dak4482

several references show the ratline started and ended with an eyesplice seized with several turns to the first and last shroud.

Hi all

just to add another source, Tryckare's "Lore of Ships" has pages and pages of drawings of these types of sail layouts along with many other examples from Chinese junks all the way to six-masted barkentines. Dr PR, Your explanations give a much greater understanding of many of those those variations and is very much appreciated.

Dan

Hello all.

I see mentioned references to rigging warrant and the contract for the Victoria. Is there a source we can access for these documents. I havent read thru all 22 pages of this discussion yet so I apologize if this has been answered already.

Dan

dak4482@comcast.net

Ed,

No problem. I got the book also and if you ordered the one with the red cover it will definitely have the plates.

Dan

dak4482@comcast.net

Ed,

Are you still interested in the plates from Fincham's work? I have the scans from the third edition of 1854. They are not the best but are clear enough to read and are on 8 1/2 by 14 inch size. I copied the whole book MANY years ago from a copy of the Conway Maritime Print at Ohio State U. I can scan to pdf and then send them to you. I think there are about 24 pages. Several of them look to be straight from Steel's mast plates but I'm not sure as I haven't put them side by side.  Also from what I can tell, The Conway Maritime book print from 1982 is the only one that has the plates included. (The book with the red cover). Abebooks has several copies for sale. My scanner combined them into one pdf document so the file is rather big at 50 MEG. WETransfer would be able to handle that if you can. Let me know.

Dan

dak4482@comcast.net

Alan,

Thx for the info. I'll be calling her.

Sorry, Couldnt figure out how to delete Lever's diagram from the second post.

Alan,

Also see Bushell's "The Rigger's Guide" He has several pages of articles on the flying jib boom and its rigging:

Just a sample:

Alan,

Lever's Sheet Anchor shows a good drawing of a  Flying jib boom and its associated "flying jib martingale guy" in the appendix on page 114-115.  He states:

"The Flying Jib Martingale Guy leads thru a thimble in the strap on the bowsprit, and thru the lower sheave hole , reeves thru a block at the end of the FLYING JIB-BOOM, and thru the hole. The same operation takes place on the other leg of the Dolphin striker."

Not sure of the time period here,

Dan

2020-08-21_15-57-38.pdf

Hi all, a question for the group-

Is anyone aware of any 3D photos, sketches, etc of MADE masts for the individual pieces of the mast (spindles, fishes, etc) where there could have been as many as 16 individual pieces ((according to Seppings). I have Steel, Fincham and Crothers' publications as references. Anyone aware of any others with GOOD diagrams or 3-D views. I just cant get my head around the 2d diagrams of the pieces with all the scarfs, cutouts, etc in them. Don't need help with the fittings yet, just the individual pieces of the mast itself. Has anyone ever done a DETAILED model of a made mast. I would also be interested in any videos of the same such as on youtube, etc but I havent been able to locate any for multi-piece made masts.

Any help is appreciated.

Dan

Best of luck to you sir with your surgery

I question for the group-

Is anyone aware of any 3D photos, sketches, etc of MADE masts for the individual pieces of the mast (spindles, fishes, etc) where there could have been as many as 16 individual pieces ((according to Seppings). I have Steel, Fincham and Crothers' publications as references. Anyone aware of any others with GOOD diagrams or 3-D views. I just cant get my head around the 2d diagrams of the pieces with all the scarfs, cutouts, etc in them. Don't need help with the fittings yet, just the individual pieces of the mast itself. Has anyone ever done a DETAILED model of a made mast. I would also be interested in any videos of the same such as on youtube, etc but I havent been able to locate any for multi-piece made masts.

Any help is appreciated.

Dan

Hi all,

Thx to Bill I was able to obtain the last two parts of the article.

Dan

Hi all,

Looking for help in obtaining parts 5 & 6 of David White's "Understanding Ships Drafts'  from Model ShipWright Magazine way back when. Unable to locate any copies of either these last 2 parts or the magazine itself, which is issue 54 and the one after that. Any help would be appreciated. pdf's or paper are fine. Thx in advance.

Dan

Alcedo,

Great job!!!! Thx ever so much. It is very much appreciated.

Dan

Wayne,

Thx for the reply. I do have both the book and draughts for Naval Architecture. Thats why I was curious if this publication was an upgrade.

Dan

Hi all,

Quick question. Has anyone ever seen or possess a copy of "Steel's improved tables of the dimensions of the most approved ship of each class" that is advertised in almost every one of Stelel's publication? Is this something that was incorporated in later versions of a particular book? Just wondering if it is a update to his tables of scantlings in his Naval Architecture publication. Can't find it anywhere except in bibliographies for him.

Dan

Karl,

OK. was just curious. i guess I should have looked around the site more closely. Your construction is fantastic. I was using your photos from the 74 build to go along with reading Boudriot's 4 volume set and it cleared up ALOT of things for me. The drawings and photos were VERY educational and helpful. You are to be congratulated on the quality of your work.

Good luck on this build and still look forward to the 74 haha.

Dan

Karl,

Any more on this build of the 74 Gun Ship? Loved your past posts.

Dan

Zoltan,

Any word yet on if the plans are still available?

Dan

John,

Thx. Flipping between Boudriot and Steel is sometimes very confusing. Steel gives very good narratives but his diagrams leave alot to be desired. Boudriot has great diagrams that help you understand the narratives, but his narratives are not very detailed. Even though completely different styles of architecture I'm still using both just for understanding some of the technical aspects. Gonna try and start with Rhino to give a very rudimentary try at diagramming a ship hull. I'm not looking for great accuracy, just trying to understand the miriod of lines and terms in the various diagrams. Also Rhino allows tracing to shape out the beginning of the design. Steel's Naval architecture and the Shipbuilder's Repository are so deep I figure if I try drawing out the descriptions little by little, even if not very accurate it will help understand them so when I am looking for accuracy I'll make fewer mistakes. Thx again. The forums here are a HUGE help also. Thx to all you "experts" out there that contribute these great narratives that help so much in understanding ship design.

PS. Any other good French Naval architecture sources that have been translated to English?

Dan

Hi John,

New to the forum. Please be patient as I'm also new to this hobby though have read extensively but not put it to practical use. Looking over Boudriot's drawings of the head it appears that the gammoning holes are much higher on the knee of the head in his French vessel that what I see in Steel and other British and American drawings that put them between the cheeks??? (Am I describing those correctly)??? Are the rails positioned differently in the French vessel? Or is Boudriot's Illustration just not absolutely horizontal and is distorting the picture to make them look much higher?

Thx in advance.

Dan

Thx for the replies.  Daniel, if you look at the sheer drawings from the two authors, one shows buttock lines and the other shows riibbands and waterlines.  Boudriot mentions butock lines in several places in his "74 Gun Ship" but doesnt show them anywhere on his sheer plans. Steel shows buttock lines and water lines. His diagrams are much more detailed (see attached) as they go along with his narrative on architecture. I am just trying to get my head around how they started laying out the lines of the ship for sheer using the two different methods. Maybe I'm confusing breadth and shape. Please help me on this if there is a simple explanation. I'm very new to these diagrams and if I'm way off base I wont be offended if you say so. Just trying to learn.

Thx in advance.

Dan

Steel's_Book_0003.pdf

Gaetan,

Looking at the 74 Gun Ship and Steel's Naval Architecture, the sheer plans seem to differ a bit on how they lay out the breadth of the ship. Steel uses buttock lines and Boudriot uses ribbands it appears. Why the difference? What is the most accurate way to duplicate the breadth at different levels using the sheer plan ribbands or buttock lines? Seems that ribbands while more numerous add the wifth of the actual ribbands while buttock lines are normally limited to six but do show the actual breadth at those levels. Thoughts?

Thx in advance.

Dan

Wow did I ever get lucky.  haha. I sent a message to Sim Comfort personally after purchasing some of his material and he was kind enough to send me a scan of that draft #39. Great guy and very helpful.

Thx to all for the responses

Duff,

Thx very much for the info but I think you grabbed the wrong book. The Draught # 39 that I am referring to is in Steels "Naval Architecture", not his "Elements of Mastmaking, Sailmaking and Rigging". I apologize if my text was confusing. The draught #39 I am referencing would be a very large print approximately 24"x30" and shows "fitting of the stroreroom between the gun deck and Orlop".  I have the Sweetman edition you show and the mast and Spar diagrams in the back pocket are absolutely wonderful. I am SUPER interested in how they constructed "made" masts and would love to see a video of one or some 3 dimensional diagrams that help show better the scarfing and how the various pieces butt and fit together. The Steel diagrams are wonderfully detailed but I still have a problem getting my head around how the various head and ends of the various pieces fit together, especially for masts made of 7 pieces or more. I think its one of the areas that are totally missing from the hobby, obviously because at our scale it would be almost impossible to model correctly.

For any others interested in this topic ("Made" masts and spars), two of the best references I have found on the subject are "The Masting of American Merchant Sail in the 1850's" by William Crothers and "A Treatise on Masting Ships and Mast Making" by John Fincham. Crothers has some of the best explanations  I've seen on made masts consisting of anywhere from 5 to 16 "sticks". Fincham duplicates alot of Steel's info but does add some interesting narrative of his own.  These two volumes along with Steel's pretty much cover all there is to know about "made" masts and spars.

Thx again for the info

Dan