Rattlesnake by Martin W - FINISHED - Mamoli - 1:64 - Kit-Bashed

[RiverRat]

Martin!

 

You're frightening    me with all that I'll have to deal with in the future!

 

Sounds like I'll need to spring for the MS plans after reading this discussion again. You seem to be doing a conscientous job trying to get the details right. Hope I can be as patient.

 

Brian

[russ]

Martin:

The detail of your spars look very good. Very nice work. You are doing research and that is never a bad idea.

 

Russ

[Martin W]

Hi Brian -- There are LOADS and LOADS of details, and they never stop.  Sometimes I do wake up at night and tremble at the thought.  YIKES.

 

And Russ, as I said, it's your suggestion that I get the MS plans that has made a huge difference.  The research makes not only for more fun, but also makes you understand why and how those countless details come together.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Blue Ensign]

You have been busy Martin, quite a bit of progress. I like your approach to checking out the relative sizes of rigging and associated tackle.

 

A neat solution for the Euphroe, remember a groove needs to go around the outside edge to take the strop.

 

With regard to the Futtock plates not much can be done with these until you are much further along in the build. The Futtock shrouds usually attach to the plates with small hooks but this can only be done once the lower shrouds are in place. You may then also wish to check the relative length of the plates which should  hang around two scale feet below the top.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

[Martin W]

Hi BE -- thanks loads for the tips.  I actually have put the groove around the euphroe -- and there was a fine example of eye strain.  My real concern about those is how much the lack of perfect alignment in the holes will show up in the crows feet (and by the bye, is it crows feet, or crow's feet, or crows' feet?).

 

And the length of those plates does worry me.  Just eye-balling them makes me think they're too long, but I'm not sure how I would shorten them.  I'd secretly hoped that when I tightend the loops around the deadeyes that they would magically rise upward just the right amount.  As for the hooks, I've seen D Antscherl's description, and will give that a shot.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Blue Ensign]

I tend to refer to 'Crowsfeet'

 

Are those Futtock plates made of soft metal, if so you may be able to drill holes further up the  plate by hand and then reduce the length.

 

A job for later tho' once you can see what's involved.

 

B.E.

[Martin W]

You're right, BE, they are of an almost lead-like softness.  And I'll do just that, and will wait till the futtocks are ready to futtocked.

 

"Crowsfeet" definitely bypasses that little problem of the drifting apostrophe.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[JPett]

Ahoy Martin

 

Your rigging looks great. I also noticed that this new round of photos really shows off what a great job you did on your build.

 

Thanks for sharing. Following is so much easier "lol"

[Martin W]

Thanks, JPett, that's nice encouragement coming from someone who has taken plenty of care with his own build.

 

I might also mention that I'm getting closer and closer to making my big decision about which mill to buy.  Some of the reviews of the Proxxon suggest that, at least the American models, have motor problems.  I've been checking out the Micro Mark version.  And I'm still interested in the Vanda Lay.  I don't know which will be the one that shows up on my doorstep.  But first I need to make some progress on my workshop.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[JSGerson]

Luckily I am not so far along as you are in building Hunt's kitbash, so I can follow in someone else's footsteps. Because your log starts at the rigging stage and therefore does not describe the hull construction,  I am curious as to whether or not you used the metal belay pins that came with the Mamoli kit or opted to make your own or buy wooden ones. If you did use the kit's pins, how did you handle the coloring of them (stain, paint, etc.)? I'd be real curious as how you made them if you did that. If you bought them, from whom, what size did you purchase, and were you satisfied with the product?

 

Even though the construction of the pin rails were addressed in Chapter 8 of his practicum, he addresses drilling the pin holes and installing the belay pins in Chapter 9. I've already installed the quarterdeck rail without the holes which I think is wrong and plan to drill the holes before the foredeck rail is assembled, hence my questions.

 

Thanks 

[russ]

I hope that Martin does not mind me breaking in here, but for coloring the brass belaying pins, you can get a metal toner to do this. I get mine from Bluejacket Shipcrafters in Maine. They sell a product called Brass Brown. It works like a blackening toner, but it colors the brass a medium brown color. I have used it and it works well. They also sell brass belaying pins of various sizes.

 

http://www.bluejacketinc.com/fittings/toners.htm

 

Now, back to Martin's build log.

 

Russ

[Martin W]

Russ gives good advice.  I used some pins that I had on hand, and frankly don't remember if they were from the Mamoli kit, or left over from another kit.  They're black, and look ok, I guess.  I think medium brown ones would look better.  Since they're all going to be covered up with the extra rope, I didn't think indulging in wooden ones was that compelling of a detail.

 

And i agree that drilling the holes for the pins before installing the rails will make life easier.  I lacked your foresight on this bit, and ended up having real headaches drilling the holes without breaking the rails, and keeping everything lined up. 

 

I might start keeping a list of steps that would have been better done earlier on, as in before pieces are installed.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[JSGerson]

Thanks Russ & Martin. I'll use what came with the kit and buy any additional ones if the need arises.

[Martin W]

In studying the different plans in hopes of checking off all the details prior to starting on the running rigging and raising the spars, I noticed (from MS) that the Main Topgallant Stay runs through a thimble in the Fore Topmast Head and then “sets up with thimbles and lanyard on a spot between the Fore Topmanst Trestle Trees.”  There are two illustrations in the plans of the thimble set in the trestle trees: this takes a span of 2 legs coming off the thimble that then tie onto the aft portion of the trestles trees.

I then noticed that both the Mizzen Topmast Stay & the Main Topmast Stay tie off in a similar fashion at the top to the fore of them (ie, Mizzen to the Main top, and Main to the Fore top).

Ok, these thimbles pose a problem.  I’ve got a pile of bullseyes on hand, but they’re much too big.  Bob Hunt just uses blocks, but they look odd as the end-points of the rigging.  And there seem to be thimbles all over the place.  For the three with the spans, I came up with a solution that I hope will work.  

Using my serving machine, I served some very thin line – .025 – with some of the same diameter, both tarred.  I then seized a loop at one end, using a small gauge thingy that is meant for forming loops in wire.  And I left enough unserved line to go around the Trestle Trees so that I could seize loops and try to get the seizing to match with the serving.  Here’s the span prior to going on the Trestle Trees:

 

And here it is mounted on the Fore Trestle Trees:

 

To make the “thimble” stiff enough to hold the lanyard taut, I coated it with diluted glue that dries clear.  It will give some, but should keep its circular shape for the most part.

Now, the two spans in the tops posed a slightly different problem, in that there was no access to the Trestle Trees provided by the way I’d attached the top, and given that the shrouds and other parts of the standing rigging were already piled up around the mast.  My solution, which violated the standard of accuracy, but was the only apparent option short of redoing the tops, was to seize each leg of the span to an eyebolt that I then set into the planking of the top. Here’s the result:



As for the numerous other thimbles, such as those through which the Topgallant Lifts run, I don’t know . . . . Suggestions welcome.   

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

Edited July 3, 2013 by Martin W

[JSGerson]

Just a couple of quick questions, who makes serving machines and where did you get yours?

[Martin W]

Here's the link:

 

http://shipahoymodels.com/equipmentforsale.htm

 

You'll be astonished at how easy it is to use.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Martin re the thimbles; in the past I've used cuts off styrene, brass, and aluminium tubing to form a thimble around which I ca the line before seizing. I've also used tiny plastic seed beads flattened off. I used those for the bowlines on my 1:150 scale Seventy-four model.

 

Thanks for reminding me about Shipahoy Models. I have their serving machine but I now see they also do a sander/thicknesser a fair bit cheaper than the Proxxon version I am trying to resist buying at the moment, a little more delving is required I think.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

[Martin W]

Thanks for that, BE.  If I can find some tubing small enough, and a metal-cutting saw, I'll give it a shot.  Styrene tubing actually sounds like it would be the easiest to work with.  Plastic seed beads? Hmmm -- well now, i do have a big box of beads, and the local hobby store has an entire aisle of Beadery Supplies, so that's something to check out as well.

 

Could you use an American machine like those from Shipahoy?  I would think the shipping alone would make them prohibitively expensive.  And I haven't heard anyone who has actually used them.

 

Along a similar line, I'm really thinking about a Proxxon mill, but have read some negative reviews on Amazon so have wondered if maybe the American versions don't run as well (since we insist on 110 volt current, just as we resist the metric system and May Day).

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Martin W]

Friends -- I've made a wee bit of progress, mostly attaching eye bolts, cleats, and the final blocks (and doing checks to make sure I've actually done them all, especially in those hard to reach places).  No photos this time, since eyebolts aren't the most photogenic details.

 

 

But I have a question that I hope someone can help me with.  The MS plans show an "Iron Horse" just behind the tiller, and to which several lines of the running rigging are attached.  Well, I can't find a reference to this ferrous equine anywhere else, and wonder if someone can give me a clue, a hint, a clear explanation of just what it is and why.  Would it really be metal?  The MS drawing is basically a line that makes me think it might be a kind of smallish bitts. 

 

Any ideas?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[RiverRat]

Hi Martin,

 

I had a topic concerning these earlier. See if it helps your understanding....

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1744-horse-for-boom-sheet/?hl=horse

 

Brian

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Martin, an iron horse to me is an iron bar fixed at both ends and parallel to the deck to which the boom sheet is attached and allowed to travel along the length of the horse according to the trim of the sail. Sometimes the bar is attached to the taffrail of a vessel. Not sure abouit several lines being attached tho', which ones does it say are attached? perhaps a photo may help.

 

ps thanks for the info about American machines and power differences, I hadn't thought about that.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

[russ]

Martin:

B.E. Is correct about the iron horse. This would be used for a sheet block most likely. The block is shackled to the iron horse and this allows the block to travel along the horizontal length of the horse. As for several other lines, I do not know what lines they are talking about.

 

Russ

[Martin W]

Russ & BE -- thanks for the clarification.  In looking back over the MS plans I see that only one line comes down to the iron horse -- the "several" was the result of my anxiety overblowing a detail.

 

And thanks Brian for the link.  That picture helps especially to show just how tall the horse needs to be (roughly 2 hands at the withers, I'd say).

 

I'm also going to have to go back and look at both the Hahn & Mamoli plans more carefully, since I realize I hadn't seen any equine on them.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Martin W]

So, I  worked  out the matter of the Iron Horse, though haven't taken any photos, since it's pretty plain -- just a blackened thick wire, bent into shape and set behind the tiller with a double block seized by a thimble.

 

That was pretty much (I hope, I dream, I surely delude myself) the final item on the long checklist of little details that needed to be installed before starting to attach the standing rigging.  And so last night I took a deep breath and attached the first deadeyes.  On my one and only other build, these gave me endless headaches as I did them over and over and still couldn't get them to line up even close.  This time I used the handy jig -- the piece of wire inserted into the 2 deadeyes -- to set the distance.  And here's the consequence -- starboard then port:

 

 

 

 

Now, to my eye, the lanyards look a bit long.  Antscherl gives a length of 3 times the diameter of the deadeye, and that seems to be fairly standard.  But all 3 plans of the Rattlesnake show the lanyards to be just about this long.

 

I might also point out that on the starboard side, I ran the lanyard through the shroud above the top deadeye incorrectly from outside to in.  I realized my mistake when doing the corresponding port lanyard and went back and corrected it.

 

It's also worth mentioning that the lanyards (.02 mm Egyptian cotton) aren't nearly a white as they appear in the photos.

 

If anyone sees something I've done wrong, I'd appreciate hearing about it.  I've left off trimming the loose ends until I'm sure that I've actually got the procedure down.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[russ]

Martin:

Just to be certain, you are beginning with the forwardmost shrouds on the starboard side, right?

 

Russ

[Martin W]

Actually, Russ, these are the Mizzen shrouds.  I thought it would be easiest to move forward, since I would like to put in crowsfeet, and I thought that going aftwards would mean having the forward masts in the way.

 

Martin

[russ]

Martin:

I meant with the forwardmost shrouds on that mast. On each mast, they should be put on in pairs, starboard side forwardmost pair of shrouds goes first, then the pair to port, and so forth.

 

Russ

[Martin W]

That's right, Russ.  I'm doing the "gangs" of the mizzen, going from starboard to port with each shroud.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[russ]

Martin:

That sounds like you are rigging a pair with one to starboard and one to port. That is why I mentioned it. The first gang or pair go to starboard, then second gang goes to port and so forth.

 

Russ

[JPett]

Ahoy Martin

 

I am so glad you are working all this out for us Ratt Builders. Thank you for taking the time to post. I love the close-ups, They really show off all the extra details in your work

 

I also see you too have been afflicted with "insecta treenailius" or as it is more commonly know as the Treenail disease "lol". I am glad to see your case was only a mild one.