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AON

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  1. Like
    AON reacted to garyshipwright in HMS Montague 1779 by garyshipwright - 74-gun Alfred-class   
    Your very welcome Ron and thank you Joe. Here are some photo's of her keel, stem, stern post and deadwood along with her apron and building board. A couple of the photo's show the templates that were used to construct the parts and pieces.










  2. Like
    AON reacted to Trussben in HMS Pegasus 1776 by Trussben - 1:48 - Swan-class sloop based on TFFM   
    The sternpost has been glued and pinned to the keel and aft deadwood now, I have to finish refining the shape back there and then I will start making the rising wood pieces.
     
    Ben




  3. Like
    AON reacted to Trussben in HMS Pegasus 1776 by Trussben - 1:48 - Swan-class sloop based on TFFM   
    Work on the sternpost has begun, complicated lining up with aft deadwood but moving along slowly is fine by me.
     
    Ben
  4. Like
    AON got a reaction from bonkers in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    Ed
    Regarding your posting 26FEB at 6:47... had to take some time to re-read your post.
     
    I am still absorbing the Vade Mecum; trying to make notes, sketches with labelling, to better understand what it describes and it is slow going.
     
    The 3D Model vs. normal drawing:
    I drew the Half Breadth first from (hopefully) very careful measurements on what one might call the bottom view (plane); then drew the Shear Lines on the front view (plane); and finally the Body Plan(s) on individual end views (planes).  Drawing all in 2D on separate planes in Solidworks. I used the shear lines to help develop the body plan and then compared the body plan to the Half Breadth. I admit to not knowing what all the lines mean and hope to rectify that shortly… followed by drawing updates. To make 3D models one would extrude from the appropriate lines on a 2D plane. Normally each individual item becomes it’s own detail file and 3D model.  I use the original sketches as my master to create all other individual files (parts). This way they should all fit (mate) properly.
     
    The major difference between a normal 2D (paper or AutoCAD) drawing and drawing 2D on 3D planes is that in 3D you cannot relate directly one to the other until you make the 3D model.  The closest you can come before that is to turn all 2D sketches on and view them in three planes (X, Y and Z) together… as I did.
     
    I noticed how one person in the forum faired their plan by creating a “shell” of their 3D model and inspecting it for flaws (dimples, folds, etc).  I will do this also but need to define the limits  (outer edges of the shell) first. I am not quite there as yet.
     
    Yes I took dimensions from the bottom of the keel.  Honestly, I had suffered from draftsman blindness, staring at the line in the shear diagram that suggested it should be used but didn’t really see it (register in my thick skull) until I was well on my way.  I will not make that mistake again.
     
    I intended to do all station frames and then possibly those in between afterwards.  It seems no one bevels the inside/outside faces in the actual model builds, but rather simply sands them to shape afterwards, so I am not sure I need to go to that detail in the model… so long as I leave enough (a smidgen at scale) material to allow physical shaping (sanding).
     
    Room and Space:
    From what I was referencing (and it did not qualify a time period) it seemed frames were cheek to jowl.  Earlier this week I read how there was a material scarcity in the late 1600s so the latter half of the 1700s likely had made allowances for this (?).  Still learning about this and hope to have better direction soon.
     
    I am still waiting for my quote on the Bellerophon & Elephant Contracts and so once these are received I will possibly have a better defined direction to follow.  The 74 Gun Frames.pdf Allen supplied has opened my eyes.
     
    Dimensional error:
    I know I mentioned 5/8” to 2”.  A couple were as much as 6” or 7” at full scale.  Presently I’ve cleaned them all up … or so I want to believe.  At the reduced model build scale (whatever it will be) I feel I might be too finicky with some of the smaller dimensional deviations but I’d rather spend the time now as opposed to wondering what happened later… or I am just being to ALAN (re-arrange the letters and you will get it).
     
    Presently I am not making much headway in my virtual part of the build but there is a flurry of activity in the self-schooling portion.  I know I should have done more of this earlier but you know what they say about hindsight. My head was inflated and I am humbled by the experience. Hope to be posting minor progress soon.
     
    On another note, I picked up a 12.5” planer last night (adjusts down to 3/16”), got it out of the box and the outer casing was cracked.  Exchanging it tonight!
     
    Alan
  5. Like
    AON got a reaction from popash42 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    Steel's Vade Mecum for the Shipbuilder 
     
    Browsed through it last night and I have to say it was like reading "The last of the Mohicans" which is a book I particularly enjoyed but took awhile to get the language prose.
     
    This is a completely and totally new language.
    I thought it would be English (there is that learning curve again)  
     
    I particularly enjoyed the one table where Google took great care in copying (see image below)
    And I really needed a "map" that would explain what all the items listed were to the layman... then I came to the folded images at the end and got all excited as I might have the key or Rosetta Stone if you will to understand it all.
    Flipped the page and .....  nothing.... to my great disappointment I find they didn't bother to unfold it. (see image below)
     
    I love a challenge ... I love a challenge .. I love a ... 
     
    Alan
     


  6. Wow!
    AON got a reaction from popash42 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    SKETCHING FRAME  –0-
      1. Copy the original plan sketch out and rename FRAME –0- 2. Remove all other Planes and Frames not relating to –0- 3. Measure the deck levels off the original plan and add lines to the Frame drawing to represent the levels   NOTE: all deck levels should have been drawn onto the Sheer Plan already to assure they shape/blend properly but I jumped ahead on this one because I needed to do something different at this moment.  As I will start from Station –O- when I do this I should be okay with this frame.   4. Measure the frame thickness at the deck levels at Frame –O- and add points to the Frame drawing to represent these thickness 5. Draw a spline line for the inside of the frame joining the few points 6. Add a series of new spline points to the spline and adjust them to reshape the inner shape of the frame 7. Sketch in the Deadwood on top of the keel 8. Sketch in Futtock Lines (where the frame joints will be).   These are done “by eye” guessing where the best break would be in a length of timber due to change in grain direction.   9. Layout the Scarph (scarf?) Chock, Hooked or Plain Scarf Joints.   Using the rules stated on pages 29 and 30 of “The Elements of Wood Ship Construction” by Curtis 1919 (length not less than 6 times the depth) I could not fit a plain or hooked scarf joint anywhere along the curved sections of the frame as the material became too thin.  These type joints seem to be meant to be used on less curved sections. Therefore I used the Scarph (scarf?) joint as referenced in "Historic Ship Models" by Wolfram Zu Mondfeld (pg 78) and "A Ship Model Makers Manual" by John Bowen (pg 77).   (Thank you yet again for the books!)   10. Copy the file out and rename it TEMPLATE Frame -0- and change all lines to be construction lines.  Use this template to begin all individual models for frame -0- 11. Copy the file out again and rename it CROSS CHOCK.  Change all cross chock lines to object lines. Add points on the curved lines and draw a splined object line over it.  Fully dimension/define the object lines and extrude the shape to complete the model of the Cross Chock.   (Fully define means to lock each point and line in position so it cannot accidentally float away in the future and create havoc and total chaos).   12. Repeat for all Butt Chocks and then for all Futtocks. 13. Assemble Frame –O- 3D model. 










  7. Like
    AON got a reaction from popash42 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    I completed the finicky tweaking of all points on all section lines.
    Had to make compromises, blending well and looking aesthetically pleasing won out over clashing dimensions.
     
    This is the last batch of section line development sketches.
    I am going to model section -0- frame because I need to do something different before I go back to more sketches... I am certain many following may be getting as bored as I am at the moment (plus my head hurts!).  
     
    I think the momentary change will recharge my batteries!         
     
    Alan




  8. Like
    AON got a reaction from aviaamator in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    SKETCHING FRAME  –0-
      1. Copy the original plan sketch out and rename FRAME –0- 2. Remove all other Planes and Frames not relating to –0- 3. Measure the deck levels off the original plan and add lines to the Frame drawing to represent the levels   NOTE: all deck levels should have been drawn onto the Sheer Plan already to assure they shape/blend properly but I jumped ahead on this one because I needed to do something different at this moment.  As I will start from Station –O- when I do this I should be okay with this frame.   4. Measure the frame thickness at the deck levels at Frame –O- and add points to the Frame drawing to represent these thickness 5. Draw a spline line for the inside of the frame joining the few points 6. Add a series of new spline points to the spline and adjust them to reshape the inner shape of the frame 7. Sketch in the Deadwood on top of the keel 8. Sketch in Futtock Lines (where the frame joints will be).   These are done “by eye” guessing where the best break would be in a length of timber due to change in grain direction.   9. Layout the Scarph (scarf?) Chock, Hooked or Plain Scarf Joints.   Using the rules stated on pages 29 and 30 of “The Elements of Wood Ship Construction” by Curtis 1919 (length not less than 6 times the depth) I could not fit a plain or hooked scarf joint anywhere along the curved sections of the frame as the material became too thin.  These type joints seem to be meant to be used on less curved sections. Therefore I used the Scarph (scarf?) joint as referenced in "Historic Ship Models" by Wolfram Zu Mondfeld (pg 78) and "A Ship Model Makers Manual" by John Bowen (pg 77).   (Thank you yet again for the books!)   10. Copy the file out and rename it TEMPLATE Frame -0- and change all lines to be construction lines.  Use this template to begin all individual models for frame -0- 11. Copy the file out again and rename it CROSS CHOCK.  Change all cross chock lines to object lines. Add points on the curved lines and draw a splined object line over it.  Fully dimension/define the object lines and extrude the shape to complete the model of the Cross Chock.   (Fully define means to lock each point and line in position so it cannot accidentally float away in the future and create havoc and total chaos).   12. Repeat for all Butt Chocks and then for all Futtocks. 13. Assemble Frame –O- 3D model. 










  9. Like
    AON got a reaction from eh91losc in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    I completed the finicky tweaking of all points on all section lines.
    Had to make compromises, blending well and looking aesthetically pleasing won out over clashing dimensions.
     
    This is the last batch of section line development sketches.
    I am going to model section -0- frame because I need to do something different before I go back to more sketches... I am certain many following may be getting as bored as I am at the moment (plus my head hurts!).  
     
    I think the momentary change will recharge my batteries!         
     
    Alan




  10. Like
    AON reacted to alangr4 in Echo by alangr4 - cross-section - in memory of Eli (31.1.14-3.2.14)   
    Thank you Ben, Christian, Mark, Maury, Jim L, Tim C, Wacko Wolf and Ryland Craze for your kind messages of support. They are very much appreciated. 
     
    Jim: I'm not sure you are going to learn much from my thread other than what not to do but I have certainly appreciated your build as well as Ben and Maury's. I have learnt a lot from you all.
     
    I particularly liked your use of an architects ruler to show your measurements. Unfortunately Australia went metric some time ago (although in my life time) and I had to hunt for quite a while to find an appropriate imperial measure architect's ruler.
     
    Set out below is my latest update on the build and a couple of pics. One question which may be answered somewhere else on the site is what is the recommended lens for taking pics of the builds? The pics that Greg took as part of the instructions are terrific and help enormously 
     
    Anyhow for the moment. The keel has been glued up and rested for a couple of days to ensure it was fully bonded.
     

     
    This morning after a few practice runs the rabbet was cut in. I cleaned up the rabbet manually with a v gouge.
     


     
    The most significant lesson for me from this part of the build was making sure the Sherline was absolutely squarely aligned for cutting the rabbet. Fortunately the practice runs highlighted the potential this had for ruining one's day.
     
    Next stage is installing the bolts.
     
    My wife threw out the other day some bamboo skewers that would have been ideal for making the bolts - so on to plan B.
     
    I'll let you know what plan B is once I have figured it out.
     
    Until the next update, thank you again for your kind messages and I hope this is of interest.
     
    Regards
     
     
    Alan
     
     
     
     
     
  11. Like
    AON reacted to Trussben in ECHO by Trussben - FINISHED - 1:48 - cross-section   
    Finally managed to spend a couple of hours in the shipyard, seems like years but I should start to get more time now that the weather has changed and work on the house has been completed.
     
    I installed the gun/sweep port sills and lintles, removed the temp spacers below the gunport, and have started fairing it all down. I started with 100 grit, then 220 and now at 320. When finished I will install the keelson and the ribband, remove the rest of the temp spacers and add the last piece of frame above the gunport.
     
    ben


  12. Like
    AON reacted to allanyed in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    Alan,
    Maybe the following will help a bit.  It has the scantlings from the Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture, SR and the Elephant contract. 
    Allan
    74 gun frames.pdf
  13. Like
    AON got a reaction from coxswain in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    Thank you Dave,
     
    I am familiar with engineering drawing prints stretching and have had heated discussions with the young'uns measuring directly off a print on the shop floor.
    No idea how 200+years distorts stuff so your warning is timely.
     
    I have been working on the measurements this afternoon.
    Completed the Buttocks Lines in the Shear Plan (almost looks like I know what I am talking about, eh?) and made adjustments so the overall dimension matches.
     
    Just now realized the program allows me to put a scale factor in so it corrects the measurement to full size automatically.... DUH!
    Working on the Waterlines in the Half Breadth Plan now.
  14. Like
    AON got a reaction from avsjerome2003 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    Thanks again!
    Would you think it would be smart to set up the model build at an angle so the waterlines were horizontal for the build?
     
    I got a wee bit of a second wind after supper and got a small start on the CAD side.
     
    I should mention I am doing all at this time in construction lines not object lines.
    I intend to copy the file as individual station numbers and then change the sketched lines to objects and build the 3D parts
    Then I will create an Assembly file and put them together.
     
    I may change this thinking as I progress ... have to see if it still makes sense.



  15. Like
    AON got a reaction from jchbeiner in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    What a learning experience this has been!
     
    Found the "stretch" in the drawing while measuring and had to go back and double check everything I did in the Shear Plan.
    I attribute it to the accuracy of a pencil plus the 250 years of storage.
    Had to compromise on a ratio and accept the fact that it will not be exact.
    Consoled myself with the fact the actual build likely was not exact either.
    Reworked my spreadsheet (see partial image below).
     
    I did some comparison to the Goliath plans and they seem very much the same although drawn by two very different draughtsmen.  There are differences to be seen between the plans with regards to the railing over gun ports and railing height at these gun positions. Elephant rails rise over the two gun ports on each side and Goliath flows level over one and is cut away at the other.  Possibly more to be found yet as I spend more time with them.
     
    One other thing that played with my mind was that the waterlines in the shear and body plans are sloped.  I thought they'd be horizontal.
     
    Going to start my CAD drawing next but not today... my head hurts.

  16. Like
    AON got a reaction from avsjerome2003 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    Completed collecting data from HMS Elephant shear and half breadth plans. Need the waterline heights yet.
    Will do same for HMS Goliath (tomorrow?) and compare just for the heck of it to see if there is much difference.
    I should be able to start transferring the data to CAD soon.
     
    I should also mention that in the PDF program settings I was able to lock the dimension tool to read perfectly horizontal or vertical so no math needed to be done!  

  17. Like
    AON got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    My build log... back dated to what I consider my actual date of commencement up to today events.
     
    31 Dec 2013
    Found information on HMS Bellerophon on the internet which rekindled a spark.
     
    My interest in the Billy Ruffian stems from my joining #141 Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Corps Bellerophon of Welland Ontario Canada in 1967 at 12 and a wee bit years of age.  I have not been involved in the cadet movement for over a quarter century now but those great memories haven't died away.
     
    04 Jan 2014
    Stumbled onto modelshipworld.com and after skulking about for an hour decided to join the group; intend to actually scratch build the first Bellerophon
    Looking at various Arrogant class build logs (Vanguard & Bellerophon kits) Looking at Victory and Bellona build logs Looking at tools, build methods and little tricks used Overwhelmed with the work done by others and information available; realize how little I know; determined to do my homework. My last (and only) scratch build was a 27 ft whaler.  I was quite familiar with them (and the 30 ft. cutters) as I worked at the boat shed at HMCS Quadra for two summers. Found literature on rigging details on another site; looking for info on mast size details.
     
    Got info for plans from forum to order from NMM. Found four plans:
    HMS Arrogant (too early; they made changes to the design later) HMS Edgar (ordered well before but launched after Bellerophon) HMS Goliath (ordered after Edgar, launched before Bellerophon; should record the changes made from Edgar on) HMS Elephant (built same time as Bellerophon so may be the best plan). £60 each = $107 CDN ... pretty steep. E-mailed NMM to see if there was a “buy in bulk” price discount.  These plans are about 3 ft x 7 feet each. Not sure where I can lay them out to use and NMM insists they cannot be copied (to make a working set and keep these clean).  This presents a problem. I decided not to look at HMS Vanguard as it was the last of the ships built... well after the Bellerophon... and so might possibly have other changes.
     
    11 Jan 2014
    Realize if I download build photos and reference documents into folders from the FORUM and other sites and build my own reference library I will retain more of what I see in my memory (works for me as I am “hands on” type of learner).  This has kept me busy!
     
    15 Jan 2014
    My ex CPO (a modeller by night and Mechanical Engineer in the Pulp and Paper industry by day) recommended “The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1860 by James Lee; Found on Amazon and Abesbooks.com, pretty pricey at $100+
     
    Found on inter-library loan (Gateneau, Quebec, Government Library, 3 week duration, 3 renewals, no charge); this will allow me to decide (for free) if I should buy the book.
     
    Found Rigging Model Ships – A Practicum by Robert E. Hunt 2013 on forum  www.lauckstreetshipyard.com at $119 … once again quite steep
     
    16 Jan 2014
    Discovered there are two different figureheads for the Bellerophon; Downloaded photographs to my reference library. The first has only the neck and head remaining but is said to have been a full body. The second was torso and head. I intend to recreate the first using the second for inspiration!
     
    30 Jan 2014
    Received a collection of modelling reference books purchased from a member of this site.  Most turn out to be exactly what this sorrowful example of a modeler needs. Talk about an idiot`s luck!
     
    08 Feb 2014
    After some confusion (mostly on my part) I finally ordered and downloaded the TIFF ships plans from NMM.  Decided on the TIFF image as it is the clearest possible and I do not have the room to layout 7 foot long plans.
    HMS Goliath, one image - lines HMS Elephant, two images - lines and deck plans  
    It cost me £150 for the set of three (3) images. They gave me the three JPEG images (quoted at £50 a set) for free.  There is a considerable difference in detail between the two types of files.  I am not disappointed.
    TIFF images are 729Mb, 722Mb and 905Mb JPEG images are quite small (1Kb or less) at 300 DPI  
    My PDF program (from which I can measure) will not open the TIFF images because they are too large for it and the JPEG images are too grainy.
     
    Converted the TIFFs to PDFs at 1200 x 1200 (Largest the program would allow) and they are very clear!
     
    Now I intend to get my measurements off the electronic images and redraw in Solidworks to be able to create templates.  I will start my posting of images from here. Might be a while as I have to figure out quite a bit and the first step is always the hardest.  Once I have the plans partially redrawn I can make a final decision regarding the scale of the scratch build and degree of finish or completeness as I will also have to decide where the final display resting place might be.
     
    I have stepped through to the dark side … no going back now, eh?
     
    Following photos are clips taken from my PDF program showing how I intend to get my measurements.
     
    I will use the scale provided on the drawings to convert my small measurements to full size.
    It is difficult to get a perfectly vertical or horizontal measurement so I will need to use some old fashion trig calcs to make corrections like the straw man said in the wizard of oz; record all data in excel and then transfer the info to Solidworks.


  18. Like
    AON got a reaction from fatih79 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    I completed the finicky tweaking of all points on all section lines.
    Had to make compromises, blending well and looking aesthetically pleasing won out over clashing dimensions.
     
    This is the last batch of section line development sketches.
    I am going to model section -0- frame because I need to do something different before I go back to more sketches... I am certain many following may be getting as bored as I am at the moment (plus my head hurts!).  
     
    I think the momentary change will recharge my batteries!         
     
    Alan




  19. Like
    AON got a reaction from popash42 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    Progress to date
    Stations 2 to 16 yet to complete
    Once this stage is done I intend to review them all together and assure their shape is consistent with the original plan (nothing looks out of place or odd).
    When I am happy with this I will add an internal detail sketch (deck levels)
    One step at a time ... long way to go before creating 3D part models (templates)
     
    Alan

  20. Wow!
    AON got a reaction from popash42 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    Today's progress....
    Managed to get from -O- to Y Foward Section Lines done.
    I measured these off the Body Plan and compared to the Half Breadth Plan.
    They are not too far off and blend nicely .. but it took some manipulation of a few sections to look right.
     
    So far I am happy with the out come .
    Next are the Aft Section Lines.
    But not tonight     
     
    Alan





  21. Like
    AON got a reaction from dnputnam in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    Thanks again!
    Would you think it would be smart to set up the model build at an angle so the waterlines were horizontal for the build?
     
    I got a wee bit of a second wind after supper and got a small start on the CAD side.
     
    I should mention I am doing all at this time in construction lines not object lines.
    I intend to copy the file as individual station numbers and then change the sketched lines to objects and build the 3D parts
    Then I will create an Assembly file and put them together.
     
    I may change this thinking as I progress ... have to see if it still makes sense.



  22. Like
    AON got a reaction from popash42 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    My build log... back dated to what I consider my actual date of commencement up to today events.
     
    31 Dec 2013
    Found information on HMS Bellerophon on the internet which rekindled a spark.
     
    My interest in the Billy Ruffian stems from my joining #141 Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Corps Bellerophon of Welland Ontario Canada in 1967 at 12 and a wee bit years of age.  I have not been involved in the cadet movement for over a quarter century now but those great memories haven't died away.
     
    04 Jan 2014
    Stumbled onto modelshipworld.com and after skulking about for an hour decided to join the group; intend to actually scratch build the first Bellerophon
    Looking at various Arrogant class build logs (Vanguard & Bellerophon kits) Looking at Victory and Bellona build logs Looking at tools, build methods and little tricks used Overwhelmed with the work done by others and information available; realize how little I know; determined to do my homework. My last (and only) scratch build was a 27 ft whaler.  I was quite familiar with them (and the 30 ft. cutters) as I worked at the boat shed at HMCS Quadra for two summers. Found literature on rigging details on another site; looking for info on mast size details.
     
    Got info for plans from forum to order from NMM. Found four plans:
    HMS Arrogant (too early; they made changes to the design later) HMS Edgar (ordered well before but launched after Bellerophon) HMS Goliath (ordered after Edgar, launched before Bellerophon; should record the changes made from Edgar on) HMS Elephant (built same time as Bellerophon so may be the best plan). £60 each = $107 CDN ... pretty steep. E-mailed NMM to see if there was a “buy in bulk” price discount.  These plans are about 3 ft x 7 feet each. Not sure where I can lay them out to use and NMM insists they cannot be copied (to make a working set and keep these clean).  This presents a problem. I decided not to look at HMS Vanguard as it was the last of the ships built... well after the Bellerophon... and so might possibly have other changes.
     
    11 Jan 2014
    Realize if I download build photos and reference documents into folders from the FORUM and other sites and build my own reference library I will retain more of what I see in my memory (works for me as I am “hands on” type of learner).  This has kept me busy!
     
    15 Jan 2014
    My ex CPO (a modeller by night and Mechanical Engineer in the Pulp and Paper industry by day) recommended “The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1860 by James Lee; Found on Amazon and Abesbooks.com, pretty pricey at $100+
     
    Found on inter-library loan (Gateneau, Quebec, Government Library, 3 week duration, 3 renewals, no charge); this will allow me to decide (for free) if I should buy the book.
     
    Found Rigging Model Ships – A Practicum by Robert E. Hunt 2013 on forum  www.lauckstreetshipyard.com at $119 … once again quite steep
     
    16 Jan 2014
    Discovered there are two different figureheads for the Bellerophon; Downloaded photographs to my reference library. The first has only the neck and head remaining but is said to have been a full body. The second was torso and head. I intend to recreate the first using the second for inspiration!
     
    30 Jan 2014
    Received a collection of modelling reference books purchased from a member of this site.  Most turn out to be exactly what this sorrowful example of a modeler needs. Talk about an idiot`s luck!
     
    08 Feb 2014
    After some confusion (mostly on my part) I finally ordered and downloaded the TIFF ships plans from NMM.  Decided on the TIFF image as it is the clearest possible and I do not have the room to layout 7 foot long plans.
    HMS Goliath, one image - lines HMS Elephant, two images - lines and deck plans  
    It cost me £150 for the set of three (3) images. They gave me the three JPEG images (quoted at £50 a set) for free.  There is a considerable difference in detail between the two types of files.  I am not disappointed.
    TIFF images are 729Mb, 722Mb and 905Mb JPEG images are quite small (1Kb or less) at 300 DPI  
    My PDF program (from which I can measure) will not open the TIFF images because they are too large for it and the JPEG images are too grainy.
     
    Converted the TIFFs to PDFs at 1200 x 1200 (Largest the program would allow) and they are very clear!
     
    Now I intend to get my measurements off the electronic images and redraw in Solidworks to be able to create templates.  I will start my posting of images from here. Might be a while as I have to figure out quite a bit and the first step is always the hardest.  Once I have the plans partially redrawn I can make a final decision regarding the scale of the scratch build and degree of finish or completeness as I will also have to decide where the final display resting place might be.
     
    I have stepped through to the dark side … no going back now, eh?
     
    Following photos are clips taken from my PDF program showing how I intend to get my measurements.
     
    I will use the scale provided on the drawings to convert my small measurements to full size.
    It is difficult to get a perfectly vertical or horizontal measurement so I will need to use some old fashion trig calcs to make corrections like the straw man said in the wizard of oz; record all data in excel and then transfer the info to Solidworks.


  23. Like
    AON got a reaction from harvey1847 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    SKETCHING FRAME  –0-
      1. Copy the original plan sketch out and rename FRAME –0- 2. Remove all other Planes and Frames not relating to –0- 3. Measure the deck levels off the original plan and add lines to the Frame drawing to represent the levels   NOTE: all deck levels should have been drawn onto the Sheer Plan already to assure they shape/blend properly but I jumped ahead on this one because I needed to do something different at this moment.  As I will start from Station –O- when I do this I should be okay with this frame.   4. Measure the frame thickness at the deck levels at Frame –O- and add points to the Frame drawing to represent these thickness 5. Draw a spline line for the inside of the frame joining the few points 6. Add a series of new spline points to the spline and adjust them to reshape the inner shape of the frame 7. Sketch in the Deadwood on top of the keel 8. Sketch in Futtock Lines (where the frame joints will be).   These are done “by eye” guessing where the best break would be in a length of timber due to change in grain direction.   9. Layout the Scarph (scarf?) Chock, Hooked or Plain Scarf Joints.   Using the rules stated on pages 29 and 30 of “The Elements of Wood Ship Construction” by Curtis 1919 (length not less than 6 times the depth) I could not fit a plain or hooked scarf joint anywhere along the curved sections of the frame as the material became too thin.  These type joints seem to be meant to be used on less curved sections. Therefore I used the Scarph (scarf?) joint as referenced in "Historic Ship Models" by Wolfram Zu Mondfeld (pg 78) and "A Ship Model Makers Manual" by John Bowen (pg 77).   (Thank you yet again for the books!)   10. Copy the file out and rename it TEMPLATE Frame -0- and change all lines to be construction lines.  Use this template to begin all individual models for frame -0- 11. Copy the file out again and rename it CROSS CHOCK.  Change all cross chock lines to object lines. Add points on the curved lines and draw a splined object line over it.  Fully dimension/define the object lines and extrude the shape to complete the model of the Cross Chock.   (Fully define means to lock each point and line in position so it cannot accidentally float away in the future and create havoc and total chaos).   12. Repeat for all Butt Chocks and then for all Futtocks. 13. Assemble Frame –O- 3D model. 










  24. Like
    AON got a reaction from Elmer Cornish in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    I completed the finicky tweaking of all points on all section lines.
    Had to make compromises, blending well and looking aesthetically pleasing won out over clashing dimensions.
     
    This is the last batch of section line development sketches.
    I am going to model section -0- frame because I need to do something different before I go back to more sketches... I am certain many following may be getting as bored as I am at the moment (plus my head hurts!).  
     
    I think the momentary change will recharge my batteries!         
     
    Alan




  25. Like
    AON got a reaction from fatih79 in HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class   
    SKETCHING FRAME  –0-
      1. Copy the original plan sketch out and rename FRAME –0- 2. Remove all other Planes and Frames not relating to –0- 3. Measure the deck levels off the original plan and add lines to the Frame drawing to represent the levels   NOTE: all deck levels should have been drawn onto the Sheer Plan already to assure they shape/blend properly but I jumped ahead on this one because I needed to do something different at this moment.  As I will start from Station –O- when I do this I should be okay with this frame.   4. Measure the frame thickness at the deck levels at Frame –O- and add points to the Frame drawing to represent these thickness 5. Draw a spline line for the inside of the frame joining the few points 6. Add a series of new spline points to the spline and adjust them to reshape the inner shape of the frame 7. Sketch in the Deadwood on top of the keel 8. Sketch in Futtock Lines (where the frame joints will be).   These are done “by eye” guessing where the best break would be in a length of timber due to change in grain direction.   9. Layout the Scarph (scarf?) Chock, Hooked or Plain Scarf Joints.   Using the rules stated on pages 29 and 30 of “The Elements of Wood Ship Construction” by Curtis 1919 (length not less than 6 times the depth) I could not fit a plain or hooked scarf joint anywhere along the curved sections of the frame as the material became too thin.  These type joints seem to be meant to be used on less curved sections. Therefore I used the Scarph (scarf?) joint as referenced in "Historic Ship Models" by Wolfram Zu Mondfeld (pg 78) and "A Ship Model Makers Manual" by John Bowen (pg 77).   (Thank you yet again for the books!)   10. Copy the file out and rename it TEMPLATE Frame -0- and change all lines to be construction lines.  Use this template to begin all individual models for frame -0- 11. Copy the file out again and rename it CROSS CHOCK.  Change all cross chock lines to object lines. Add points on the curved lines and draw a splined object line over it.  Fully dimension/define the object lines and extrude the shape to complete the model of the Cross Chock.   (Fully define means to lock each point and line in position so it cannot accidentally float away in the future and create havoc and total chaos).   12. Repeat for all Butt Chocks and then for all Futtocks. 13. Assemble Frame –O- 3D model. 










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