symbol and is to be seen on Vasa stern as well when two griffins puts the crown on Gustav II Adolfs head. Making a model of Gripen will mean a lot of guesses on my behalf as very little is known. 
 
I like to build by eye and even if I made some basic plans and drawings, I will try to relax and do what feels right as I move the build along.
 
The design is inspired by the beautyful replica of Duyfken and by paintings by Vroom and other dutch artists. I would like to thank all who helped me with advices and opinions in this thread: 
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9996-ships-of-the-late-16th-century/
 
In that thread you can also follow the steps I did when designing the model.
 
When I finished the Vasa build I had a pile of spareparts left. When looking at the parts I felt I'd like to try and reshape them into something else. I feel this gives me lots of freedom when building it as I can do whatever I feel like and that helps creativity. Worst thing that can happen is that I mess upp and then I can just through it in the bin. 
 
Step 1 was to design the model. As said that step is covered in the thread mentioned above.
 

 

 
 
Step 2 was to decide what size it would be in. I printed the drawings in different sizes and then decided. The scale is close to 1:70.
 
Step 3 was to make a more detailed plan just to get the basic set up of the frames and how to reshape them to the lines of my drawings.
 

 
Step 4  Was to do the actual reshaping. First before assembly, then reshaping again. The supporting parts are ugly but I liked the idea to just use the left over parts after sawing the frames. Ugly but easy to do and they will be covered later on. I needed the supporting bits to be stronger compaired to say how BB designed theis Vasa kit, as I had to reshape them in place.
 

 

 
Next step will be to make the stern, bow and decks.
 
 
/Matti

Hi everyone!
 
I have an interest in King Karl IX, Gustav II Adolfs father. Before reaching the crown he was a duke and was successful in developing his duches and he created his own fleet. And when he later went to war with Sigismund his fleet became an important part. When he later became king his fleet became part of the swedish fleet. As many men of power at that time in history, Karls seems to have been quite cruel but he did manage to reach remarkable goals in his life and laid the base of what Gustav II Adolf managed to achieve later on. For a while I'v been wanting to make a model of one of Karls ships. When going through the ship lists available I decided to go for the small ship called Gripen (griffin). Gripen was Karls symbol and is to be seen on Vasa stern as well when two griffins puts the crown on Gustav II Adolfs head. Making a model of Gripen will mean a lot of guesses on my behalf as very little is known. 
 
I like to build by eye and even if I made some basic plans and drawings, I will try to relax and do what feels right as I move the build along.
 
The design is inspired by the beautyful replica of Duyfken and by paintings by Vroom and other dutch artists. I would like to thank all who helped me with advices and opinions in this thread: 
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9996-ships-of-the-late-16th-century/
 
In that thread you can also follow the steps I did when designing the model.
 
When I finished the Vasa build I had a pile of spareparts left. When looking at the parts I felt I'd like to try and reshape them into something else. I feel this gives me lots of freedom when building it as I can do whatever I feel like and that helps creativity. Worst thing that can happen is that I mess upp and then I can just through it in the bin. 
 
Step 1 was to design the model. As said that step is covered in the thread mentioned above.
 

 

 
 
Step 2 was to decide what size it would be in. I printed the drawings in different sizes and then decided. The scale is close to 1:70.
 
Step 3 was to make a more detailed plan just to get the basic set up of the frames and how to reshape them to the lines of my drawings.
 

 
Step 4  Was to do the actual reshaping. First before assembly, then reshaping again. The supporting parts are ugly but I liked the idea to just use the left over parts after sawing the frames. Ugly but easy to do and they will be covered later on. I needed the supporting bits to be stronger compaired to say how BB designed theis Vasa kit, as I had to reshape them in place.
 

 

 
Next step will be to make the stern, bow and decks.
 
 
/Matti

Hi everyone!
 
I have an interest in King Karl IX, Gustav II Adolfs father. Before reaching the crown he was a duke and was successful in developing his duches and he created his own fleet. And when he later went to war with Sigismund his fleet became an important part. When he later became king his fleet became part of the swedish fleet. As many men of power at that time in history, Karls seems to have been quite cruel but he did manage to reach remarkable goals in his life and laid the base of what Gustav II Adolf managed to achieve later on. For a while I'v been wanting to make a model of one of Karls ships. When going through the ship lists available I decided to go for the small ship called Gripen (griffin). Gripen was Karls symbol and is to be seen on Vasa stern as well when two griffins puts the crown on Gustav II Adolfs head. Making a model of Gripen will mean a lot of guesses on my behalf as very little is known. 
 
I like to build by eye and even if I made some basic plans and drawings, I will try to relax and do what feels right as I move the build along.
 
The design is inspired by the beautyful replica of Duyfken and by paintings by Vroom and other dutch artists. I would like to thank all who helped me with advices and opinions in this thread: 
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9996-ships-of-the-late-16th-century/
 
In that thread you can also follow the steps I did when designing the model.
 
When I finished the Vasa build I had a pile of spareparts left. When looking at the parts I felt I'd like to try and reshape them into something else. I feel this gives me lots of freedom when building it as I can do whatever I feel like and that helps creativity. Worst thing that can happen is that I mess upp and then I can just through it in the bin. 
 
Step 1 was to design the model. As said that step is covered in the thread mentioned above.
 

 

 
 
Step 2 was to decide what size it would be in. I printed the drawings in different sizes and then decided. The scale is close to 1:70.
 
Step 3 was to make a more detailed plan just to get the basic set up of the frames and how to reshape them to the lines of my drawings.
 

 
Step 4  Was to do the actual reshaping. First before assembly, then reshaping again. The supporting parts are ugly but I liked the idea to just use the left over parts after sawing the frames. Ugly but easy to do and they will be covered later on. I needed the supporting bits to be stronger compaired to say how BB designed theis Vasa kit, as I had to reshape them in place.
 

 

 
Next step will be to make the stern, bow and decks.
 
 
/Matti

Hi all!
 
First I'd like to thank you all for the advices and information you've given in this thread.
 
I have now started to build the model and you can follow it here:
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10277-gripen-1591-by-mattinazg%C3%BBl/
 

 
 
 
/Matti
 
 

Hi everyone!
 
I have an interest in King Karl IX, Gustav II Adolfs father. Before reaching the crown he was a duke and was successful in developing his duches and he created his own fleet. And when he later went to war with Sigismund his fleet became an important part. When he later became king his fleet became part of the swedish fleet. As many men of power at that time in history, Karls seems to have been quite cruel but he did manage to reach remarkable goals in his life and laid the base of what Gustav II Adolf managed to achieve later on. For a while I'v been wanting to make a model of one of Karls ships. When going through the ship lists available I decided to go for the small ship called Gripen (griffin). Gripen was Karls symbol and is to be seen on Vasa stern as well when two griffins puts the crown on Gustav II Adolfs head. Making a model of Gripen will mean a lot of guesses on my behalf as very little is known. 
 
I like to build by eye and even if I made some basic plans and drawings, I will try to relax and do what feels right as I move the build along.
 
The design is inspired by the beautyful replica of Duyfken and by paintings by Vroom and other dutch artists. I would like to thank all who helped me with advices and opinions in this thread: 
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9996-ships-of-the-late-16th-century/
 
In that thread you can also follow the steps I did when designing the model.
 
When I finished the Vasa build I had a pile of spareparts left. When looking at the parts I felt I'd like to try and reshape them into something else. I feel this gives me lots of freedom when building it as I can do whatever I feel like and that helps creativity. Worst thing that can happen is that I mess upp and then I can just through it in the bin. 
 
Step 1 was to design the model. As said that step is covered in the thread mentioned above.
 

 

 
 
Step 2 was to decide what size it would be in. I printed the drawings in different sizes and then decided. The scale is close to 1:70.
 
Step 3 was to make a more detailed plan just to get the basic set up of the frames and how to reshape them to the lines of my drawings.
 

 
Step 4  Was to do the actual reshaping. First before assembly, then reshaping again. The supporting parts are ugly but I liked the idea to just use the left over parts after sawing the frames. Ugly but easy to do and they will be covered later on. I needed the supporting bits to be stronger compaired to say how BB designed theis Vasa kit, as I had to reshape them in place.
 

 

 
Next step will be to make the stern, bow and decks.
 
 
/Matti

I also think it's a design, not the perspective.
 
I think it may have been designed like that on ships in different sized ship aswell, at least variants of it. Speculations only of course, but I see no reason why not. 
 
Actually they are pretty close up, especially the top left one. The smaller size of the top right is because of the small picture I found. The images are in different sizes. Here is the top right one uncut:
 

 
Still I'd like to make the gallery more simple, Partly as it would make it more in tone with the ship lines and I also want to make Gripen a more basic ship.
 
I got a feeling that simpler lines would feel more like late 1500 and less early 1600. That's just how I feel though.

Greetings - and please accept my apology for the lengthy delay between posts!  Between the snow onslaught in January and February and then my employment change last month, well, it has been rather difficult to get motivated to spend time in the build yard.  Most of the progress shown was from January.  I am trying to get my enthusiasm back to move on with Emma and hope to be splitting time between a side research project, the job search and the build table.
 
At any rate, the deck beams are nearly all in - 3 more major beams and a few cross pieces to add.  I have opted not to do the knees - I tried a couple of times but they did not come out well at all.
 
View from above
 

 
Profile view.  Note the very low clearance in the forward hold!  The cabin will have a overall height just above the worker standing there.
 

 
Next up is install the last few deck beams and then start planking.
 
Suggestions desired - and thanks for stopping by!

Matti, I did a little more looking around as well.  The elaborate shapes you drew seem to be on larger ships, and, it must be said, on ships farther in the background of the pictures.
Talos, I don't think it is perspective, I think the double curves are accurate.  I think a stern gallery that followed the roundup of the deck would appear in the aft view as two arcs, one top, one bottom.  Since the stern of the ship rakes aft, and is not rounded aft, if the gallery followed that rake, there would be no reason for a double curve to appear 'by accident'.

First off, excellent thread. I just had a great time reading through it.
 
With the gallery profile on the left, i wonder how much of the angle on the quarters is perspective though. The center is pretty much a simple arc, but I don't know if the outboard portions rise as much as your sketch in post #71.
 

Thanks for the suggestion Scott!
 
Yeah I feel the same way you do robin. In a history book I have about the 30 year war they bring up the double feelings the horse men had. They both had a strong bond to their horse and at the same time had to regard it as possible food.
 
But reading about the boatmen on these ships, it's almost as they had the same conditions. I have at least two boatsmen (and also a dragoon soldier from the time of Karl XII) as ancestors and therefore am interested in how their life could have been.
 
 
/Matti

Hi Matti,
 
See if you can find a copy of the Hornblower A&E episode called the Fireships.  In it there is a segment where they are loading cattle by barging them out to the boat and using the same method as Chuck's model depicts.  It also addressed cleaning, feeding, and the problem of watering large animals in such cramped conditions. 

Thanks for the feedback mate. Yeah That would probably look more in tone with the other lines.
 
 
I took some examples by Vroom. The more straight ones look more right for the lines in my scetchesI think:
 

 
/Matti

I think I would just go with straight lines on the galleries, Matti.  The side galleries will be rising up with the sheer as they come aft, and the part across the stern could have the same roundup as the deck, parallel with the bottom as you have it drawn.  That should be enough.

While it is a British treatise, this may be of some use to you. 
 
A Manuscript on Shipbuilding, Circa 1600, Copied by Newton
Transcribed by Richard Barker in The Mariner’s Mirror, 80, 16–29, doi:10.1080/00253359.1994.10656481. http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00253359.1994.10656481(Accessed February 16, 2015).
 
The document presented here came to light as a result of an item in M.M., 40 (1954), 73, one of an occasional series of lists of Records. Thanks are due to the Librarian of the Cambridge University Library for permission to publish the text. It is catalogued as MSS Add. 4005 Part 12, presented by the Fifth Earl of Portsmouth, described as being in Sir Isaac Newton's autograph c.1700.
 
The description masks what this writer was delighted to discover, in an idle moment: that the manuscript is a copy of one or possibly two earlier documents, parts of which clearly date from about 1600.
 
The section of this manuscript on proportions of masts and yards is manifestly (and almost verbatim) the same as the Scott Manuscript (RINA No. 798). Otherwise the general style and content of these two manuscripts are broadly similar, in respect of the processes of moulding, for example, but in no sense are they direct copies. In fact this new manuscript contains a more coherent description of some details of ship construction than can be found in the Scott MS.