sheepsail

A lot happening near these waters this week. Last week I did some more hacking on the bow of my model. I thought I had updated this log, Not seeing these images will start with them first. Over the last 25 or so years, I have been an organ builder. Mostly making small crank organs. Over the years I have collected a fair amount of wood, which has been in my workshop for some time now. . Some of these scraps are quite old. When a large Wurlitzer was installed the framing for the swell shades what control volume was too short. Since re-framing the chambers was out of the question the bottom foot of the shutter blades was cut off. In order to block sound this is dense wood. The organ dates to the 1920s, so this wood is at least 100 years old. With tight straight grain. I was able to use the band saw and slice off some thin strips, which could then be run through the thickness drum sander. I wanted to see how thin I could sand a piece. I then proceeded to hack up the bow of my model. Probably should not continuing to use the band saw on it, but it is so tempting. Lumber ships have doors in the bow for loading long timbers into the hold. I decided to open up this section. Turns out angles projected on one side, do not mirror on the other. This is where things get a bit interesting. Over the weekend, thelocal San Francisco Model Shipbuilders met at the Vallejo Maritime museum. I was able to meet Clare Hess @catopower In person. Clare was kind enough to loan me his research on West coast lumber schooners. Mostly relating to the C. A. Thayer. This was a large folder which included the unpublished Ron Cleveland Rigging of West Coast Barkentines and Schooners. What was most interesting was a section at the end what described how the lumber was loaded, using the donkey engine and some of the mast booms as cranes. I can not thank Clare enough for this topical info. I had already cut out the lumber ports as seen above. Not quite sure if they can be modeled. From what I learned is they were calked in place, So it looks like they were plugs inserted from the inside. which would be tricky with the solid model. An added treat, was after the meeting, a few of us went to Mare island, for lunch. Some of the Local Tall ships are currently berthed while the Hyde street pier is being refurbished. So it was interesting to see the C. A. Thayer in person. Since it never rains but pours; Clare also loaned me his Saginaw notes as well. I was going to write up some of the DELFTShip stuff as well, only to discover I had a fundamental error in my virtual model as I had the Saginaw at 152 feet instead of 155 feet. A lot of the work I have been doing is tracing over the plans with laser cutting software. I have yet to put the Forester hull into DELFTShip since this one is a physical model. Mostly I use Mac, and DELFTShip only runs on windows. I did not have the thin slabs of wood prepared last week. I was not able to access the Laser until yesterday. Now things are starting to look like kit parts. I did not have enough time to set up all the timberheads. The focus was more on the stem and bowsprit. The century old wood cuts wonderful. The thin stuff is so flexible, although it is easy to break it. Eventually the bulwarks will be glued cross grain. There is some distortion where the parts have steep curvature. Most of this will be covered with the outer planking and molding. I wanted to try setting up some of the deck. Since I over cut the hull with the band saw, I projected the centers of the timberheads onto one of the thin pieces of stock. This gives a place for them to fit into a sort of socket. Here things are with everything just set in place. One of the sticks that came in the kit box looks like it is intended for a jib boom. So it is quite fascinating to see things together for the first time. -julie

Make me realize how lucky I am to have the wreak of the Forester so close. Where I can even got down at low tide and pick up pieces and examine them. Not something most people can do. Even with countless photographs, there are still many questions. So many of these were identical, it is hard to tell them apart and know if the detail is a different ship, or was it changed over the years. Tracing over the kit drawings, shows even more discrepancy. Even when you have the evidence, questions remain. -julie

Another field trip this morning. There was a -0.3 foot tide. So most of the wreak was exposed. There is a YT video of a kid running around the wreak when it is in this condition. I found though that the mud is pretty soft, so one would sink down about a foot or so into it. I loaded in more of the plans to lightburn. Then copied over the existing templates what I cut with the laser. There was too much tilt between the two images. Bit lazy to re photograph them. I was attempting to align the two half images with the shroud stays. So having looked for a couple days at these on the plan this was the photo I wanted. Shows some nice construction detail. I also notice there were a few of these braces visible near the stern. This is the port side looking aft. Such would be a good candidate for the fiber laser, such could be cut from old used razor blades. Looks like the ship has a few visitors. See if you can spot them. There was an interesting piece of driftwood. I took some photos of it. There was a time when such things were fair game, now with 1000s of people enjoying this it is probably best to leave it in place. Would be fun to use some actual wood in the model. Not sure how often that is done. But this is not the place to do that. Besides I like the pun. I probably should make one of those archeological poles with the tape on them. Although for the most part it is hard to get close to the actual wreak. Which is quite large. The driftwood was about 2 feet by 10 or so inches. It is interesting to study the wood. Looks like common fir, not to different than framing lumber. Nice straight grain. Probably excellent for making a violin, since it has been pickled in brine for 50 years. Here is a closeup of the critters what were attached to it. Can not really have a ship without barnacles. While I was there, group of about 20 people came by to pose for a group photo with the wreak in the background. Pretty good for something that has been rotting away for 50 years. Probably will not be much visible in the next 10 to 20 years or so. Surprising that there is so much metal. Some accounts were that some of these ships were burned just to recover the metal. What looked earlier like carriage bolts, are probably spikes used to hold things together. Which make me think of Nemi and Sutton Hoo where only the spikes were left. I am thinking of hacking away more of the bow on the model, slotting back to the samson post. May also cut into the front where the lumber loading doors were. In the photo the planking changes direction at that point. Wonder how they closed them to keep them water tight? No hinges are visible in the photographs. The instructions show some large (almost out of scale) hinges. -julie

I came to these forums, while being a caregiver to my late dad. Was something I could do as there was a lot of demand on my and my mother's time. So we had two of us. My heart goes out to you.

I have had positive results with DELFTShip. There are some great tutorials on that as well. Finding out if everything is not absolutely aligned, the surfaces can track wildly since the curve control points are not linear. The farther one is away from the tangent the wider the swing. When done in a traditional 3D solid modeling surfacing program can lead to lumpy patterns. For most of this modeling the fewer control points the better. So I have been going back and forth between the 2D drawings and DELFTShip. Depending on the scale single pixel on a low res scan can represent 1 to 3 inches or more on the model. I think this process is called fairing. There is a lot of rinse and repeat when tracing over things. DELFTShip can export STL. Which can then be imported into the Solid modeling program. It also comes with an online database of 100s of ship hulls. These are interesting to look at to see where the control points are placed. The paid version can export IGES, which is probably overkill for the sort of simple modeling done. Since we are not doing dynamic simulations.

Cut out some deck templates last night. Wound up making 3 sets as I got the settings/ origin wrong. Here it is sailing on a wooden sea... None of this is actual modeling wood. Just mdf paneling with a faux wooden grain on one side. This is mostly to get a feel for scale, now small wood for decking or side planking would need to be. I did draw lines for the crew quarters roof. The kit came with a bunch of sticks, Including some what look intended for masts. They are a bit undersized. These masts always look like telephone poles. They do fit into the main deck template for which I have three. I do find it impressive that they dry fit into the template (which will be used for drilling the steppes. Does also give an idea for the Bulwarks and timberheads. The mdf bends nicely. The included tiny sticks also bend surprisingly well. Will be interesting to see what the thickness sander does. I am thinking that I might be able to laser etch some of this detail. The tide was way out this morning so I received some photos of the remaining mast shroud turnbuckle. Looks like these were just bolted into the planks. Friday and Sat AM should be '-' a foot or so. In the photos there is no real deadeye. It almost looks like the shrouds were wire rope. It is also interesting that much of the ship was bolted together, with what look like carriage bolts. -julie

Starting to get more serious with modeling. I chopped the bulwarks and deck houses off the block. Removing the fore and aft rails worked great. So I got a bit bold. And the saw got away from me as one would expect. This was an older Delta saw (nearly impossible to get blades for.) The center barely fit under with it all the way up. The block got stuck. So I had to reverse the block and the angle was different. I plan to deck this model anyway, so it will be a bit more work to level it back out. The goal was to preserve as much of the blocks as possible for later re use. The plan is to use the laser engraver to make a lot of the fittings. I have a fairly detailed photo (although the contrast on the hull could be better) This shows the forward deck, Donkey engine, and crew quarters. This is under cut, so I decided to cut back to station 2. The templates work great. So I started laying out the top view which should help position the decks. This will also let me laser cut timberheads for the bulwarks. I have a small drum thickness sander, what I use for organ pipes. Also a bunch of old scrap wood to plane down. Some pipes get as thin as 2mm. Which can actually seem fairly large, when working with small things. The plans of the aft structures are a bit different than the photos. Photos show a wider companion way. Which also sort of looks like a pilot house, as there is a round port hole on the starboard side. Some photos show a door in in the narrow side. I doubt that I will model the sails (pretty as they are.) I think Charlie was a bit of a compulsive hoarder. From what I remember the decks were covered in all sorts of junk. It was hard to actually see up there. The field glasses we had 50 years ago were not all that great. I sort of remember it was a jumble of stuff. This was after pretty much what ever could be stripped was. It is also hard to make out If the Donkey engine was still present in the later years. The plans do not show the skylights on either end of the crew quarters/mechanical room that are in the photos. So the question remains, to model in the operational state? Or in the later state when it was first laid up when most of the rigging was still present. -julie

Giggle customizes the results depending on location. So I get different results for that search depending where I am and what I have viewed in the past. A few months back I got next to nothing. Now I am flooded with results. I have been doing a lot of reverse image searching. This data is out there if one has patience and perseverance. There is a craigslist image which shows a completed model. This same listing with the same photo is also on eBay. The auction states this is a what it should look like. That one now comes up near the top of my search. This is what I was referring to as the 'box' photograph. If this kit is as rare as some indicate, now is the time to get one, as these things tend to turn up in in batches. Or at least they do with watches and cameras. The seller I bought mine from has another much like it. I started nibbling on the wood to fit the templates, so I will be doing what I can to complete this. Not sure what I will do with the templates and cores when I am done. It would be nice to see others working on this.

Since I cut some laser templates, it time to start a build log for the Forester. I did extensive preliminary research in this (thread.) The Forester was one of many West Coast lumber schooners. These were built to similar plans and specifications. Without careful study it is hard to tell them apart. (caption May. 1931 At west end of Government Island, from left to right: COMMERCE, SAMAR (built 1901; schooner, 4m) , JOHN ENA (built 1892; bark, 4m) dismasted and behind COMMERCE and SAMAR, DUNSYRE (built 1891; ship, 3m), FORESTER (built 1900; schooner , 4m) rigged down, PHILLIPINE (built 1899; schooner, 4m) jibboom in, JAMES ROLPH (built 1881; ship, 3m), GOLDEN SHORE (built 1899; schooner,4m), and GOLDEN GATE (built 1888; bark, 4m) ) Of this class of ship, the Forester is probably the best documented. It was built in 1900 and retired in the early 1930s after being used as a temporary fender during the construction of the Carquinez Bridge in the late 1920s. This bridge complex is now interstate 80 near Mare Island, Vallejo. The ship was then used as a houseboat on the Martinez shoreline, by it's only captain Otto Daeweritz and later Charlie Fitzgerald. In 1975 it burned to the water line. The remaining parts of the lower hull remain in the regional shoreline park, visited by 1000s of people a year. One of the more accessible large shipwrecks there are many photographs online showing it operational and in the slowly deteriorating condition. In the early 1960s it was dis-masted and much of the ships rigging was removed by the SF maritime museum. Some of the items have also been spread about with parts used in the Tonga room (Tiki bar at the Fairmount San Francisco) Online searches show the bowsprit in San Diego. Charlie Fitzgerald did his best to keep people from collecting souvenirs. These are said to be in collections about town. I remember him shouting at me when I got too close to the ship. I also watched the ship burn. It was in the evening and quite visible. This is a photograph zoomed in taken from our driveway about a mile and half away shortly before the ship burned in 1975. Research shows that the kit plans which are dated 1951-1957 are a composite of these ships. Mostly Forester and Commerce. Photos of both ships are included in the kit for detail suggestions. The main differentiation is in the Officer's cabin windows which are rectangular in the Commerce plans and round port holes in Forester photographs. It looks like some of these were also extensivly modified when the ship was converted to a houseboat. A third ship in photographs Phillipean was also used as a temporary fender in the 1920s. At the time of writing this log the fate of the other ships is not known. Over the last century it is possible there are some misattribution of these photographs. I created a thread here for discussion of these differences. There were at least two commercial 'kit' models labeled 'Forester' produced. A "Yellow Box" Model Shipways and a plastic Lindburg model. So at one time this was a popular ship to model. No photographs of completed model from this kit were found other than the box photo. This log will cover the Model Shipways example. At the time of this log, there were a few of these for sale in various online marketplaces. There is also a print dated 1968 which is based on the 1951 drawings. The kit is rather rough in contents. The instructions quite sparse. With only a few simple paragraphs describing the finishing of the hull. Which basically states to carve the bulwarks to size and then sand the hull to shape and paint it. This kit was missing many of the blocks and all of the metal fittings. So there will be quite a bit of kit bashing involved. The kit also had a mostly complete set of plans, which was what I wanted. The rest of the instructions and the plans do have drawings on things like rigging the bowsprite bob stays and the other masts. Most of this is fairly generic, and would have been common knowledge to post war kitbuilders. The first step was to make digital copies of the plans. Ideally this would be done with a flat bed scanner. For expediency the images were photographed on a copy stand and stitched together using a panorama app. The results were then traced in the program Lightburn for cutting on a large bed laser engraving machine. There was some pin barrel distortion in the center of the image. Given the small scale of the model this was deemed acceptable and in some places compensated for. The resulting templates are a good fit for the plans themselves. According to my 3/32 ruler these variations are within 3 inches of scale. The sparse kit 'instructions.' do indicate that the stem and stern need the most fitting. which is consistent with the resulting templates. For fun the full set of templates were test fitted to the hull block. This shows the close fit. The laser leaves interesting waste (enough for a second plank on bulkhead model if desired.) These were numbered. one side of the template was also left longer to use as a handle for holding. The templates also work as a sort of temporary cradle. Downside is the template sides tend to get soot over things, which can be wiped off. -julie

I am finding this log most fascinating. Since I am studying the local 4 masted design, such as the Forester. I recently acquired an older model shipways "Yellow Box" 1:128 variation. So the various build details look to be quite useful. I especially like the laser cut timber heads. It is good to see an interest in these west coast lumber schooners. -julie

Ooohhh pretty pictures. Too bad here is not a :heart: Icon in the reply emojis. will have to do for an extream like. (hope I am using the emoji right.)

How curious. I spent the afternoon reading through the logs using the term "solid hull" and "yellow box" given that I just ordered one from eBay recently. Mostly to get the plans. For a ship with few images here "Forrester" seems to turn up a lot in somewhat random searches. -j

I started a new topic on this which includes photographs.

I never asked to be a polymath. It just sort of happened. No one really cares about things past. Unless it can be bought, sold or traded. I am re reading one of my favorite time travel stories, Jack Finney's Time and again. This is one of many variations on the Twilight zone premise of love crosses boundaries of time. Sadly this book will probably never be filmed and can never be filmed. Matheson's Somewhere in time was filmed and there were lawsuits. (But Finney is the author of the book in the Christopher Reve film. An inside joke.) See the intro to the Princess bride for the full story. Ironically Princess bride was filmed. Even though it was unfilmable. The plot does show up often and Kate & Leopold did a good job with it. Time and again can never be filmed because Somewhere in time was filmed. as was Time after Time. Not only that but the book may have caused the death of John Lennon. in the real world. (You would have to read it to find out why.) Then again this was also a favorite book of Carl Sagan, and Steven King. The idea is that if you can surround yourself with enough keys to the past you can be come part of the past. Knowledge of history is power. In Finneys version it is a government project. Huge secret warehouse. Classes etc. Much like the way Ren Faires are done. 'Drop the penny' has a negative connotation in cosplay societies. And can affect social media groups. Reading the Saginaw, (I read books in parallel) that puts one into the lives of these 19th century sailors, can get quite heady. The ownership about ideas becomes about power. Sadly a failing with how modern science works. Archeology gets embargoed. One ship I would love to model is the Antikeythera ship. I noted some of this in the above intro. I spent years studying this as a hobbiest. Eventually I met some of the researchers. Who were in town looking for some silicon valley funding. I may eventually post here walls o' text on the subject. Cousteau did dives to this. Ol Pirate Jaque found his treasure. Coins that date the wreak. Yet finding anything about this wreak is hitting an academic brick wall. A single Greek letter in an Xray scan can change whole meanings about historical scholarship. Expose lies. In this world information can be used to launder money. (like in the hidden sub plot of the recent Andor star wars spinoff.) George Lucas and his Acolytes are sneaky. I guess I left out the part in my intro where I have a two year technical degree in film making and did Apprentice work with Sprocket systems. So I saw the models up close. It does really make one question the illusions of free will. There is no creativity in hollywood. All paint by numbers kit assembly. Why I chose apple. Fakes like Piltdown man damage what history means to the common person. There are museums which have 1000s of bones, which statistically show people can be classed into well castes. Now museums are bad things. I was a big fan of the likes of Conan Doyle. Houdini, Rbt Houdine etc. (perhaps I should do a blog under shore leave on how ships influenced these guys and why I want a model of the challenger.) Doyle really believed they were going to find Atlantis. So did Cousteau. (And got the Greek government to pay for it.) So we all know what Nelson and his ships are famous for. Trafalgar Right? See who my avatar is. It is an exercise for the reader. Lord Elgin chartered those ships. (not unlike the roman senator did.) Removing the front of the Parthenon which the Greeks had blown up. Napoleon was stealing the nose of the sphinx and the Rosetta stone. NASA still suffers from the whole face on mars fiasco. So everything has to be checked and vetted. (Although the engineering data does come down in real time, but only a few can interpret it.) Pareidolia is probably why roman ships have faces. (and do cars and spacecraft.) It looks like there were problems with the shore leave section. This may be a better place to follow on with these Ideas. Why do we see faces in things like ships and such. The short of it is that when you live the past, you start seeing things that are not what they seem. Complex ideas get turned into simple memes which can mean different things to different people. Not exactly the big lie, because the big lie is a lie. I think the past is something best observed from years or decades in the future. Not so why so many people want to return to it. Not so fun when you live it. Then again, from one point of view of those Greko Roman sailors, I am a person living thousands of years in the future in a mythical land, who's myths were not even created till Some arab traders wrote them down a thousand years in my past. Not so sure why people want to return to the middle of the 20th century. The thirteenth was pretty good, I might have been happy there. I think most people do want to return to the thirteenth century. Nothing really happened then. (That is the 11 and 1200s for those who count on fingers) Yet people confuse that with the 14th. The black death only lasted four years. How much information was lost in those four years. Castles and Cathedrals were already 100s of years old then. Now forget we are 1/4 the way into the twenty first. And it was the victorians who had the catchphrase "what to do about people who wanted to live in every century but their own. " Or as my old Friend Buckaroo Banzai would say. "No matter where you go, there you are."