alexmd

Hi Kerry

Wow, this is an interesting history !  I didn't know that there were others published plans of the HMS Enterprise. I understood that Tom had to check the NMM plans against others plans to achieve an accurated plan in order to make his work. 'Course, may be the own NMM plans may be a bit incorrect because they were made by hands on.  Even they were very precises, a CAD is much more an can point out those inconsistencies.  Moreover, the paper may suffer variations due to factors like umity, the quality of the paper, etc.

That's ok, I thank you.

I'll wait for CAF Models answer.

Alex

2 hours ago, kljang said:

Hi Alex,

 

You can contact Tom via the CAF Models website or with this email:  450449987@qq.com

 

The kit was based on plans from the National Maritime Museum which provided the lines.  All of the framing and what not was created by Tom using practices of model shipwrights of the time.  A Polish card model company also created a kit of Enterprize and published plans of the ship.  This was used as a reference for decoration etc. as they had done a lot of research to determine the style of frieze etc.  

 

Cheers,

 

Kerry

Thanks Kerry !  I've alread sent the e-mail.

Regarding to the Polish company, is it the Shipyard ?  If so, that card kit was based in the same plans of the NMM ?

On 8/8/2020 at 8:20 PM, kljang said:

Hi ASAT,

 

No, you didn’t miss it.  I didn’t list any shipping costs as it depends on how it was shipped.  Prior to the pandemic, my kit and other items I ordered from China came via China Post to Canada.  Now, Chinese prodecers are using courier services such as DHL to avoid sitting in the post office (in my case Canada Post) until cleared by customs.  The courier firms have their own brokerage which is faster but comes at a price.  

 

I suggest you email Tom and ask.  The kits can be provided in parts so you can stretch out the costs.  This is why each box is a self contained unit of parts, plans, etc.  You can start with box 1, build away until you are ready for the next part.

 

cheers,

 

Kerry

Hi Kerry

Excelent review !!  Other excelent news is that we may order by box.  You have suggested to contact Tom.  Do you have his contact ?

A doubt: this kit was based on which set of plans, do you know ?

Alex

Hi all

First of all my sincerely apologies. Mostly for not answering before.  Moreover, I apologize for not informing more details.  I'm doing the USS Spruance, a Arleigh Burke class destroyer, Flight IIA, 1:350.

I know that the scale seems too small to reproduce exactly the deck but I think that it's possible to reproduce something similar to the texture, just to get different from a plain deck.

I've appreciated all the tips.  Now, I will study the possibilities very carefully.  Course, any tip else is welcome.

Tks !

Hi all

First of all, sorry if this isn't the correct place for my matter.

I've researched in the stores looking for some texture to cover decks of modern destroyers. I had no success, though.

What I need is to reproduce the deck in the picture.  Notice that the deck isn't plain.

Any idea where I could find such as deck texture or how may I reproduce it ?

The copy at Mystic is probably one of those printed in 1973. Since Mystic does not own the copyright, only a copy of the plan, they can not offer reproductions - even for personal use. Unless he transferred it, Burrows owns the copyright. Wonder if anyone is familiar with him?

So am I

And I agree with Mark: a copy changes everything.  Probably, it must be the only remaining copy. Since there's copyright questions, they can't make new copies. Oh my...

Hi Wayne

After your post I did myself the same question "Why didn't I order this plan ?"  Then, I went to review the e-mails with the Mystic Seaport Museum in 2011.  Yeap... I tried to order it in that time.  Here you go their answer:

"My apologies for the delay in replying to your email for the ENTERPRISE plan. Unfortunately, that plan in our Collections is for research purposes only. It is under copyright and we can not reproduce the plan. It is possible that you may be able to acquire the plan from another source. Please see the attachment for potential contact information: Peabody Museum: http://www.peabody.harvard.edu/collections or the National Archives: http://www.archives.gov/research/ .

> Best of luck in your search."

Well, two points here:

1. I've tried with the Peabody Museum and the National Archives too: "water".

2. "Copyrights" ?! It's a museum !  IMHO, the content of a museum is for anyone, public domain. Am I wrong for thinking out of the box ?

I agree with you Frolick that there isn't any plan of the Enterprise... and never has existed.  In my research some years ago someone told me that the Baltimore schooners were ordered by "similarity".  I mean, one has ordered like this "hey, I want a ship like that one" and the naval carpenters started building.  I believe that Enterprise and Experience were ordered by the fresh US Navy in this way.  No drawings, no plans.

However, I'm still curious about how is the remaining of the plan in the Mystic Museum. Why  don't they share the plans easily ?  I'm sure that is not due a authoral rights, it's a museum.

By getting this plan and comparing it to the Vixen or even Nautilus and Algerine plans could enable to reach a very accurate mixed plan, likely close to the actual Enterprise.

Great model ! And the author exposes the frames, giving us a "taste" of PoF.

Indeed, the Enterprise may have been too similar to Algerine.  We have up to now the plan showing the bow and it is very similar to the Algerine's bow.

By the by, I think that the Constructo's model of the Enterprise (already mentioned here - and I've already assembled one too) is based on the Mystic museum plan. 

However, if this is true there's a interesting point: in the Constructo's model, there's a poopdeck and the Baltimore schooners - and the Algerine - do not have for aught I know.

This is one of my main curiosities about the Enterprise: did she have a poopdeck or not, and with two cannons under the deck of the poop, like in the model by Constructo ?

Please, be our "blessed soul" and send us news after.

Exactly Charlie !

My "fight" with the Mystic museum (I've tried to get the plan without going there in loco several times in these years) is that such material should be shared.

I don't know how accurate or real is this drawing or even its origin.  However, someone made it not for play, sure that it was based on something - and this "something" may be lost... the plan not... yet.

Ok team! Just a bit of an update regarding the Enterprize.  First off I've spoken with 3 naval curators on the matter and sadly the Enterprize half hull was lost some time after that photo was taken back in the 1920's.  Where she is, no one knows it's a mystery which apparently has got quite a few people out there trying to solve, many whom I imagine have greater resources at their disposal than myself.  So that one is a dead end though I am curious if there are computer programs that can take a photo image and digitize them using lighting to extrapolate a form, thoughts? 

 

Secondly I received the book Tidewater Triumph by Geoffrey Footner which indeed does show the Venice plans and an alternate version as well.  They both seem to have stem and stern details which don't appear accurate and can be disregarded. Added pics from the book below. I had a very nice correspondence with Michael Bosworth who explained to me a bit more regarding his thoughts on the schooner and his collaboration with the book writer. I circled a spot which according the book was where Enterprize was lengthened amidship. 

 

Last is a set of conjectural plans at Mystic Conneticut which were apparently made by a member of the Burrows family in 1973 which fellow member Alexmd was interested in. While I can look at the plans, they are historical documents and cannot be touched or photographed, so was thinking of taking a piece of clear vinyl or plexiglass and sticking it in a wood frame that I can house over the plans and then trace with a permanent marker.  I'm not sure if there is a better way to copy them and if anyone here has advice I'm happy to listen.

Now, the work consists in some blessed soul go to Mystic and get the other half.  

The drawing you show in post #5 is cleaner. Looks like the gun room is a pressure chamber that if standing alone would be a drag and cause turbulence in the water. Looks like most of the actual gun room was covered with false sheeting as streamlining and to stop any noisy cross-flow around the topside structures. Would expect it to be open to the sea, don't see any drains but if not open to the sea.they would be crushed.

jud

Hmm... interesting Jud... I have to think a little bit about your comment because I've never had seen in this way.

Hi Mark

Yeah, it had an airplane dismounted - a Benson, I think - in its small hangar - in the image I've posted this hangar is shown.

Regarding to the plans, I've found them, but they aren't enough to solve my doubts.

Alex

Hi Pat

The Hobby Boss has a plastic model of the Surcouf.  The gun turret is not movel, though.  In fact, the gun turret, its basis etc. is all part of the same piece, in the hull and in the main deck.

Yeah, the idea is very interesting.  In my research I haven't find the reasons for the Surcouf design yet.  What I know is that, althought all this "good intention", in the practice, the sub was slow under the sea and it was used almost all the time for scout.

Alex

Hi Jud

You've mentioned a schematic.  Do you have one about the Surcouf ?

Alex

Hi Mark

Alex

Hi all

I'm researching about the french submarine Surcouf.

It had a peculiar turret with cannons on its main deck that rotated. Here it go a video which shows this turret (the point is almost in the middle of the video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RQgP8KO8-8

I've been looking for dozens of images and plans, I can't find the exact structure of such turret, though.

Does anyone know something about this ?

My main doubts are the exact form of this plataform (in order to it could rotate) and the structure under it.  The inner structure is no important for me, although I know it from some plans avaliable in Internet.

Thanks !

Jack

In your case, how did you make the grooves in the vertical wood ? 

Did you use MicroLux miniature table saw to do this or to cut the acrylic ?

(that's a nice case !)

Hi all

Thanks for all the answers !

About to use preprofiled wood, it was my first idea. So, I went to several shops that deal with wood but I didn't find preprofiled wood.

The article that Peter has suggested is very good !  Step-by-step, it illustrates how to build a case by using square angle corners on the vertical structure.

And I've stayed curious about how to use a router to make the groove. I'm not familiar with router (only that ones for wi-fi  ).  Is there any video or pictures that show how to do this ?

Hi S.os

I thought about this possibility, the problem is the cost.  I've already done small cases with acrylic 3 mm and it was very good !  In the new desired dimensions, I think that I would have to use 5 mm, at least.  So, the cost can double, since the price generally is proportional to the thickness.  However, it's a possibility.

Peter

Ok, I'm gonna study the article.  I known that I've ever had seen some article about this here in the MSW, but I wasn't remembering where.

alexmd, are you sure you want to go with a wooden frame? I had a shop cut the plastic acrylic to my dimensions. I bought the necessary glue and put the whole thing together myself. It worked out fine and was not that hard to do.

 

You do not mention the size of the case you want to make.

 

S.os

S.os

Sorry about this, I forgot... the dimensions of my case are: height = 700 mm. width = 800 mm and depth = 300 mm.  A friend has a case in similar dimensions.  The case was built just with acrylic and glue, as you said.  But the whole structure shakes.  Give the sensation that it will disassemble in some time.

Realistically, the only way to cut a groove in the wood is with a table saw.

 

You can set up the rip fence on the saw to cut the groove whatever distance you want from the edge and adjust the saw blade to the depth you want the groove.  Once the rip fence is set up, say to allow a 1/8" space from the edge of the piece to the groove, you can then cut the groove in all the pieces.

Hi Jack

Yeah... I know... My hope was find other way because buy a table saw only for this purpose don't seem me a good trade off.

Maybe I can improvise a table saw, but I don't know how.

Hi all

I intend to make a case for one of my models.  However, due to my model's dimensions, I'm concerned about the structure of the case, so I was thinking about to make it in wood.

My first doubt is how to make a groove in the wood such that I could put the glass or acrylic sheet in.

In the attached image I show the groove I'm talking about.

I'm looking for a technique or method without complex and/or expensive tools.

Hi Mark and Druxey

Thank you for clarify me.

I think that this discussion, even about a simple rail, was useful... at least for me, a begginer and curious about details.