TJM
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TJM reacted to a post in a topic: HMS Harpy 1796 by Blue Ensign – Vanguard Models - 1:64 scale
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TJM reacted to a post in a topic: HMS Harpy 1796 by Blue Ensign – Vanguard Models - 1:64 scale
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TJM reacted to a post in a topic: HMS Harpy 1796 by Blue Ensign – Vanguard Models - 1:64 scale
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mtaylor reacted to a post in a topic: TRE KRONER 1742 by Beckmann - 3"/8' scale - Transom-Model
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TJM reacted to a post in a topic: TRE KRONER 1742 by Beckmann - 3"/8' scale - Transom-Model
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rcweir reacted to a post in a topic: Christiania 1774 by TJM – approx. 1:67-1:64 – Danish Light Frigate based on Vanguard Models HMS Sphinx
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CiscoH reacted to a post in a topic: Christiania 1774 by TJM – approx. 1:67-1:64 – Danish Light Frigate based on Vanguard Models HMS Sphinx
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CiscoH reacted to a post in a topic: Christiania 1774 by TJM – approx. 1:67-1:64 – Danish Light Frigate based on Vanguard Models HMS Sphinx
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wvdhee reacted to a post in a topic: Christiania 1774 by TJM – approx. 1:67-1:64 – Danish Light Frigate based on Vanguard Models HMS Sphinx
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brunnels reacted to a post in a topic: Christiania 1774 by TJM – approx. 1:67-1:64 – Danish Light Frigate based on Vanguard Models HMS Sphinx
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Log entry 22 - a bit more planking and painting the inner bulwarks I have added a few more planks and I think it is starting to show how it will look when completer. 10 planks down, 40 to go... And as I had decided to paint the bulwarks red, I masked off everything and did so - no mishaps or paint seeping, so that's nice. Here is how it looks now, with Kaptajn Hornblæser (I guess he got promoted.. ) inspecting the paintwork and how it goes together with the cannon paint sheme: As you may be able to tell, I am rough sanding as I go. I find it easier to control with a few planks at a time and it makes for less sanding at the end and (I hope) less likelihood of sanding through the second planking, as I only take off just what is needed initially. BR TJM
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Canute reacted to a post in a topic: TRE KRONER 1742 by Beckmann - 3"/8' scale - Transom-Model
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Hi Matthias, Regarding the cabin details, have you seen this drawing from the Danish archives? I believe it shows the three decker Christianus Sextus from 1733 by Barbé's predecessor Benstrup. It gives a good hint of what the decor in the cabins were like at the time! EDIT: I just realised that this was the image you posted part of a few posts ago, sorry! And you are probably right that it is the Sophia Magdalena! BR TJM
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Yes indeed! He will look something like this: For now, I just call him Løjtnant Hornblæser - I think you can guess what that translates to 😉.
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Log entry 21 - cannon, colours and inorganic chemistry! Hi Everyone, Planking is progressing, albeit quite slowly. I will show that progress after a few more have been added. To break up the quite long and repetitive task of the planking, I have started to look into the cannon - also a long task that I prefer to do a little at a time and not having it as a huge chunk of work when I reach that part! During my research, I have found that Danish cannon carriages were painted in basically the same way for a very long time, and it is a bit different from the British schemes of that time. From at least the 1610's to 1830's, the carriages themselves were red, painted with what is still in Denmark called 'svensk rød' - Swedish red. That is iron oxide - I guess that is likely the same colour as the Royal Navy used? However, all wrought iron parts were painted with lead oxide pigmented paint for corrosion protection. Here are a few reference images: A manuscript illustration - it seems to be earlier than Christianus, as it clearly depicts a bronze cannon, but the yellow wrought iron is clearly evident. An original cannon at the now defunct Orlogsmuesseet. The carriage is probably not original and it has definitely been painted recently, but is shows how the historians believe it would have looked. A commercial replica og a small Danish cannon. An image depicting 'Slaget på Reden' - the First battle of Copenhagen. The toppled cannon in the lower left shows the yellow wrought iron. Apart from these, there are many morder models at the War Museum in Copenhagen showing this paint sheme: The frigate Bornholm (1770's): The Gyldenløve (1670's): The brig Ørnen (1830's) These references all show a bright, yellow colour for the wrought iron parts, but in several sources the pigment is referred to as 'mønje', in English 'minium'. This is where the chemistry comes in: lead oxide appears in many forms with minium being just one of these. In the image below, you can see the comon forms. Black: lead(IV)oxide, PbO2. Yellow: lead(II)oxide, PbO. Orange: lead(II/IV)oxide, PbO•PbO2 The mixed, orange oxide is minium, but it looks way too orange compared to the reference material, even if the word minium is used to describe it. Now, lead(II)oxide (yellow) had two mineral forms called 'litharge' and 'massicot'. Litharge is more orange and massicot is very bright yellow. It is therefore difficult to know exactly what was used, but I will hazard a guess that it may have been a variable mixture of the different minerals minium, litharge and massicot, as chemically pure minerals were rare back then. The colour could therefore range from bright orange to light yellow. I find this kind of thing fascinating. In the end, I decided to go for a warm, but relatively light yellow, as that seems most consistent with the reference material, though for good reasons, none of those are entirely reliable. This will be used for all wrought iron parts. Here is what a canon will look like: It would have been period accurate to also paint the wheels red, but that looks too toy-like for my taste, so I will keep them natural. On a related note, I have come to the conclusion, based on all the image and model material I have found, that the inner bulwark would definitely also have been red on the Christiania. I will therefore mask off the exterior (non-cabin) part of the internal bulwark and paint that red as well. Luckily, it is not too late for that, I just need to be careful with the deck! BR TJM
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TJM started following HMS Harpy 1796 by Blue Ensign – Vanguard Models - 1:64 scale
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Log entry 20 - planking I started to draw a line parallel to the waterline and immediately realised that that was not going to work. Midships, the planks are vertical, but towards the ends, especially at the stern, the shape would require very broad planks to stay parallel with the waterline all the way. Instead, I took the time to map out even plank runs for the entire rest of the second planking. I measured at various places and printet out measuring templates to use to mark up the hull: This took a few evenings. I have started with the next planks, the first are the most difficult ast they require more shaping and it should then become easier as I get along. Including the first whole maple planks, I now have 3 on one side and 2 on the other. It takes close to an hour per plank right now so this is going to take a while. I have 25 total on either side. 😅 I can see that it wont be totally perfect, but sanding removes most of the imperfections that are there initially and the maple is very even i colour and texture. When the seams are good, they are virtually invisible, which gives a bit of tolerance for the planking job i need to achieve. I will do my best, but it is good to have a bit of wiggle room. BR TJM
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Log entry 19 - upper part of second planking done Hello everyone, and thanks for the likes. I have now planked down to the waterline on both sides, which is a kind of halfway milestone for the second planking. Here's both sides: So far, I am happy with by wood choices and am exited to see the final form of the hull taking shape. I have roughly sanded the starboard side and think it will turn out very nice after a good deal more sanding. Here's a few close-ups (showing all the little imperfections and scratches - many will disappear later with sanding): From the end on shots, it may appear as if the waterlines on either side are not at the same level - that is just a trick of the angles! They are at exactly the same level, I did not modify the height of the waterline marker at all when I drew them on! In real life, it looks fine. The seam between the pear and maple has turned out nice and sharp, which is a relief! After sanding it will look something like this: I will now continue below the waterline and have decided to use 12 cm segments as above. It will be a long frustrating task to use whole length planks with that much curvature on each, so to not run sour of the task, I will use the shorter sections. BR TJM
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This looks like a fantastic kit, as always from Chris, and beautiful presentation! The quality of Vanguard Models just keeps rising and rising 👏
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Log entry 18 - changing plans slightly Having tried a few times without achieving results I was happy with, I decided to change tactics. The waterline kept becoming too wobbly so I decided to lay a full length plank along the waterline. This was fairly easy to do. I used small nails along the waterline to register the plank and formed it in place with a hot iron, keeping it in place with pins: I did this on both sides and this looks much better in terms of straightness. I have then been adding a few more pear planks and this is how it looks now: Now, this changes things quite a bit in terms of planking strategy below the waterline. Obviously, the planks will not follow a realistic planking pattern as originally intended. I will instead view it as an artistic representation of the white painted hull below the waterline where you would not see how the planks run anyway. But since they will be visible in this case (if I make a good enough job and don't paint over it in the end...), I need the planks to have a aesthetically nice run. I think the best is to divide the hull in planks that run parallel to the waterline. I will just use the waterline marker to do this. That will result at quite thin planks at bow and stern, especially at the stern which will be a departure from a normal planked hull. I think it could work. But I have to decide whether to use full length planks or shorter sections like above the waterline. I feel it will now be better with full length planks for this aesthetic, but the planks have much more severe curves compared to a natural run and I am worried that I wont be able to get tight seams with full length planks! I will now plank down to the waterline with pear on both sides and the try to make a decision on the lower part then... If someone has any inputs or other ideas I'd be happy to hear them! BR TJM
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Log entry 17 - two steps forward, on step back... I have added another couple of plaks on both sides an am reaching the waterline. So i took the plunge and made a first attempt. It seemed to work fine, but sighting down along the hull, the waterline between the pear and the maple looked a little high in the middle. So i re-drew the waterline on top and sure enough: This looks to be 1 or 2 mm to high 😕. I only looked at this for a few minutes before deciding to rip it off and try again. I marked the planks to remove and went ahead: It came off easily enough with no damage to surroundings. I re drew the waterline: It still looks like I will have to add maple to the middle plank, but that was what turned out wrong the first time. Hmm. Time to think and then try again. I don't want to abandon the idea and paint the hull, as the wooden hull is one of the main appeals to me. I could also run a plank along the waterline and have a simple, non authentic run below the waterline, also using full plank lengths instead of the 12 cm lengths. I think that could look fine and be an aesthetic choice, but it would feel a bit like cheating with the planking! It would be much easier though. I will at least try again with the realistic run of the planks before giving up and trying the other option. BR TJM
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You are very welcome! And you are right, I completely forgot to mention that ships of the same construction is also shown - that sometimes adds a lot of relevant drawings to a subject! I just dont understand why, when they went to all of the trouble scanning thousands of drawings and the old analog indexes, they did not make a simple database with a tiny bit of metadata. It would have taken so little effort compared to the work already done to make a searchable database. Instead we have a digital copy of the analog archive, including the analog indexes. And then the system is just not very friendly for browsing! It takes alot of mouse clicks to go through the files! But the index does make all the difference when looking for specific ships. Another 'tool' is this site: https://trap.lex.dk/.taxonomy/4677 It lists many of the ships by class and includes a few low res images of drawings and models of interest. It is a bit inconsistent in the quality of the data, but it is a good way to find interesting ships and then go to the actual archive linked above to find the information 'first hand'.
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Hi Matthias, I have been following your Tre Kroner build from the start with great interest. It is really fantastic work you are doing! It was partly your work on that that got me inspired to try these adaptions of plans myself - I even started with a stern section like your build! (I have just not allowed myself to progress beyond the design and test cut stage for fear of having too many active projects). I am more than happy to discuss how to best use the Danish National Archive (Rigsarkivet), though I am not sure I have the best way! It took me a while to figure out how things are organized. It can seem like a jumbled mess! There is an index by ship name accessible here: https://arkivalieronline.rigsarkivet.dk/da/billedviser?epid=17172954#190667,31951582 The entry for Tre Kroner, as an example, looks like this: The interesting part here is the section 'Tegninger hørende til skibet' (drawings belonging to the ship), as it lists the know drawings of the ship from the differen portfolios, A, B, C, D and G. The digital archives for A especially is incomplete and some of the references are not available online. This is also to some extend true for B, C and D. However, I think the missing ones are then available in one of the other portfolios, most likely G, but there are no traceability between these! For instance, A666 is not available. It likely contained either the ornamental drawing or the profile and bulkhead drawing (because it is underlined as the main file). However, these both appear in other files. The actual drawings are available here: https://arkivalieronline.rigsarkivet.dk/da/billedviser?epid=17149179#189566,31913766 And for Tre Kroner, I find these: These are A768, A1200 a-e and G2853. The others are not available online, but this is where I suspect the they may refer to one of the other files that are available! But I can't be sure of it. Note that there are two distinct copies of the ornaments - that is actually often the case! Usually, one will carry the handwritten approval by the sitting monarch, in this case the first one, A768. This is how I navigate the archive! If you have any need for help translating something from Danish, I am more than happy to help! Just send me a PM. I am just limited by my lack of knowledge of marine terminology in both Danish and English, so I run into words that I don't know the meaning of in Danish either, even though i am a native! But I'll do my best! 😁
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Log entry 16 - an few more planks and the garboards A few more planks have been added. The pear below the yellow cedar now shows where the wales will run. I now soon have to measure up the hull to plan the tapering of the planks at the bow and have therefore added the garboard planks: This went well enough and I should be able to measure up the hull now or after one or two more planks. BR TJM
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Falster, 1810 - a gun brig with 18 pounders I have been eyeing one of the latest releases from Vanguard Models, the gun brig Adder, and the upcoming Harpy with interest. I like the older ships for their graceful curves, but I am impressed with the huge firepower these later brigs and sloops were carrying! When the British ran off with the entire Danish fleet in 1807, they got also 6 smaller gun brigs carrying 18 pound carronades. These were replaced by a new generation of gun brigs which carried 8 x 8 pounder long guns and 8 x 8 pounder short guns, not quite carronades, but of similar size for their poundage. This is something in between the aforementioned Adder and Harpy in terms of firepower, but with more long guns in the mix. Here's a few of the very many available original drawings: And here's one showing both the long and the short 18 pounders (actually almost 20 british pounds, as 1 Danish pound was around 1.09 British pounds): And then something a bit unique, at least I have not found other drawings like this one yet in the archive: This is basically a perspective drawing showing the rigging and deck fittings in great detail. From the PoV of adapting the plans to a PoF model, this is quite simple compared to some of the previous exercises. The plans from this late period are very easy to read and there are plenty of drawings to go with. I have only done the very basics for now, keel, bulkheads, braces and a little at the stern. And the the upper bulwark patterns: I was very surprised at the size! I should have used 4 mm mdf, not 3 mm! I of course knew how large it was by it's numbers, but it is something else to see it in real life. This is why I think these exercises are so fun! (it is a very good way of procrastinating....). It is also not very pretty, in my opinion! With it's very flat front and generally boxy shape and the slightly disordered gun port sizes due to the mixed gun types. But it does have some character! As mentioned, it is very large for a brig, I think. Here is a few comparison shots with my current Sphinx build (with modifications): It is close to as long and the deck is a good deal wider. Quite 'chunky'. Continuing with this, I would have to redo the prow parts, as the fit is not great, and modify the run of the bulwark patterns at the bow as well. I also made a mistake on the deck level on bulwark 15 and I would need the stern piece to be of ply to be able to bend it without cracking it. All of these were very good learnings and I feel that I am beginning to know what works and what doesn't, at least in these very early critical stages of the construction. Thanks for following along on this journey! BR TJM
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