Planking for Ships Boats

[mikiek]

I can't find anywhere in the MS Niagara plans that tells me the size of stick to use for planking the 3 ships boats - 1:64. The 2 cutters are Carvel planked. The yawl is lapstraked. I'm wondering if I am supposed to use the same size planking for all three or if the lapstrake requires a wider plank.

 

Given the nature of lapstrake, I assume one must start at the keel and work up? From what I can see it is going to require shaping of every plank to get a decent fit.   Also, I suppose the planks stop at the transom? Do you just cut a clean edge flush with the transom?

[GLakie]

The best way to get help and encouragement would be to post a build-log so all of us can take a look and chime in with answers Mike. Also there are topics found on the main page that may answer many questions you might have. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/14-building-framing-planking-and-plating-a-ships-hull-and-deck/

[mikiek]

Hey George - I have had a build log for about 2 months and get almost zero responses there. The few I do get say to go to the specific forums for specific questions.

 

Frankly, given the activity I see in the Build Log forum, I have been surprised and a little disappointed at the lack of response to my log. Maybe everyone is tired of Niagara builds. But I digress. At any rate, I get more responses here.

[GLakie]

A lot, if not most, guys here look for a link in your signature for a build log Mike. Until you mentioned it and added the link, I didn't know myself.  Anyway, with the Niagara, the plans for the ship's boats should be 1 : 1 scale, so you can take measurements directly off the plans for the width of the planks. The thickness should be indicated there someplace as well. probably 1/32" thick.  What you could do is go over the "Kit-Build Logs" and find a few guys there that have built them and ask them if you're not sure about a certain step. 

[Jaager]

Although it is 1805, Steel has a Table of Particulars for seven types of ship's boats.  These dimensions were probably used directly or as a foundation to work from for a long time after - just as they were probably the result of at least a century of prior experience.

 

They are reproduced in

Scantlings of Royal Navy Ships - Yedlinsky,A. - Sea Watch Books.

The Boats of Men-of-War - May,W.E. - Naval Institute Press

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Mike you do have a Post Script on your profile which appears at the bottom of your post and it DOES say "

Current Builds:

        US Brig Niagara - Model Shipways - First Build"

But it is NOT a hot link. Meaning, when you click on it, it does NOT take the reader to your build log. It is likely you did not follow the instructions properly on "adding a build log" and you should go back and re do it.AND THEN TEST IT YOURSELF to make sure it works.  As mentioned above, having a build log linked to everything you post is the best way to drive traffic to your build logs.

Go here and follow the instructions precisely:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/760-how-to-add-a-build-log-link-to-your-signature/

Edited December 14, 2015 by JerseyCity Frankie

[JerseyCity Frankie]

As to the question of plank thickness on ships boats I have a strong opinion that most modelers make their planks way too thick and out of scale, and this results in boats that look too chunky and toy-like. The problem is that to achieve an accurate thickness the wood has to be ridiculously thin, a thickness that makes the wood as fragile as could be, a thickness that is impossible in some species of wood.

So I always use paper. At scales under 1/48 even the paper is too thick, but its much closer to actual scale thickness than any wood.

Purists will tell you that there is no place for paper ( or anything other than brass, apparently) on a wood ship model but I take the point of view that the Ends Justify the Means in the world of art, and I will use any material that gives me the result that I am after. Using wood because "that is what you are supposed to use"  prevents achieving a realistic result in some circumstances and I am quick to discard the use of wood when it comes to realism.

[mikiek]

Frankie - good points in both of your replies. I believe my sig now has a link to the log. Will find out when I post this.

 

I have already resigned myself to the fact that I will be using non-wood materials for the ships boats. For the inner frames, I cannot get a plank to bend enough to fit snuggly so I am going to try styrene.  For your suggestion on paper - what type do you suggest?

[jbshan]

The frames inside your boats should be about 1/32" X 1/32".  Take a much longer length than needed to go all the way around the bottom and come up the other side (maybe a couple of inches each side) and wrap it in a wet paper towel then put that in the microwave.  While it is hot, form it around your finger or other suitable round shape (pill bottle maybe) until it will go in.  Let it cool and dry before trying to glue it in.

Carvel plank boats at this scale would be merely smooth.  Clinker would show, but do you really want to beat yourself up trying that?  It is just as likely they would be done carvel as well.  When doing my Niagara boats I was advised you should be able to see a light through the hull, all over evenly.

Planks for the hull would be in the neighborhood of 1/64", so thickish paper might work if you have the carved hull to work with as a base.

 

When done, your boats should remind you of a hollow egg.

Edited December 14, 2015 by jbshan

[grsjax]

A good reference for planking boats is Howard Chapelle's "Boat Building".  It doesn't cover historical ships boats but the techniques for carvel and lap planking didn't change much between the war of 1812 and the time Chapelle wrote his book.  There are other books out there that cover the subject as well.

[mikiek]

jbshan - I'll give the 1/32 squares a try.

 

A general question - laying a bent frame piece just about worked in the center of the yawl - the bottom was fairly flat there. However, the bottom fore and aft has a pretty sharp angle. I don't think bending would work. Maybe 2 pieces, one for each side and glued at the bottom (keel)?

 

I do need to remember I will be trying to add a few flooring strips, which would partially cover most of the the frame pieces Am I getting to complicated?

 

As far as planking, I am in agreement. Clinker would look nice but at that size would be tough to install. Oddly, the other 2 ships boats do have Carvel planking.

[jbshan]

Yes, toward the ends you will need two-piece frames, as was done in the original.

The foot boards are totally correct.  They run lengthwise.

While some types of boats are traditionally clinker, they could easily have been done carvel also, especially if done by Navy personnel.  This was considered easier to repair 'in the field' and more in keeping with the carvel that was used everywhere else.  Later, with the steam ships you would be more likely to find clinker built, perhaps a bit of the carpenters showing off.

[mikiek]

Clinker it will be!