Anguirel

Hi
 

 
This was waiting for me when I arrived home yesterday, finally I will be able o keep things squared.
 
As for the black paper on the frames, the double frames they are sturdy enough ( if the one I built can be used as an example) the simple ones might be a ploblem. I used the paper because I read somewhere that they used tar or pitch on the frame joints, but now I can't find it, will have to go through the books again...

Hi
 

 
This was waiting for me when I arrived home yesterday, finally I will be able o keep things squared.
 
As for the black paper on the frames, the double frames they are sturdy enough ( if the one I built can be used as an example) the simple ones might be a ploblem. I used the paper because I read somewhere that they used tar or pitch on the frame joints, but now I can't find it, will have to go through the books again...

Hi Christian,
 
Thanks for the info. It's back to the drawing board, from the values you sent all the frames are thicker then the ones on the frorun planes so I can't use the ones I had already cut.

Hi Christian,
 
Thanks for the info. It's back to the drawing board, from the values you sent all the frames are thicker then the ones on the frorun planes so I can't use the ones I had already cut.

Hi,
 
So I finished my first double frame. This was done mainly for testing since the frame is wrong some time now... I think the treenails and copper nails came out alright, the copper nails more then the treenails.
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
And the treenails on the scarph

 
I realised now that the treenails on the scarph should had gone through to the other side. But should the same thing be done on the chock?
 
For the finish I was planning on using Danish oil but I must admit it let the wood darker then I was expecting...
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
While I was putting the treenails I used a pencil to "paint" the treenails black but most of it came off during the process of applying the treenails to the frame. At the time I was worried that the black wouldn't show but I guess I was wrong.
 
I ordered wood from The Lumberyard and from Hobby Mill, although the are the same wood type (boxwood) there are not the same...

 
For last... next time have to be more careful to maintain the frame square when doing the holes for the treenails. This is a stupid way to ruin a frame almost at the end
 

Hi
 
Thanks for the measurements Christian. Just one question, did you switch the floor timber and the 1st futtock? the floor timber should be thicker right?
 
As for the position of the gun ports I'm assuming I can use the plans of the forum for that. Do you have a way to confirm that?
 
Mark I will try the holes thing and next time I'm in Hobby Lobby I will ask if they have the artist pigment... (the only immediate problem I see is the excess glue witch I tend to apply)

Hi
 
Thanks for the measurements Christian. Just one question, did you switch the floor timber and the 1st futtock? the floor timber should be thicker right?
 
As for the position of the gun ports I'm assuming I can use the plans of the forum for that. Do you have a way to confirm that?
 
Mark I will try the holes thing and next time I'm in Hobby Lobby I will ask if they have the artist pigment... (the only immediate problem I see is the excess glue witch I tend to apply)

Hi
 
Christian, thanks for the info. I think it's too late to go with simplification... if it's not too much trouble for you can you send me the correct sizes?

Hi
 
Christian, thanks for the info. I think it's too late to go with simplification... if it's not too much trouble for you can you send me the correct sizes?

Hi,
 
So I finished my first double frame. This was done mainly for testing since the frame is wrong some time now... I think the treenails and copper nails came out alright, the copper nails more then the treenails.
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
And the treenails on the scarph

 
I realised now that the treenails on the scarph should had gone through to the other side. But should the same thing be done on the chock?
 
For the finish I was planning on using Danish oil but I must admit it let the wood darker then I was expecting...
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
While I was putting the treenails I used a pencil to "paint" the treenails black but most of it came off during the process of applying the treenails to the frame. At the time I was worried that the black wouldn't show but I guess I was wrong.
 
I ordered wood from The Lumberyard and from Hobby Mill, although the are the same wood type (boxwood) there are not the same...

 
For last... next time have to be more careful to maintain the frame square when doing the holes for the treenails. This is a stupid way to ruin a frame almost at the end
 

Hi,
 
So I finished my first double frame. This was done mainly for testing since the frame is wrong some time now... I think the treenails and copper nails came out alright, the copper nails more then the treenails.
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
And the treenails on the scarph

 
I realised now that the treenails on the scarph should had gone through to the other side. But should the same thing be done on the chock?
 
For the finish I was planning on using Danish oil but I must admit it let the wood darker then I was expecting...
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
While I was putting the treenails I used a pencil to "paint" the treenails black but most of it came off during the process of applying the treenails to the frame. At the time I was worried that the black wouldn't show but I guess I was wrong.
 
I ordered wood from The Lumberyard and from Hobby Mill, although the are the same wood type (boxwood) there are not the same...

 
For last... next time have to be more careful to maintain the frame square when doing the holes for the treenails. This is a stupid way to ruin a frame almost at the end
 

Hi
 
Christian, thanks for the info. I think it's too late to go with simplification... if it's not too much trouble for you can you send me the correct sizes?

Hi,
 
So I finished my first double frame. This was done mainly for testing since the frame is wrong some time now... I think the treenails and copper nails came out alright, the copper nails more then the treenails.
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
And the treenails on the scarph

 
I realised now that the treenails on the scarph should had gone through to the other side. But should the same thing be done on the chock?
 
For the finish I was planning on using Danish oil but I must admit it let the wood darker then I was expecting...
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
While I was putting the treenails I used a pencil to "paint" the treenails black but most of it came off during the process of applying the treenails to the frame. At the time I was worried that the black wouldn't show but I guess I was wrong.
 
I ordered wood from The Lumberyard and from Hobby Mill, although the are the same wood type (boxwood) there are not the same...

 
For last... next time have to be more careful to maintain the frame square when doing the holes for the treenails. This is a stupid way to ruin a frame almost at the end
 

Hi,
 
"and very nice it is too! That must have been very satisfying to make.
 
Tony"
 
Thanks Tony, it was indeed very satisfying...
 
Mike, align the pieces wasn’t difficult, just used the plan as a template. What was difficult was sanding the individual half frames and putting the two half’s together.
The frame pieces, chocks and futtocks were sanded and aligned before and everything was perfect. Once I put the paper on this added an extra length (the thickness of the paper) to all components and everything had to be re-sanded and the chocks had to be re-dimensioned. Next time this can be avoided by taking this in consideration from the beginning. Another problem was that the glue doesn’t form a solid joint across the paper so it’s very easy to pull the pieces apart (this happened three times during sanding) leaving paper on both sides. This doesn’t happen once the two half’s are together.
 
Now what I don’t know how to do is how to put the two half together. This time I did it with the two half fully assembled. There is a post called “Assembling Frames” pinned to the top of the cross section section that shows how to do this adding piece by piece of the two half at the frame time. First the floor futtock, then the 1st futtock, then the 2nd and so forth... now my question is how do you align them if all the pieces have extra wood on the side, how do you align the red and blue line if they are not always at the same distance from the edge of the different pieces (when I did mine, I cheated, I sand it first so the lines where at the edges).
 
Christian, your help is most welcome and needed.
Some questions and observation from the image you posted
 
1.    The frame at station 0 is not double
2.    The double frames at station 1 and (A) are not symmetrical, the half’s closest to frame 0 are thicker
3.    Frames at station 3, 5, 7, A, C and E are symmetrical
4.    The frames at stations 7, 5, 3, 1, (A), A, C and E there is a space between them from the 1st futtock up while the frames at stations 6, 4, 2, ? (what is the name of the station between (A) and A?), B and D there is a space between them all the way from the keel
5.    What are the units of the thickness values written in the image?
6.    When you say all other frames have normal thickness is that the thickness used in the plans here at the forum? If that is the case I can use the pieces I have already cut and just sand then to the correct thickness (assuming they have the thickness of the floor futtock all the way up). Only have to redo the frame 0 and the two half frames from station 1 and (A)
7.    The frames at stations 7, 5, 3, 1, (A), A, C and E at the connection of the different pieces there are 4 horizontal lines (two at the 2nd-3rd futtock joint) in the space between the half frames, are those the location of the frames spacers? or just the location of the copper bolts?
8.    How do I determine the size of the space between the frames, they don’t seem to be always the same
9.    The frames at station 6, 4, 2, ?, B, D there seems to only be a reduction in thickness from the floor futtock to the 2nd futtock and from the 1st futtock to the 3rd futtock. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th futtocks and the top timber have the same thickness
 
Jan, I already used this paper in the same way in one of my kits and it didn’t bleed to the wood but I will test this on the frame I’m doing now
 
Just a small update on the frame I’m doing… the treenails are in place as well as the copper wires. Once everything is sanded I will post picture
 
Thanks everyone for the likes, comments and help…

Hi,
 
So I finished my first double frame. This was done mainly for testing since the frame is wrong some time now... I think the treenails and copper nails came out alright, the copper nails more then the treenails.
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
And the treenails on the scarph

 
I realised now that the treenails on the scarph should had gone through to the other side. But should the same thing be done on the chock?
 
For the finish I was planning on using Danish oil but I must admit it let the wood darker then I was expecting...
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
While I was putting the treenails I used a pencil to "paint" the treenails black but most of it came off during the process of applying the treenails to the frame. At the time I was worried that the black wouldn't show but I guess I was wrong.
 
I ordered wood from The Lumberyard and from Hobby Mill, although the are the same wood type (boxwood) there are not the same...

 
For last... next time have to be more careful to maintain the frame square when doing the holes for the treenails. This is a stupid way to ruin a frame almost at the end
 

Hi,
 
So I finished my first double frame. This was done mainly for testing since the frame is wrong some time now... I think the treenails and copper nails came out alright, the copper nails more then the treenails.
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
And the treenails on the scarph

 
I realised now that the treenails on the scarph should had gone through to the other side. But should the same thing be done on the chock?
 
For the finish I was planning on using Danish oil but I must admit it let the wood darker then I was expecting...
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
While I was putting the treenails I used a pencil to "paint" the treenails black but most of it came off during the process of applying the treenails to the frame. At the time I was worried that the black wouldn't show but I guess I was wrong.
 
I ordered wood from The Lumberyard and from Hobby Mill, although the are the same wood type (boxwood) there are not the same...

 
For last... next time have to be more careful to maintain the frame square when doing the holes for the treenails. This is a stupid way to ruin a frame almost at the end
 

Hi,
 
Anobium what a wonderful idea... when you say 3 thick frames at station 0 are you referring to the changes in thickness as we go up? The first biggest problem about this idea is that I still can't understand everything in those kind of plans. But I will try.
 
As for the frame I was building I used black paper to simulate the pitch and tar that was used. This introduced a extra high to the floors, futtocks and top timbers that I was not successful at compensating and one side of one of the halfs is bigger then the other. I also had to compensate the size of the chock and scarphs. Because of this (and Anobium's idea) this frame is now garbage.
I still used this frame to do some testing and to see the final result of using the black paper
 
One half...

 
The other half...

 
And the inside...


 
Now for the treenails. I will try boxwood (same wood as frames) for the treenails and copper wires for the nails. Let's see how it looks

Hi,
 
"and very nice it is too! That must have been very satisfying to make.
 
Tony"
 
Thanks Tony, it was indeed very satisfying...
 
Mike, align the pieces wasn’t difficult, just used the plan as a template. What was difficult was sanding the individual half frames and putting the two half’s together.
The frame pieces, chocks and futtocks were sanded and aligned before and everything was perfect. Once I put the paper on this added an extra length (the thickness of the paper) to all components and everything had to be re-sanded and the chocks had to be re-dimensioned. Next time this can be avoided by taking this in consideration from the beginning. Another problem was that the glue doesn’t form a solid joint across the paper so it’s very easy to pull the pieces apart (this happened three times during sanding) leaving paper on both sides. This doesn’t happen once the two half’s are together.
 
Now what I don’t know how to do is how to put the two half together. This time I did it with the two half fully assembled. There is a post called “Assembling Frames” pinned to the top of the cross section section that shows how to do this adding piece by piece of the two half at the frame time. First the floor futtock, then the 1st futtock, then the 2nd and so forth... now my question is how do you align them if all the pieces have extra wood on the side, how do you align the red and blue line if they are not always at the same distance from the edge of the different pieces (when I did mine, I cheated, I sand it first so the lines where at the edges).
 
Christian, your help is most welcome and needed.
Some questions and observation from the image you posted
 
1.    The frame at station 0 is not double
2.    The double frames at station 1 and (A) are not symmetrical, the half’s closest to frame 0 are thicker
3.    Frames at station 3, 5, 7, A, C and E are symmetrical
4.    The frames at stations 7, 5, 3, 1, (A), A, C and E there is a space between them from the 1st futtock up while the frames at stations 6, 4, 2, ? (what is the name of the station between (A) and A?), B and D there is a space between them all the way from the keel
5.    What are the units of the thickness values written in the image?
6.    When you say all other frames have normal thickness is that the thickness used in the plans here at the forum? If that is the case I can use the pieces I have already cut and just sand then to the correct thickness (assuming they have the thickness of the floor futtock all the way up). Only have to redo the frame 0 and the two half frames from station 1 and (A)
7.    The frames at stations 7, 5, 3, 1, (A), A, C and E at the connection of the different pieces there are 4 horizontal lines (two at the 2nd-3rd futtock joint) in the space between the half frames, are those the location of the frames spacers? or just the location of the copper bolts?
8.    How do I determine the size of the space between the frames, they don’t seem to be always the same
9.    The frames at station 6, 4, 2, ?, B, D there seems to only be a reduction in thickness from the floor futtock to the 2nd futtock and from the 1st futtock to the 3rd futtock. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th futtocks and the top timber have the same thickness
 
Jan, I already used this paper in the same way in one of my kits and it didn’t bleed to the wood but I will test this on the frame I’m doing now
 
Just a small update on the frame I’m doing… the treenails are in place as well as the copper wires. Once everything is sanded I will post picture
 
Thanks everyone for the likes, comments and help…

Hi,
 
Anobium what a wonderful idea... when you say 3 thick frames at station 0 are you referring to the changes in thickness as we go up? The first biggest problem about this idea is that I still can't understand everything in those kind of plans. But I will try.
 
As for the frame I was building I used black paper to simulate the pitch and tar that was used. This introduced a extra high to the floors, futtocks and top timbers that I was not successful at compensating and one side of one of the halfs is bigger then the other. I also had to compensate the size of the chock and scarphs. Because of this (and Anobium's idea) this frame is now garbage.
I still used this frame to do some testing and to see the final result of using the black paper
 
One half...

 
The other half...

 
And the inside...


 
Now for the treenails. I will try boxwood (same wood as frames) for the treenails and copper wires for the nails. Let's see how it looks

Hi,
 
Anobium what a wonderful idea... when you say 3 thick frames at station 0 are you referring to the changes in thickness as we go up? The first biggest problem about this idea is that I still can't understand everything in those kind of plans. But I will try.
 
As for the frame I was building I used black paper to simulate the pitch and tar that was used. This introduced a extra high to the floors, futtocks and top timbers that I was not successful at compensating and one side of one of the halfs is bigger then the other. I also had to compensate the size of the chock and scarphs. Because of this (and Anobium's idea) this frame is now garbage.
I still used this frame to do some testing and to see the final result of using the black paper
 
One half...

 
The other half...

 
And the inside...


 
Now for the treenails. I will try boxwood (same wood as frames) for the treenails and copper wires for the nails. Let's see how it looks

Hi,
 
Anobium what a wonderful idea... when you say 3 thick frames at station 0 are you referring to the changes in thickness as we go up? The first biggest problem about this idea is that I still can't understand everything in those kind of plans. But I will try.
 
As for the frame I was building I used black paper to simulate the pitch and tar that was used. This introduced a extra high to the floors, futtocks and top timbers that I was not successful at compensating and one side of one of the halfs is bigger then the other. I also had to compensate the size of the chock and scarphs. Because of this (and Anobium's idea) this frame is now garbage.
I still used this frame to do some testing and to see the final result of using the black paper
 
One half...

 
The other half...

 
And the inside...


 
Now for the treenails. I will try boxwood (same wood as frames) for the treenails and copper wires for the nails. Let's see how it looks

Hi,
 
Anobium what a wonderful idea... when you say 3 thick frames at station 0 are you referring to the changes in thickness as we go up? The first biggest problem about this idea is that I still can't understand everything in those kind of plans. But I will try.
 
As for the frame I was building I used black paper to simulate the pitch and tar that was used. This introduced a extra high to the floors, futtocks and top timbers that I was not successful at compensating and one side of one of the halfs is bigger then the other. I also had to compensate the size of the chock and scarphs. Because of this (and Anobium's idea) this frame is now garbage.
I still used this frame to do some testing and to see the final result of using the black paper
 
One half...

 
The other half...

 
And the inside...


 
Now for the treenails. I will try boxwood (same wood as frames) for the treenails and copper wires for the nails. Let's see how it looks

Hi,
 
Anobium what a wonderful idea... when you say 3 thick frames at station 0 are you referring to the changes in thickness as we go up? The first biggest problem about this idea is that I still can't understand everything in those kind of plans. But I will try.
 
As for the frame I was building I used black paper to simulate the pitch and tar that was used. This introduced a extra high to the floors, futtocks and top timbers that I was not successful at compensating and one side of one of the halfs is bigger then the other. I also had to compensate the size of the chock and scarphs. Because of this (and Anobium's idea) this frame is now garbage.
I still used this frame to do some testing and to see the final result of using the black paper
 
One half...

 
The other half...

 
And the inside...


 
Now for the treenails. I will try boxwood (same wood as frames) for the treenails and copper wires for the nails. Let's see how it looks

Hi,
 
Anobium what a wonderful idea... when you say 3 thick frames at station 0 are you referring to the changes in thickness as we go up? The first biggest problem about this idea is that I still can't understand everything in those kind of plans. But I will try.
 
As for the frame I was building I used black paper to simulate the pitch and tar that was used. This introduced a extra high to the floors, futtocks and top timbers that I was not successful at compensating and one side of one of the halfs is bigger then the other. I also had to compensate the size of the chock and scarphs. Because of this (and Anobium's idea) this frame is now garbage.
I still used this frame to do some testing and to see the final result of using the black paper
 
One half...

 
The other half...

 
And the inside...


 
Now for the treenails. I will try boxwood (same wood as frames) for the treenails and copper wires for the nails. Let's see how it looks

Thank for the kind words Tony. It just makes me nervous knowing that there is a "righter" way to do it. Don't get me wrong I'm very appreciative of the free work that was put in making the planes and I understand the need for simplicity in this kind of projects but I feel wrong if I don't go the extra mile. So with that in mind here's my attempt at the cross chock
 

 

 
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