piratepete007

Nigel - you answer is succinct and pristine and shows an understanding of marketing skills ! The market out there must be very competitive and so to survive, something different must be offered. That is why Euromodel does so well by presenting ships such as a mixture of German, French and English origins with a mix of frigates and merchantman-type uses. I have made my comments (above) regarding the Ajax so nothing further there. The magnificent Friederich Wilhelm (add on 'zu Pferde' for 'horseman') is the ship of my dreams. Not on my wish list but currently building her and the challenges she poses are just so fascinating. Opportunities for a little wood carving are thrown in as well. I have just completed (almost) - bar the painting - the construction of one of her boats and must admit this was something I was prepared to ignore. Just a marvelous diversion from the actual ship. Refer to 'Euromodel Interpretive Files' and Ship's Boat'  postings which I am about to do.

Jean-Pierre made a comment about the standard of anchor size in Euromodel's kits. In looking at ships like the Royal William (and others), the data contained in historical records shows just how variable anchor size is between ships. How many builders just accept the anchors provided and assume that they are naturally correct ? For this reason, Euromodel supplies a limited range of anchor sizes all of which allow for individuals to modify their size as they wish. Their drawings in each case do give a good indication of correct size. From what I have seen (and I may be wrong) drawings from elsewhere do not necessarily state anchor dimensions. In the case of the Royal William, I took on the challenge of re-shaping the anchors to what they should be and that in itself was an interesting exercise. Two photos attached illustrate some of what I did.

Having read the above comments regarding the Euromodel Ajax, I feel that some reply is necessary. The plans for all their ships were drawn up by a naval architect, a Mr. Sellas and all were based on primary resources rather than imagination. Much has been said about about the authenticity of this ship and the problem here is that the drawings were based on a German dockyard construction set of references that were returned to that dockyard and have since been lost. The truth of the matter is that the naval architect in question was of impeccable character and it is unlikely that he would have 'fudged' the accuracy. The drawings came from the architect and not the company itself.

I know that many will not agree with my explanation but with the background information regarding Euromodel that I now have,I felt moved to 'stand up'.

The other confusing issue for us all is that having researched through both large and some very small museums in England, I know that there were a number of ships around those times bearing that name. To compound things further, it was not unusual for a captured ship in good repair to be modified, restored and re-badged with another name. So to look back through the records of just names will often not produce the desired result.

I agree with the comment regarding the standard of materials and drawings in the Euromodel kits. They are first class.

For those who have read some of my material, I have been producing interpretive files for each of Euromodel ships on their web site. They are not build logs but are reference material relating to how I am building their ships. It is a massive task but I am continually adding to these rather extensive files. I do this only because I love editing and not for any other financial or commercial gain (there is none). Why Euromodel ? Well, they offered space on their website so I went for it. Yes, in past years, there were only minimal 'instructions' in the kits but that is being remedied.

Today (within 24 hours due to time differences between Australia and Italy), I am posting on the MSW what I have done for the Ajax - check 'EUROMODEL INTERPRETIVE FILES' in MSW. I also run their Helpdesk for fun and any queries regarding any Euromodel build will always be answered within 24 hours - usually far less. Like so many others on this forum, my desire is to disseminate what I have learnt.

Trusting that this proves interesting in some way to some or many !

Pete

The Euromodel Royal William has an incredible array of metal ornamentation across the transom and along the complete sides - but no problem as the detailed drawings are EXACTLY what you get in the kit.

So Nenseth is expecting a delivery of the Euromodel Falmouth ? Lucky person and enjoy ! The Euromodel website has some detailed information regarding its build - not a build log or a description of how you assemble the ship but reference material to act as a guide. The beauty is in your interpretation of what is in the drawings and what is in the kit so your build will be very much an individual one.

Pete

Michel,

The attached diagram showing the stern metal decorations of the Royal William might assist your query.

Pete

Euromodel still has the original plans and fittings for the Royal William. Not sure if the individual parts are available or it comes only as a set but I suspect that the former applies. A query through their Helpdesk will get a reply within 24 hours so give them a go but include some photos. 3D printers will be the way to go in the near future.

Pete

Nigel is correct. Keith only covered those two ships but you will find detailed information for the Falmouth build on the Euromodel website under 'Customer Assistance'. It is one of the ships I am currently building so the notes are incomplete BUT you can always contact me directly through their Helpdesk (which is a thing I do just for the fun of it !) or on this forum.

Pete

Yes, I have heard comments like that as well about Italy but Euromodel works through a private carrier system (FedEx) and not the usual postal system. That is a TOTALLY RELIABLE way of sending/ receiving goods and that is why I have received a kit from them so quickly. eBay is one thing but commercial trade is another  !

Pete

Nigel,your approach to 'bashing' a kit is ingeneous, thoughtful and well researched. You mention the loss of a UK dealer that sold Euromodel kits and that is a pity. However, are people aware that these kits can be purchased direct from Euromodel in Como, Italy ? I purchased my first kit from them and was pleasantly surprised how little time it took to arrive in Australia.

Pete

I have just posted an update for my work on the Royal William onto the Euromodel website (under 'Customer Assistance'). This in no way detracts from Vince's work on his build log as my writings are only intended as reference material. RW.INT.01.v7 [Royal William Interpretive file 01, version 7]

This file includes some comments on building a pair of curved staircases for the Upper Quarter Deck on the Royal William. I must admit to being fixated on one approach but I hope you find it interesting. Already, I have now worked out a better approach and will post that later.

I have started a new posting 'Euromodel Interpretive Files' and in that I can keep people up to date on any new material I have written.

Pete

Many thanks Ulises for the comment about Keith Julier's book covering the Royal William. He built this ship within the confines of the kit alone and that was his given brief. I looked at it in my early appraisal of what was in the kit and it was useful

Pete

Vince's build log for the Euromodel Royal William will be a lengthy document and an intriguing thing to watch as it unfolds. For some time, I have been placing a set of interpretive files for the Royal William on the Euromodel website. This allows me to re-edit sections as I wish and it is to people like Vince that I am so grateful for their feedback and criticisms. My intention was never to produce a build log - I like to present a range of ideas that could be used in a build and remain flexible. This privilege of placing work on their website is purely for my fun and has nothing to do with Euromodel itself - it just satisfies my editorial background. This ship has been on the back-burner for ages as I direct my attention to other ships instead.

However, I have almost finished another version of 'RW.INT.01.v7' - Royal William Interpretive 01, version 7 - which incorporates some of Vince's work and also some of my recent work on a pair of curved staircases/ ladders for the Upper Quarter Deck !

For those who would like to receive an update when it does occur, I find the link at the top of this page 'Follow This Topic' an invaluable source - it just pops up as an email message. It works like a treat when anybody adds something to Vince's build log.

Pete

Thanks Nigel. Actually I  am moving away from using everything as supplied. I can see this as a 'too hard' exercise using the moulded boats and I especially agree with the thickness aspect - you have put me off.  Maybe I was looking for an excuse as I just couldn't get my head around the whole thing especially since the boats would not be there if the guns are set up for battle (i.e. projecting out). Some will use them but I have other things I can be doing.

Pete

Still looking for some help re painting/ finishing these boats.

Anybody with ideas/ methods that would allow me to paint the inside of these white plastic boats some 'timber' colour that doesn't just look like a coat of brown paint ?

Alternatively, I could paint the inside of the basic boat the same 'white' colour I probably will use on the exterior - not sure if that would be historically correct. Like some comment on that as well. If I did so, what about the frames, bottom boards and thwarts (seats) - do I leave these as the natural timber that they are ?

Pete

The RW bow blocks are a lime wood timber which is a lightweight material commonly used in carving (e.g. Viking shields, puppets, statues, etc). The initial shaping was done by the use of a bench-mounted sanding disc. Then working with a Dremel power tool with flexible drive and a small sanding drum attached and to be honest the 'carving' was surprisingly very straightforward to do (maybe a lot more effort in just using normal carving tools). However, what was required in the end was a 'good eye' for shape.

Pete

Vince - I agree about the dust. When I get going on this sort of thing I adorn the following  - large apron + cap over my hair + ear muffs + filter mask over my nostrils. Even so, the dust has affected me at times and especially if sanding mdf board watch that because the ingredients in that are not healthy to ingest.

Pete

Great photos of your work on the RW

That's fine Nigel. No offence taken . I just wanted to emphasise the interpretive nature of Euromodel builds

Pete

Hans ... also a big welcome to MSW forum. I read your comments and also those of Nigel. I would have to concur with everything that Nigel has said about Euromodel ships (except one aspect and see below). The thing that makes them stand out is the amazing detail contained in the drawings, all 14 sheets of which were done by a naval architect. Even detailed drawings for the sails with cloth included. The fascinating thing about Euromodel builds is that they are 'quasi-scratch' and whilst a basic build is possible, the plans are forever inviting you to improvise your own additions. There lies the challenge you seek. Euromodel moves away from the standard 'everything is laser cut and put it all together'. Mind you, the frames, keel, decks and so on are laser cut. ... and the metal decorations are PHENOMENAL.

Having said that, 'VinceP' has started a build log of the Royal William on the MSW forum and in addition if you now look at the Euromodel website, you will find that no longer are the 'instructions' minimal. I have spent a considerable amount of time building the RW and adding my interpretive notes on this ship which can be found under 'Customer Assistance'. The notes are extensive but not prescriptive which is why they are on this website and not the MSW forum. There is no way that a precise set of instructions could be written to suit every individual builder but what I have written is there for reference. I also run the Euromodel Helpdesk (from Australia) and questions are usually answered within 24 hours ! I do all of this for fun and it allows me to satisfy my editorial background.

Hopefully this will help you make up your mind !

Pete

Well, yes and no - this would work well towards the stern provided the keel had been tapered down to the rabbet groove so its not just a matter of cutting the groove. Along much of the length of the ship, the planks simply butt up against the false keel so there is no problem.

Pete

Theo ... I totally agree with your above comments. It is so important to get the lines of the ship 'shipshape' with the beveling and tapering two von ery important steps to follow through. The Euromodel RW notes are always in a state of flux - the latest to be posted on their website 4 February (RW.INT. v6 - royal William interpretive file version 6) - the notes have always focused on first planking first followed by the false keel etc at a later stage.

In support of Vince, no matter how carefully I work, I do make big mistakes as well (and assume most others do). It just seems part of the process and learning. It is just interesting to see him develop a method of getting back on track.

Pete

I have contacted a builder (Terrence) from Holland and he will be sending a critique of all the difficulties he experienced in his build of the Euromodel Ajax along with a mass of photos. If you wish to contact him, please send me a PM and he is happy for me to pass on his email address.

Pete

Richard and any others .... I know a builder in Holland who has just finished the Ajax and I think he would be happy to communicate with others wishing to build this ship. Let me know if you would like your email address passed on to him.

Pete

I too would add my support for what Vince is doing. It has all the hallmarks of a great build log. Vince's work has caused me to go back to material that I wrote for Euromodel a number of years ago - material that is unfinished. It was not and never will be a 'build log' but more of a diversified source of interpretation that hopefully others like Vince might find useful but not prescriptive in a 'this is how it should be built' type thing. Under 'Customer Assistance' on Euromodel's webpage, I have just placed 'RW.INT.01.v5' which translated means Royal William Interpretive File Part 1 Version 5. With Vince's permission, I have incorporated a number of photos from his build log. What I have written over the past week is due to Vince's fine work on MSW causing me to rethink how I have presented my own materials. So thanks for that Vince.

This is one of those classic situations where positive criticism becomes a valuable tool.

Pete

Max,

Good to see you buying in to these comments about the bowsprit. There is no problem at all for Vince, Brian or myself; its just a matter of how we interpret these Euromodel plans. No, they are not scratch builds and I would prefer to call them quasi-scratch. The drawings are phenomenal in their detail so there is no problem there. The thing about these plans is that once you start building a Euromodel ship, you are 'drawn into a vortex' and cannot help but add far more detail to the basic build. It is a little addictive to say the least and once you start, you find yourself reaching for references that will enable you to add your own extra bits and pieces. You do not have to do this at all and just build a basic model. Do you have to be very experienced ?  Not really but having built a couple of other ships would be useful and Euromodel is endeavouring to publish detailed notes.

I am currently strongly focused on building the ship of your dreams - the Friederich Wilhelm zu Pferde (a German frigate) - and it is the most fantastic ship I have ever built. Having said that much, have a look at the Euromodel website under 'Customer Assistance' and see what I am writing.

Trust I have addressed your concerns Max.

Pete

.... and Brian,

Because of what I did (and what you will do), the hole generated for the bowsprit seating does not need to go right down to the bulkhead - just enough to secure the mast.

Pete

Brian,

That is exactly what I did - planking first and then the bowsprit but either way it would not be a problem. Vince is to be commended for his attention to detail. The only real indication of the bowsprit seating comes in Plan Sheet 8 which is intended for the finer detail of scratch building. Just a matter of interpretation.