sheepsail

Giggle customizes the results depending on location. So I get different results for that search depending where I am and what I have viewed in the past. A few months back I got next to nothing. Now I am flooded with results. I have been doing a lot of reverse image searching. This data is out there if one has patience and perseverance. There is a craigslist image which shows a completed model. This same listing with the same photo is also on eBay. The auction states this is a what it should look like. That one now comes up near the top of my search. This is what I was referring to as the 'box' photograph. If this kit is as rare as some indicate, now is the time to get one, as these things tend to turn up in in batches. Or at least they do with watches and cameras. The seller I bought mine from has another much like it. I started nibbling on the wood to fit the templates, so I will be doing what I can to complete this. Not sure what I will do with the templates and cores when I am done. It would be nice to see others working on this.

Since I cut some laser templates, it time to start a build log for the Forester. I did extensive preliminary research in this (thread.) The Forester was one of many West Coast lumber schooners. These were built to similar plans and specifications. Without careful study it is hard to tell them apart. (caption May. 1931 At west end of Government Island, from left to right: COMMERCE, SAMAR (built 1901; schooner, 4m) , JOHN ENA (built 1892; bark, 4m) dismasted and behind COMMERCE and SAMAR, DUNSYRE (built 1891; ship, 3m), FORESTER (built 1900; schooner , 4m) rigged down, PHILLIPINE (built 1899; schooner, 4m) jibboom in, JAMES ROLPH (built 1881; ship, 3m), GOLDEN SHORE (built 1899; schooner,4m), and GOLDEN GATE (built 1888; bark, 4m) ) Of this class of ship, the Forester is probably the best documented. It was built in 1900 and retired in the early 1930s after being used as a temporary fender during the construction of the Carquinez Bridge in the late 1920s. This bridge complex is now interstate 80 near Mare Island, Vallejo. The ship was then used as a houseboat on the Martinez shoreline, by it's only captain Otto Daeweritz and later Charlie Fitzgerald. In 1975 it burned to the water line. The remaining parts of the lower hull remain in the regional shoreline park, visited by 1000s of people a year. One of the more accessible large shipwrecks there are many photographs online showing it operational and in the slowly deteriorating condition. In the early 1960s it was dis-masted and much of the ships rigging was removed by the SF maritime museum. Some of the items have also been spread about with parts used in the Tonga room (Tiki bar at the Fairmount San Francisco) Online searches show the bowsprit in San Diego. Charlie Fitzgerald did his best to keep people from collecting souvenirs. These are said to be in collections about town. I remember him shouting at me when I got too close to the ship. I also watched the ship burn. It was in the evening and quite visible. This is a photograph zoomed in taken from our driveway about a mile and half away shortly before the ship burned in 1975. Research shows that the kit plans which are dated 1951-1957 are a composite of these ships. Mostly Forester and Commerce. Photos of both ships are included in the kit for detail suggestions. The main differentiation is in the Officer's cabin windows which are rectangular in the Commerce plans and round port holes in Forester photographs. It looks like some of these were also extensivly modified when the ship was converted to a houseboat. A third ship in photographs Phillipean was also used as a temporary fender in the 1920s. At the time of writing this log the fate of the other ships is not known. Over the last century it is possible there are some misattribution of these photographs. I created a thread here for discussion of these differences. There were at least two commercial 'kit' models labeled 'Forester' produced. A "Yellow Box" Model Shipways and a plastic Lindburg model. So at one time this was a popular ship to model. No photographs of completed model from this kit were found other than the box photo. This log will cover the Model Shipways example. At the time of this log, there were a few of these for sale in various online marketplaces. There is also a print dated 1968 which is based on the 1951 drawings. The kit is rather rough in contents. The instructions quite sparse. With only a few simple paragraphs describing the finishing of the hull. Which basically states to carve the bulwarks to size and then sand the hull to shape and paint it. This kit was missing many of the blocks and all of the metal fittings. So there will be quite a bit of kit bashing involved. The kit also had a mostly complete set of plans, which was what I wanted. The rest of the instructions and the plans do have drawings on things like rigging the bowsprite bob stays and the other masts. Most of this is fairly generic, and would have been common knowledge to post war kitbuilders. The first step was to make digital copies of the plans. Ideally this would be done with a flat bed scanner. For expediency the images were photographed on a copy stand and stitched together using a panorama app. The results were then traced in the program Lightburn for cutting on a large bed laser engraving machine. There was some pin barrel distortion in the center of the image. Given the small scale of the model this was deemed acceptable and in some places compensated for. The resulting templates are a good fit for the plans themselves. According to my 3/32 ruler these variations are within 3 inches of scale. The sparse kit 'instructions.' do indicate that the stem and stern need the most fitting. which is consistent with the resulting templates. For fun the full set of templates were test fitted to the hull block. This shows the close fit. The laser leaves interesting waste (enough for a second plank on bulkhead model if desired.) These were numbered. one side of the template was also left longer to use as a handle for holding. The templates also work as a sort of temporary cradle. Downside is the template sides tend to get soot over things, which can be wiped off. -julie

I am finding this log most fascinating. Since I am studying the local 4 masted design, such as the Forester. I recently acquired an older model shipways "Yellow Box" 1:128 variation. So the various build details look to be quite useful. I especially like the laser cut timber heads. It is good to see an interest in these west coast lumber schooners. -julie

Ooohhh pretty pictures. Too bad here is not a :heart: Icon in the reply emojis. will have to do for an extream like. (hope I am using the emoji right.)

How curious. I spent the afternoon reading through the logs using the term "solid hull" and "yellow box" given that I just ordered one from eBay recently. Mostly to get the plans. For a ship with few images here "Forrester" seems to turn up a lot in somewhat random searches. -j

I started a new topic on this which includes photographs.

I never asked to be a polymath. It just sort of happened. No one really cares about things past. Unless it can be bought, sold or traded. I am re reading one of my favorite time travel stories, Jack Finney's Time and again. This is one of many variations on the Twilight zone premise of love crosses boundaries of time. Sadly this book will probably never be filmed and can never be filmed. Matheson's Somewhere in time was filmed and there were lawsuits. (But Finney is the author of the book in the Christopher Reve film. An inside joke.) See the intro to the Princess bride for the full story. Ironically Princess bride was filmed. Even though it was unfilmable. The plot does show up often and Kate & Leopold did a good job with it. Time and again can never be filmed because Somewhere in time was filmed. as was Time after Time. Not only that but the book may have caused the death of John Lennon. in the real world. (You would have to read it to find out why.) Then again this was also a favorite book of Carl Sagan, and Steven King. The idea is that if you can surround yourself with enough keys to the past you can be come part of the past. Knowledge of history is power. In Finneys version it is a government project. Huge secret warehouse. Classes etc. Much like the way Ren Faires are done. 'Drop the penny' has a negative connotation in cosplay societies. And can affect social media groups. Reading the Saginaw, (I read books in parallel) that puts one into the lives of these 19th century sailors, can get quite heady. The ownership about ideas becomes about power. Sadly a failing with how modern science works. Archeology gets embargoed. One ship I would love to model is the Antikeythera ship. I noted some of this in the above intro. I spent years studying this as a hobbiest. Eventually I met some of the researchers. Who were in town looking for some silicon valley funding. I may eventually post here walls o' text on the subject. Cousteau did dives to this. Ol Pirate Jaque found his treasure. Coins that date the wreak. Yet finding anything about this wreak is hitting an academic brick wall. A single Greek letter in an Xray scan can change whole meanings about historical scholarship. Expose lies. In this world information can be used to launder money. (like in the hidden sub plot of the recent Andor star wars spinoff.) George Lucas and his Acolytes are sneaky. I guess I left out the part in my intro where I have a two year technical degree in film making and did Apprentice work with Sprocket systems. So I saw the models up close. It does really make one question the illusions of free will. There is no creativity in hollywood. All paint by numbers kit assembly. Why I chose apple. Fakes like Piltdown man damage what history means to the common person. There are museums which have 1000s of bones, which statistically show people can be classed into well castes. Now museums are bad things. I was a big fan of the likes of Conan Doyle. Houdini, Rbt Houdine etc. (perhaps I should do a blog under shore leave on how ships influenced these guys and why I want a model of the challenger.) Doyle really believed they were going to find Atlantis. So did Cousteau. (And got the Greek government to pay for it.) So we all know what Nelson and his ships are famous for. Trafalgar Right? See who my avatar is. It is an exercise for the reader. Lord Elgin chartered those ships. (not unlike the roman senator did.) Removing the front of the Parthenon which the Greeks had blown up. Napoleon was stealing the nose of the sphinx and the Rosetta stone. NASA still suffers from the whole face on mars fiasco. So everything has to be checked and vetted. (Although the engineering data does come down in real time, but only a few can interpret it.) Pareidolia is probably why roman ships have faces. (and do cars and spacecraft.) It looks like there were problems with the shore leave section. This may be a better place to follow on with these Ideas. Why do we see faces in things like ships and such. The short of it is that when you live the past, you start seeing things that are not what they seem. Complex ideas get turned into simple memes which can mean different things to different people. Not exactly the big lie, because the big lie is a lie. I think the past is something best observed from years or decades in the future. Not so why so many people want to return to it. Not so fun when you live it. Then again, from one point of view of those Greko Roman sailors, I am a person living thousands of years in the future in a mythical land, who's myths were not even created till Some arab traders wrote them down a thousand years in my past. Not so sure why people want to return to the middle of the 20th century. The thirteenth was pretty good, I might have been happy there. I think most people do want to return to the thirteenth century. Nothing really happened then. (That is the 11 and 1200s for those who count on fingers) Yet people confuse that with the 14th. The black death only lasted four years. How much information was lost in those four years. Castles and Cathedrals were already 100s of years old then. Now forget we are 1/4 the way into the twenty first. And it was the victorians who had the catchphrase "what to do about people who wanted to live in every century but their own. " Or as my old Friend Buckaroo Banzai would say. "No matter where you go, there you are."

I just stumbled across this log searching for how to spell 'Galilee,' 'Turner' was a simpler search term to remember. I actually watched this ship being built. Working security at the Sausalito art festival. Where it was on the other side of the fence. I actually saw it just hours after the launch. As I was working the overnight shift. Much of the wood was milled on site. Was always interesting to see how much waste there was. Could be part of my inspiration from wanting to scratch build something. Hard to realize that was in 2017. Interesting that there is a model kit out. My interest do remain more with scratch building. Most likely to start with 3D CAD data in something like DELFTship. So it is interesting to see how the parts are laid out. All the pins and clamps make it look more like aeroplane building. I suspect Turner's shipyards were probably visible outside our windows on the opposite shore. For now I want to focus more on the Saginaw and the Forester. Starting to see the similarity to the C. A. Thayer. -j

Has anyone used the old typewriter carbon paper to simulate tar paper? I think this is still sold as tracing paper. It is pretty thin. I think there are also fine glitters what could be used to simulate the quartz gravel. Not sure how well sugar last over the years. I have heard of Kosher salt being used in modeling to simulate snow in scale. Graphite is soot, which contains things like carbon nanotubes and bucky balls. Not stuff you want in the lungs. Laser printer toner is a thermal microplastic. That could also be used to texture simulated tar paper, and it is heat set, so would melt like tar. I can not remember if india ink is carbon or iron based. Home despot carries cement blacking which is pure iron oxide as a really fine powder. A magnet will stick to the plastic jar. Useful for making conductive ink. Mix with an oil, with alcohol or lighter fluid as a drying agent. -j

Not sure if cuckoo clock bevels are this large. Some pocket watches use bevels in the time setting section. Wrist watches use a sliding pinion clutch with a crown wheel. Sometimes these are beveled. I have a book called Gears for small mechanisms. Automotive stuff changed everything according to that book. My impression is that bevel and other gears were pretty much sand cast. Casting sands were much finer. I suspect this may have lead like coal mining to an increased rate of silicosis and lung disease. There is a lot of technology what has been lost. Industrially they would have been hobbed or finished with a shaper. For model work, one can do the clean up with a file. Which is how gears were shaped before industrialization. In some ways chain drive makes more sense. Lumber mills used chains to move the logs through the saws. These were often run by donkey engines. We think of such chain as bicycle chain. Pretty easy to make. Watch fuzzes used such chain that is microscopic in size. The drive gears can be made with a simple drill press. Tower clocks used both bevel gears and chain.

I have been working with laser for six or 7 years (pre pandemic.) If one counts sending stuff out then the number is closer to 25 years. One reason this laser was doated (loaned to the makerspace) was it was in the owner's garage prior to downsizing. Even in the light industrial space it has to have a fairly significant exhaust system. Newly cut parts usually have a burned smell. This one has about a 1 meter square bed. It only can cut up to about 1/4 plywood. Lasers have a focal point, so there will always be a taper to the cut. I did have some fairly thick parts cut for a smallish Calliope Pipe organ decades ago. The largest thickness about an inch and a quarter. Most CNC machines are only as good as the lead screws and bearing. There are fiber lasers what are optical, and use galvonomiters they have lens distortion and only cut small things that are less than about 3x3 inches. Small crafting lasers show up from time to time. I found a couple in e-Waste recycle. Not much use, they used old floppy disk/Cd drive plates for the axis. These do not do vector cutting, only rastering. My recommendation. (which is basically what I did.) Is to seek out a shared workspace like a makerspace or library that has the equipment. Often these are underused. The local one gets used a lot before the winter holidays. I find it helps to have my own copy of the software (Lightburn.) Which works a bit like Adobe illustrator, and can trace over the illustrations. That way I can work on the designs, and have them ready to go. This also has the option where one can send them out should something more be needed. At the moment I am working on seeing how well this works to create some basic ship parts. So this is an interesting area to explore. It does however become a whole side focus (pun intended) and can vacuum up time with ease. I have made everything from watch parts to plush toys to photographic equipment. They can be versatile.

The whole San Francisco bay and delta is full of old shipwrecks. One issue are the Chinese ships, which used a type of ballast stone what dated back to the exploration ships of the 15th century. So it is not just western ships what have left traces here.

Incredulous work here. I feel a bit of imposter syndrome making comments here. I am really amazed at all the fine work. Especially with the vacuum formed canopy. I recently got my vacuum form machine out of storage and onto a table at the local maker space. Nice to see some love for one of the oft overlooked and underrated WWII planes.

Not really into engines or things. Still there is something about the merlin engine. They seem to be close to perfection. Curious how they used crushed walnut shells in the finishing process to achieve the tight tolerances. My mentor some times used crushed walnut shells in his tool and die shop. His hobby though was making clocks and collecting watches. Some really nice detail work here. Can you set it up to also feather the blades? I find that a most intriguing feature.

Congratulations on your nice work. This is a model I would like to sometime scratch build. One of the more interesting WWII planes as they were made from wood. Easy to build, production could be about anywhere. Lots of women built these. Not exactly high on my project list. I do look at the plans from time to time and speculate cutting out parts on the laser. Would not even be a back burner project. more of something in the pantry. Or still out in the garden. Still I find logs like this inspiring. Thanks for sharing it with others.

I miss the TRMA. It wan not a site I visited often. Perhaps once or twice a month. The last thing the world needs is another model of the Titanic. I did however enjoy the modeling process, along with research involving support ships such as the Nomadic and the CS Mackay-Bennett. My real passions are watch making and pipe organ building. Those are the forums I mostly follow. I also have a side interest in volcanoes. Years ago I worked for Apple in the Imaging division. I was one of the people known as a Postscript Guru. I got to know everything there is to know about that printer language. I even use Postscript as a general purpose scripting language. I tested fonts, the command line backchannel, and the color imaging operations. The language can parse anything. When I was in school in the 1970s, I found a book on how spacecraft cameras work. By chance in one of the non Apple contracts around 1995 I worked for a company that acquired Itek. The company what made the cameras for the 1960s and 1970s era spacecraft. Not exactly a model ship, I did in the last decade modify a card model of one of the Mariner class spacecraft to represent Mariner 9. Which is my favorite. I downloaded nearly 8000 images, which are difficult to read do to data loss and obsolete file formats. Quite interesting to see images no one has looked at in over 50 years. When I was little I did a lot of card modeling. Usually the 'Mayflower.' We visited the site and the ship in 1967, when I was about 7. I remember I liked to put them into bottles. Usually Orange crush, which had clear sides. Was really disappointed when we got back to the hotel room and the maid had cleared all the bottles. Back then it was much easier to recover the deposits as the bottles were washed and refilled. I also collected cathedrals. These however take up a lot of space. St Peters sat on top of the refrigerator for years, till the apostles got quite dusty. It got to the point where I simply let them sit in their flat packs. Two writers I really like are Charles Dickens, and Nevil Shute (Norway). I have all of their published works. Jane Austin also rates as I have all her stuff too. Bit of a romantic I guess. For forty years, I have been involved with the Dickens Christmas fair. Also the Northern California Pirate festival. My education is actually in Film and theater. I designed sets and stuff for the Big Renaissance faire held in Northern California (Black point.) We had a full size mock up of the Golden Hind as one of our stages. (I re-did the Lord Mayors gate house, when the prior one collapsed.) Nevil Shute wrote a book every Modeler/Miniature mechanic should read. It is called 'Trustee from the Toolroom.' Such is about Sailing ships and small steam engines. Even Petrol Engines. This gave me a real interest in scratch building stuff. There were not a lot of Dickens Fairs in the 1990s. I found myself, as part of the group running Science Fiction conventions. Even back in the 1980s I would wear my Victorian dresses and watchmaker loupes. Eventually this became something called steampunk. The word comes from some novels written back then. I was one of the first people to re-enact Ada Lovelace. (really Ada King, nee Byron) I think what I really collect is information. Over the years I have collected almost everything public about the Antikythera mechanism. As well As Babbage's analytical engines. My real passion is the mechanical automatons by the Jaquet-Droz what can write, draw and play musical instruments. There are also tiny mechanical birds the size of postage stamps what play mechanically. I collect these as well. Image processing lead me into the world of Photogrameritry. Which is recovering data from multiple photographs. I also acquired a rather good CAD program back in the 1990s which I still use. This is a subject unto itself. I have spent years messing about with obsolete code drivers and such. The mathematics behind this are complex and I barely scratched the surface. To this effect I collect old photography equipment 3D camera stuff and recently since no one wants them APS cameras. I also have a Photo CD film scanner, and started to make a Holographic projector, until I found the former. I have a full woodworking shop with some metal working tools. Everything to build a pipe organ. I also became active in the local Makerspace, what is in an industrial area. They have the usual 3D printers, Along with Welding equipment, CNC machines, and my favorite an industrial Laser cutter with about a 1 meter square bed. Can only cut about 1/4 inch stuff. There is a lot one can do with that thickness. I built a vacuum forming press for one of the pipe organ projects (to replicate the plaster grill molds.) I considered making model airplanes. Like the ones Neville Shute wrote about. I joined some of the modeling sites to download plans of his planes. None of these were like the TRMA. Most of the builds seemed to be one and done. Copied from old magazines and such. I really want to do some of the merlin engine craft like the spitfire, and the mosquito. Few people realize these were mostly built by women. The plane though I really want is an Airspeed Oxford, which Shute(Norway) and his partner (Tittle) designed. Like the cathedrals, and the mariner 9 spacecraft, these would likely up space and collect dust. I have enough projects for 500 years or more. Somehow into all this mess enter the Endurance. Yes, that ship. I sort of mixed up Franklin and Shackleton at first. A pole is a pole, right? The Dickensian ships were a bit tubby for my taste. But the lines of the Endurance, (along with the Aurora, and discovery are beautiful.) Somewhere along the lines I found one of the MSW endurance blogs in 2020 or 2021. Which showed all the laser cut parts. There were also additional notes showing how to fix some of the details. I squirreled all this away in my vast collection of data. When the ship was actually found, I went to my steammodel folder, only to find I had restored a backup from 2013 over it and all the images were lost. A reverse image search lead me back here. I am seriously considering bulding this from the redrawn lines I found here. One book I really liked was called 'The wreak of the Sagwina.' By Keith Robinson, who wrote a lot of popular JA books. This one was probably the least popular in the school library, but I found it quite interesting. By chance the Dickens sets were stored in the old Mare Island coal sheds. More chance last year our maker booth (laser maze) was in front of self same shed with a huge banner of the Sagwina above it. (another subject unto itself.) So this ship is also high on the wish list of models to build. Someone here started a model, it seems like it was never finished, although it is marked so. Before the Titanic was found I would have said that the Andra Doria was the most well known passenger ship sinking (at least outside war, since the Lusitania was a war casualty.) Joining MSW is something that has been in the background ever since I became TRMA homeless. I have been reading it for many years, and some of the regulars actually feel like aquantances. I sort of intentionally avoided these forums , as there are too many ships. The best thing though is to choose a few ships to focus on and do one's best to ignore the rest.