US Brig Niagara by mikiek - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - First wooden ship build

[Don Quixote]

Looking GREAT! Nice work.

[mikiek]

Thanks to all for the kind words. Yes there is a paint spot on the deck. Actually one of many. I'm having a little bit of deck installer's remorse. Thinking I should have sanded it down and varnished before installing. Would have been a heck of a lot easier then.

 

Speaking of that, if anyone knows, the deck has been stained but not finished. If I do some spot sanding can I then "spot stain"? I thought I read somewhere that multiple coats of stain keep darkening the wood. If I sand some spots and have to go all the way to the wood will restaining the area look good? Or will I end up with stained spots?

Edited June 7, 2016 by mikiek

[jbshan]

The stain will only go so dark.  You reach the point of diminishing returns.  Try to keep your spot treatment aligned with the actual planks so it will seem to be variations in the individual planks.

[mikiek]

The alignment tip is a great idea.  I really like the decks I've seen that showed color variation in the planks.

 

What I was concerned with was having to sand thru the existing stain in spots to remove some small spots of paint. Then when I spot stained, the "bald" spot gets it's single layer back but any surrounding area would get it's 2nd coat. So I end up with a darker circle around where I sanded.

 

Sounds like at places where the paint spots are I need to sand the entire plank not just the spot. It also sounds like I better make up a little bit of decking and try on that before the real deck. The Natural stain didn't seem to darken much the first time so hopefully it won't be a big problem now.

[jbshan]

I found MinWax 'pens' that do a great job controlling where the stain goes.

 

[mikiek]

I started making the pin rails last nite. No big deal there, but I am wondering about the actual pins. The materials list states Belaying - 120. 

 

I had apparently opened the packet and dumped the pins into a small container. Looking at them now, it appears there are 2 sizes. The majority are small. The larger pins are maybe 1/32" longer with a slightly fatter grip. I'm having difficulty trying to determine if there are truly 2 sizes (with 2 different purposes) or if it is just poor manufacturing.

 

Also, the pins are brass. Not sure if those would be left that way, blackened or should I find some replacement wood pins?

 

Edited: Now from the historical perspective I would think it likely that wood was used. Seems like in general that was the case. Also, I imagine metal and metalworkers were at a premium in Erie. Probably easier and cheaper to set a couple of guys in a corner somewhere with a pile of scrap branches and let them whittle away.

Edited June 7, 2016 by mikiek

[mikiek]

I found MinWax 'pens' that do a great job controlling where the stain goes.

 

 

How cool is that?  Just need to find my Natural color. Perfect!

 

Argh!  They don't make one in Natural

 

I think I can apply with one of my detail brushes or a Q-Tip.

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

I have been following your build log for months but never thought I would have anything intelligent to add.  On this issue however, I do have some experience.  I too built my Niagara Deck "off" the ship (cherry veneer strips on birch plywood sheet).  I used cherry to avoid having to deal with the challenges of staining the soft bass wood. I also have not glued the deck down and don't plan on doing so until it is absolutely necessary so as not to damage it.  I learned a lesson on that by painting my bulwarks, planksheer, waterways, and gun port linings before installing and then having to repaint many times over to repair damage that occurred during the build process.

 

I also concur with your concerns over restaining your deck.  It is very hard to predict how the basswood will take isolated applications of stain. Heck, full applications of stain to virgin soft wood will create blotches. Keeping it between the planks is really good advice.  Good luck doing it.  I for one know how tedious that will be.

 

We are at about the same place in our projects and now that I have found the courage to reveal my Niagara to the forum, and to the incredibly talented modelers like your self and others, I will follow along more conspicuously.

 

Darrell 

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

I forgot to add.  I happen to pick up three small bags of wooden belaying pins, stained dark brown, made my Model Expo from a hobby shop in town.  They were so dusty, they had to have been there for years. Unfortunately, they are just a little too large, and i don't have enough (45) to do the entire ship. Cutting them down however will be a lot easier than making them from scratch.  I therefore have to assume these are still available, I just have not had the time to search this out.

 

Darrell

[mikiek]

You are always welcome Darrell!  I still like doing the deck outside of the hull. The big caviat - not all hull designs let you do it. Working the bulwarks, hull and rails was MUCH easier. So many times during hull planking I was able to reach down and grab the hull from the top of the frame. Very easy and accessible. In fact the day after I glued the deck I still found myself reaching down to grab by the top.

 

Fortunately, the deck is boxwood. A lot harder than basswood. I made the switch early on. What you see now is about 20-30% basswood and the rest boxwood. It would be hard to ever use basswood again for anything that needed to be sanded or shaped. Last nite I needed an odd piece of strip to make pinrails. I had the basswood strip from the kit but could not find a similar one in boxwood. The basswood looked a little shabby so I put it back and decided to cut a boxwood strip to size.

 

I have seen the wood belay pins at several sites. Thank you for the warning about size. I will measure twice.

 

I will check out your build. We can all learn from each other.

[mikiek]

Lots of little things going on now and I imagine that's the way it's going to be for a while. Getting the deck fitted out with items from the honey do list. I did decide one thing this evening. Obviously the most bang for my builders buck would be to install the binnacle, pump, fife rails, etc.  But I think all that would get in the way of fitting all the pieces on the bulwarks. So I will do the bulwarks first starting at the waterway and working up.

 

So with that in mind I am starting tasks like eyebolts for carronades, cleats, etc.  There's more stuff fastened to the bulwarks then you first realize. I even had pinrails ready to install but decided to get everything underneath them done first. Pics will be somewhat boring but they are a record for me down the road.

 

I did finally glue the chock rails. They have been lying around forever. Since my handrails were a little crooked (see earlier post) the chock rails didn't lay very well at first. It took some reshaping to get the flush

 

 

Also, the tail end of the deck did not seat flush against the planks on top of the transom (don't know the proper term) so I pulled out the Byrnes and shaved a strip and used that to cover the gap.

 

 

 

 

Some odds and ends

 

 

Eyebolt holes

 

[6ohiocav]

Looking great Mike.

 

Did you free hand the eyebolt holes for the carronades or did you use a jig. I also like your idea on the order of installation of the deck furniture.  I hope you don't mind if I follow along to see how that works out.  I am a bit behind you and have been hesitant to install all of the parts I have made to the hull and deck until I figure out the best order of things.  From the bottom up sounds like a winner.  Good luck.

[mikiek]

Darrell - I started with a jig for the holes - just a small sheet with 4 holes drilled from the plan specs. The idea was to set the sheet edge on the waterway, line up a port midway point and then drill thru the holes into the bulwark. I quickly found several problems:

 

1. The hole in the waterway inside the ports (where you are supposed to pin the carronade) were not always well centered

2. The waterway has some slope in it from bow to stern so my template wasn't always square with the port edges.

 

In the end, I used the template to drill the top 2 holes after I had centered them by eye. That gave me a uniform spacing at each port. The bottom holes I did by eye.

 

I hindsight a template would be best as it holds the drill bit right where it needs to be. I got burned a few times on the lower holes (where I drilled freehand) becuase the bit wandered a little as it was first cutting the wood. That acrylic paint is harder than you think.

 

Drilling was a little difficult because the pin vise barely fit between the bulwarks. That puts your vise and hands in an awkward position to drill. I broke 2 bits in the process.

 

Coming up pretty soon is drilling the holes for the hawse pipes. That's supposed to be a 1/8" hole drilled at a slight angle thru inner and outer bulwark. Trying to figure out how to hold the hull and drill and then get the bit to come out on the back side right where I want it.

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

They say that two heads are better than one, and I can say that every thing you listed in your last post had been on my mind for weeks.

 

About half of my pin holes on the planksheer are out of whack for the carronades.  That is a pretty common occurence noted by fellow Niagara builders. At one time I was going to fix that before I put the top rail on the bulwarks, but opted to wait until i actually built the guns.  That will have to be fixed.

 

I had an idea for a jig for the bulkhead holes, and will work on it over the weekend to see if it works.  I was going to make my own eyebolts by twisting up some 24 gauge black wire.  I think they seat better with some CA.

 

I also figured that I would rig the carronades before I added any of the deck furniture so that I could spare as much room for my thumbs as possible.  On that topic, I am not to thrilled with the blocks that the kit supplied for this process.  They seem out of scale (too large). I was thinking about acquiring some after market blocks for this purpose, and settled on 3MM.  Do you have any thoughts on that?  Also, have you decided what pins to use for the guns, and how are you planning on securing them to the deck.  I have some small steel pins supplied with the kit, but don't exactly know what they are for.

 

That Hawse pipe is scarry for the very reason you listed.  I have had the same concerns. I thought I would start on the outside hull and hope that the hole hits the right spot inside. Of course we have to add a piece of strip wood on the outside of the hull.  I am at my office and don't have my plans and i cant remember what it is called, but in shipwright lingo, it is used to keep the anchor chain from destroying the planks when it is raised.  That might give us some leeway if we drill from the inside out.  We could cover up any mistakes on the outside when we install that piece.

 

Darrell

[mikiek]

The pinholes are off by a little but not that much. I think for the carronade they are probably fine. However they were throwing off my template for the eyebolt holes. Even that might not have been too noticeable except that my trim around the ports (those 1/32" square strips) is painted red. Using the template some of the holes were going into the part of the bulwark painted green and some into the trim painted red so it showed up. Had everything been green I don't think it would have been noticeable.

 

Regarding pins for the carronade, I was going to use belaying pins but I'm not set on that notion. While weeding thru the kit pins I noticed mine have 2 sizes. 20 of them are a tad longer and about twice as thick. 20 pins - 20 holes    The materials list doesn't seem to differentiate it just says Belaying - 120.  BTW I have wood belay pins replacements on order, but someone suggested painting the brass pins a wood color. I've tried that and they are not too bad. The wood pins would probably look better but several have commented that they break easily. I'm thinking under large coils of rope neither will be visible very much.

 

As far as eyebolts, I had planned to use the ones in the kit, however after rigging a few of the mast yards I'm pretty sure there are not enough left. Each carronade requires 7 eybolts x 18 guns. I assume the 2 long guns will need some as well. Making eyebolts would be an option although not one I would relish. I have that decision to make pretty soon. I don't want half of one type and half of another.

 

I have replaced all my blocks and deadeyes with those from Syren Models. Chuck's products are first rate. I also replaced the kit ropes with Chucks rope. Chuck also offers some laser etched hooks which really should be used with the carronade rigging.  All are a worthwhile upgrade to consider..

 

I am considering doing the carronades pretty soon. I just wanted to get any other small pieces - cleats, eyebolts, etc - installed on the bulwarks. I think access will be quite limited after the carronades are installed. That is one nice thing about using those hooks I mentioned. Those are on the end of all the rigging that goes to the eyebolts. That should make the carronades removable.

 

A goal for this weekend is to make a false deck with bulwark, port cutout, eyebolts and the like - a carronade station. All rigging will be done there.

[mikiek]

In prep for carronade rigging I made a separate "station" with eyebolts and rings in the proper places. I was planning 7 eyebolts per gun but I am seeing several logs that did only 5 or 4. The 7 I was seeing are - 1 in deck behind; 1 in plankshear on each side (2); 2 on each side at port edge (4).  When people go with 5 they eliminate 1 on each side of port and those that do 4 drop the eyebolt behind.

 

Some of the builds with 7 look kinda busy so I imagine the thought was to reduce some of that. Some of those with 7 look to have used some awfully big rope & blocks. I think it may take a bit of work to figure out the right combination - rope size, rope color, block size, block type (a few used doubles), hooks.

 

At least now I have a place to play with it all with no worries about beating up the hull:

 

 

 

 

Still have a lot of guns to make too.

 

 

[Elijah]

That jig is a great idea! Will you be practicing gun rigging on it?

[mikiek]

Elijah - I would say Yes.  As a matter of fact here is my first tackle (ever). I think size and color may work.

 

Rope = .008 light brown

Block = 3/32" single

Hook = 3mm

 

You guys be honest, tell me what you see. Too big? Too small? Just right?

 

 

 

Darn camera will not get close enough.....

[mikiek]

Well, first decision to make. The laser etched hooks are rather weak. I had the tackle hooked up as in the previous pix, gave the loose end of the rope a pull to tighten and the hook gave way and broke. This is my first experience with anything laser etched so I don't know if this would be a common thing.

 

It is a concern, not just for the carronades but for use in general rigging. If I can't pull a rope tight without breaking a hook they don't help no matter how good they look.

 

I know I can strop a block with wire and make a hook with the end but with a 3/32" block the wire would have to be so thin I doubt the hook would hold up any better.

 

I'm wondering if there is anything that can be done to strengthen the laser etched parts?

 

HELP!!!!

[6ohiocav]

Mike

 

I just posted some photos of the jig I made for the carronade eyebolts. I use my diamond head dremel bit for the holes. It knocked them out quick. Don't know if it will help.

 

You actually rigged your first carronade! Outstanding work. I am all eyes (or should I say eyebolts - I have about 30 done, only 120 left) since I too have never done this. Forgive me if I learn from your toils. let me know what you come up with for the hooks. They look great.

 

Happy building.

 

Darrell

[mikiek]

Hey Darrell - actually it was just one tackle. If I go the 7 eyebolt route there will be 5 tackles per gun. I will try that first. However if you check some of the other Niagara logs (probably other 1:64 scale builds as well) there ends up being a lot of "stuff" at each gun. IMO in some cases it is a distraction. I'm hoping the small scale of parts I am using will keep the clutter down. Got to get a system for those tackles. That one took almost 30 minutes. Those tiny blocks don't thread well, even with the skinniest rope. Tried beeswax and dipping the end in CA - it still took a lot of attempts. Lots of loud vocals last nite.

 

Will check your log for the bolt holes. I only drilled the port side the other nite.

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

The proportion on your gun is perfect to me. In post number 318, I assume you are listing exactly what you used, and that the rope you refer to you got from Chuck. I am going to do the same thing. It looks really good, and I love the hooks.  My kit supplied blocks that I experimented with with a stropped home made hook looks pretty lousy. I used a black 24 gauge wire.  I believe it will be strong enough to handle the rope pulls, but they don't look that great.  the only good thing is that they are so small, they are hard to see, but of course that makes them really hard to make. I hope you solve your hook issue.

 

I share your pain, or soon will be, over what is going to be an incredibly tedious job X 20.

[mikiek]

Darrell - all the parts came from Chuck - the rope, blocks and hooks. You can't go wrong with his products.

 

I think I have come up with a way to strop the hooks to those blocks, a few more repetitions and I'll post something.

 

I'm going to pull out the serving machine today and see if it's possible to seize the brown rope to the blocks. The one I did was glued and if you look close you can see it doesn't extend out from the block center (like it would if it was seized) it comes out from one side which makes the first loop to the other block look crooked.

Anyways, I stroped several blocks and will now string them up.

[Don Quixote]

Just catching up mike. I'm impressed. I didn't even dare try to mount the coronades properly. I KNOW I'd never be able to do it! Of course I didn't think of doing a fake bullwark like that.

 

Looking GREAT!

Edited June 11, 2016 by JustBlowinInTheWind

[mikiek]

Thanks Brian - I'm kicking and paddling as hard as I can and my head is barely out of the water. At some point I will have to decide how far I want to go with the guns, but I figured I would go all out on a sample and then decide if I want to cut anything out. I think doing everything is possible, but I am really concerned about hitting that fine line called "too much".

 

Having the gun station has proved to be a good move. It has helped me see a few things that may require some adjustments on eyebolt placement. It's a great place to practice and try things.

 

More to come...

[Don Quixote]

The Line. I stay well away from it for now. At least on this first build.

 

Already got a few in waiting and I figure to, very slowly, push the line. Or in my case I think the word "limit" might be more accurate.

:im Not Worthy:

Edited June 12, 2016 by JustBlowinInTheWind

[mikiek]

They said "it's all gravy" after the first one....

[mikiek]

Maybe a slight deviation in plans. I am considering a change in the eyebolt pattern for carronades. The new idea goes something like this:

 

 

 

I swapped out  the upper eyebolt/ring with a bar to catch the breech line. This deviates from the plans but I have seen this on several builds. It makes sense. Why would you seize the breech line to a ring? It would make it tougher to unfasten if needed. With the bar, the seized loop at the end of the breech line just drops over the bar - much simpler. Of course now I am redesigning a ship that sailed 200 years ago    The bars will need a little dressing up, but I think the concept is good.

 

I've also moved the lower eyebolt out some. When the upper eyebolts were over the lower, I noticed that there is a big mess with the tackle and the breech line. They were both taking the same path to the bulwark and easily get tangled. Now they can both go their own way. Much cleaner. Here's a look:

 

 

 

 

Since I've already drilled the holes in the real bulwark (at least on port) I'll have to go back and fill/paint the lower hole and move them out. That stinks but I like the result.

 

I'm hoping to get a few more tackles in this evening.

[jbshan]

Sorry, Mike, put the ringbolt back in for the breeching.  You can put the real ringbolt in the hole, hook everything up on your mock up and transfer to the hull when you're ready.  This is one place they didn't want to come apart.  If the need arose, a few swipes with the knife everybody carried would release the seizings, and it was easy to replace them when needed.  Bottom of sheet 4, right of center has the carronade set up.  Note also the extra pair of train tackles, used for aiming the slide.  There is also a pair of tackle for bringing the weapon back into battery after loading.

[jbshan]

Although . . .

Here are a couple of shots of Constitution, one of the 24 pdr long gun and one of the 32 pdr carronade.  Note the breeching ropes are in a sort of pin arrangement.  I don't know where they found this but you could use it for a prototype.  Note the two tackles per side on the carronade.  Making these will double the number of tackles you need (I know), but the weapon will not function properly without.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by jbshan