US Brig Niagara by 6ohiocav - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64

[jbshan]

Detail on sheet 3, lower right.  The tail wants to be against the inner bulwark planking.  The outer part should angle up and out.  Make your notch to allow the full width of the cathead to sit on the rail.  The small knee should help you determine the angles.

[mikiek]

Joel - what I am missing from the plans is a view from the bow looking aft. When I hold the tail to the inner bulwark, the other end sticks up at maybe a 30-40 degree angle. I got more confused then as several pix from build logs seem to show the outer part almost horizontal. If I let the upper piece lay horizontal then of course the tail does not touch the inner bulwark. It almost seems like the elbow of the cathead needs to be closer to a 90 degree angle - or those other pix are wrong.

 

As far as the knee goes, it appears it should get some filing to get around the outer rail and to sit flush against the underside of the cathead. The instructions/plans don't say anything about doing that.

[mikiek]

Since it looks like I may have a number of questions reagarding the catheads I am moving this discussion over to my build log. Sorry Darrell, didn't mean to get your log off track.

[jbshan]

Mike, I replied on your log page.

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

Just had a look at your inquiry.  Been waiting for my blocks and ropes from Syren and working on my son's graduation party so I have been away for a while.

 

I made exact copies of the laser cut catheads, using the cut outs to trace a pattern on some cherry and cut them on the bandsaw. I understand your frustration on the fit.  I had to make some adjustments as well, but perhaps not as much as you have described. I cut the notch on the chock rail, and had to file some material away from the inside vertical stem of the cathead so that if fit snuggly against the bulwark. I also had to do some surgery on the inside of the cap rail.

 

I have not glued the catheads to the hull.  I will take some photos tomorrow of what I filed away to get mine to fit.

 

I just spent 4 hours stropping a whopping 3 blocks.

[6ohiocav]

Gun Tackle

 

I received my order of 3mm single and double blocks, 3mm hooks, and some .008 rope from Syren. I placed the order on Monday and got the shipment by Friday. Great service.

 

My first reaction was shock at how incredibly small the blocks were. They are exactly 3mm.  Looking at a ruler and trying to imagine what 3mm looks like is one thing, but handling something that small is quite another. I am very happy with the scale of the blocks when compared to the guns.  What a challenge this is going to be. I only have to strop about 170 of these buggers.

 

So I started experimenting.  I have my own block and tackle that we use to tighten the picket lines for our horses, and I wanted to replcate my set.  I wanted to attach the tackle rope by seizing a loop and stropping it to the block. I made a small jig much like what i have seen on this site with the ends of two straight pins to hang the block on while working on it.

 

I started with the small loop on the tackle rope. I clamped the end of the rope in my small vice and tried to rap some of the small brown thread provided in the kit. No matter how careful I was, I could not get the right size on the loop. Mostly two large.  And this was incredibly taxing. I feel like I have moved from the miniture to the sublime. It took me over an hour to make a single acceptable loop using this method.

 

So I tried something else I had seen on this site.  I decided to make some pre-made sieze collars.  I clamped a small staight pin with a flat top in the vice against a piece of scrap wood that allowed the pin head to dig in for a good grip.  I then wrapped about a half inch of siezing rope tightly onto the pin.  While holding it tight, I coated the rope with super thin CA. Once dried, I pulled the tube off of the pin with a pair of nippers.  I then cut a very small piece of the tube to make a collar.  I then slipped my tackle rope through the collar and then backed the rope back through the collar to make a loop. I had to dab the end with some CA and cut it at a 45 degree angle to get it into the small hole. But it worked.  Once I created the loop, i applied a drop of yellow glue to keep the collar and loop secure.(CA discolored the rope too much).

 

With the loop and my blackened brass hooks, i inserted the teenie block into the jig and stropped it with some black rope. I used medium CA to attach one end of the rope to the side of the block. I threaded the loop and the hook, and then attached the end of the black rope to the block with more CA. I let dry and carefully cut off the remainder.

 

I spent 4 hours on this exercise and I only got three blocks done.  Only 167 left to do.

 

Here are some photos.

 

 

[mikiek]

Looks good Darrell - I tried the premade siezing as well. Mine came out too big. I'll give the straight pin a try.

 

Make sure you ream out the holes in those blocks. Voice of experience.

 

The shear quantity is daunting, it's one of those psychological walls we have to get over.

[GuntherMT]

Darrell,

 

Not sure if the method I used would be easier or even worse for you, but here is a link to my post on how I stropped the blocks for my guns - http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8085-armed-virginia-sloop-by-gunthermt-model-shipways-scale-148-complete/?p=328294

 

Edit - I never did get the pre-made seizing to work to my liking, so my method uses hand seizing, but you could adapt the method to use pre-made seizing by threading the rope through the pre-made seizing instead of hand seizing it but otherwise using the same methods, I think.

Edited July 4, 2016 by GuntherMT

[6ohiocav]

More Gun Tackles

 

I cranked out 50 stropped blocks. Had a lot of rain today so I could get after this new challenge.  About 1/4 done.

 

 

[mikiek]

Darrell - are you still using the premade seizing? If yes, how do you thread the rope thru the seizing?

[6ohiocav]

Mike.

 

I tried all kinds of methods to do this. I first tried to tie them myself.  It was difficult. Actually, Brian's method  was better than anything I tried. In the end, I went back to the pre-made seizings.

 

I make them by wrapping thread around a small straight pin and soaking with super thin CA. I then cut the tube into small sections, around 1 mm. I am using .008 Syren brown rope for my gun tackles. I freeze the end with CA and cut the end at a 45 degree angle. Threading through the seizing is a challenge. Holding the tube with the tweezers, I first thread one end. The end is like a tooth pick because of the CA.  It goes in easily.  Getting it back through is the hard part. I now switch hands and take the seizing in my fingers and use the tweezers to grip the end of the rope. The key is to insert the CA end into the tube enough to get it started.  Sometimes, you can simply thread it right through.  Most of the time, however, I found that by holding the seizing with a pinch of my thumb and forefinger, I can gently pull the long end of rope with my middle and forth fingers and at the same time, push the CA end with the tweezers. With both movements, it actually works. I then add a drop of yellow glue to the end as I pull the rope through to make a small loop. All of the blocks in the picture were done this way.

 

This is tedious, but it is clearly easier than wrapping each seizing individually - at least for me. Also, using the straight pin makes the seizings small enough to make the finished product look good.  They look better that the tied seizings I did.  It also takes at least half the time.

[mikiek]

You know I just remembered I have a serving machine gathering dust in a cabinet. Those can be used for seizing as well as serving. I'm getting tired of all my digressions but that might be worth trying. It does seizing very well, but it takes some time to get everything into position.

 

Something else to do tonite........

[6ohiocav]

Spent 4 hours on the build and only stropped 35 more blocks.  Not yet half way, and no end in sight. I can't even imagine what it would take to rig the guns for a ship of the line, proving the exigency of dummy guns below deck.

 

If and when I ever finish this daunting task, I will have to finally get around to gluing my deck to the hull.  I have been avoiding that for no reason other than fear that I have somehow missed something. Then it will be time to mount the carronades and start rigging.

 

​Question for the Forum

 

​What is the best way to secure the carronades (and my 2 - 12 pound long guns) to the deck?  The front of the sleds have a pin that bolts to the deck inside the gun port and I was planning on gluing them there. When I figure out how far the guns will be deployed, I was planning on gluing the slides to the sled. Does that sound reasonable.  Should I also glue the back wheels down? How about the long guns? Just glue the wheels down?

 

Thanks all.

[mikiek]

Haven't had to do what you are questioning yet. The first thing I am going to try is getting the 2 lateral and 1 rear breach tackle tight. That, in addition to the pin in front will go a long way to keep them from moving - at least along the plane of the deck. That assumes no more turning the hull upside down. If that isn't enough, the next thing will be a spot of glue under the carriage at the hole for the pin. Either that or epoxy on the pin before setting the carriage on it.

 

I would try to limit how many places are glued in case you have/want to move them in the future.

[GuntherMT]

I just glued my guns down with regular white glue.  I used white glue so that any excess would be very difficult to see.  The guns don't need to deal with any stress (unless you bang into them with something), so they don't need a lot of holding power. 

 

I sanded the bottom of the wheels lightly to remove the paint, then lightly scraped the points on the deck where the wheels would go, then just placed a small spot of glue on the bottom of each wheel with a toothpick and set them in place.  I've only had one come loose, when I knocked it with something or other, and the rigging held just fine, so was a simple matter to re-glue with a toothpick and a bit more glue.

[6ohiocav]

I knocked out another 75 blocks.  I ran out of my gun rigging rope (20 yards gone), and have ordered some more.  I have enough material at this time to rig 15 carronades. Before I turned in last night, I decided to finally glue the deck down and will start applying eye bolts, cleats and such, and once done, start installing the guns.

 

It has been over a month since I have actually done anything with the hull. I have a huge inventory of parts, deck furniture, masts, yards, and such just waiting to be installed.  Things should start picking up from here.

[mikiek]

Just curious Darrell - with the 'false deck' under your planking, have you adjusted for that on the bulkhead frames where you will set the deck down? I guess put another way - you have raised the deck planking by the height (thickness) of the false deck when it is set down on top of the bulkhead frames.

[jbshan]

And the corollary to Mike's post: With a thicker deck watch out for the clearance for the carronade barrels.  Put one together and check that the ports are high enough.

[6ohiocav]

It is tough to see from the picture, but the plywood base is the same thickness as what the plans call for the deck planking. I have only raised my deck by the thickness of the veneer. The cherry strips are about the width of a piece of construction paper.

 

Joel's point though is a very good one. When I started this build in 2012, there was a flurry of posts from Niagara builders warning all of us about the height of the gun ports, and that was for those building the deck pursuant to the plans. We were all advised to think about adding some length to the bulwarks and construct one of the carronades early on and make sure that they fit. I urge all Niagara builders to follow Joel's suggestion and check this measurement regardless of how you make your deck.

 

Early on, I decided to glue a 1/8th piece of stripwood to the top of my bulwarks and then cut away the scrap in between, thus extending the bulwarks by 1/8". I found one of my old pictures that shows that. With that additional height, my raised deck will allow enough clearance for the guns. I always worried that raising the bulwarks would screw something else up, but fortunately that has not happened .... YET

 

Another saving tip from this incredible forum. I would have never in a million years come up with that one. I could not do this project without all of you.

 

Of course the proof will be in the pudding when I start mounting the guns tomorrow.

[6ohiocav]

Carronade Rigging

 

I finally started rigging the guns. And as soon as I started, I ran into a problem. The kit calls for a .31 breech line, but does not supply it.  The closest is a .28 black and a .28 buff, at least according to the parts list.  When I looked at the rope provided, I can't really tell what is what. In any case, the largest buff rope looks too small to me.

 

So, I took a trip to the craft store and picked up a role of what I thought was a buff colored rope that appeared to be the proper diameter.  When I got it home, I tried it out.  I siezed a ring on one end, fished the other end through the rings and the back of the barrel, and siezed the other ring.  With rings tied on "off the ship", I twisted some .28 gage black wire around each ring and glued it into the previously drilled holes in the bulwarks.

 

I decided to have the barrels brought out "some." I then rigged the blocks.

 

As I look at the first gun, I am not sure I like the breech line.  It looks to "white." So, I decided to stop and it would appear that I will be ordering some more rope. I decide to glue down the carriages on the starboard side and rigged the blocks on those. I very much like the Syren 3mm blocks.  They look very authentic. What a difference from the square shaped ones in the kit.

 

Here are some photos. Opinions are welcome.

[mikiek]

Good call on the breech line. Could be the pic but it seems a bit fuzzy. The rope I used also has more twist.

[6ohiocav]

Your right Mike.  The picture is a little fuzzy, but the rope is as well.  It is a cotton blend. Just not adequate. Replacing that one will be somewhat of a challenge, since the eyebolts are glued in.  I will figure that one out when I get some new rope.

[GuntherMT]

Long term, I don't think you'll regret the decision to replace something that you don't think looks right, and as you've already found, it's hard to beat the rope and blocks from Syren for appearance.

 

As far as getting the glued eye-bolts out, I had to do that and by grabbing them with pliers right up against the hull and using very small twisting motions, I was able to break the glue (CA has very little strength against 'shear' motion) and remove the eye-bolts without much difficulty.

[mikiek]

A more hard core approach would be to do as was done back in the day. Cut the seizing, replace the rope, seize again.    The first 2 no problem the last one - eh.

 

Like Brian said, the eyebolt should come out without much of a fight.  Worst case cut it off at the bulwark and drill a new hole right next to it.

[6ohiocav]

Finished gluing down and rigging the port site carronade carriages.

[mikiek]

That is a great idea doing just the carriage first.  I was thinking the whole unit at once. Your method will keep the clutter down.

 

Are your ropes loose in the blocks? If yes, will you leave them that way?

 

What did you end using for the carriage pin?

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

I agree that doing the platforms first ended up being a good idea. Since I did not have the right breeching rope, it came about out of necessity as opposed to a defined plan. Building from the ground up however is always a good idea. I just would have never thought of it in the case.

 

The breeching lines are all loose, and holding nicely. It is rather quite amazing that the tackles really work as they should, albeit in micro. A real tribute to the quality of the Syren blocks.  I am totally sold.  As soon as I decide what to do about the tails (coils or faux coils), and as soon as all of the guns are mounted, I will freeze the lines and the hooks. At least that is the plan.

 

Funny you should ask about the pins.  I ended up using simple straight pins that I blackened.  At first, I decided to cut them in half, and actually use them to secure the carriages,  To do that, I had to drill the holes deeper in the planksheer.  Since the cap rail interfered, they were at a slight angle. I scratched away the paint from the bottom of the gun port, placed a dab of medium CA on the bare wood and a bit of glue on the tip of the pin and a wee bit on the bottom of both wheels on the back of the carriage, and put it in place.  Getting the pin to seat however was difficult, and I did not have a lot of time. In the end, I had to push the pin with the back of a metal punch, using way too much pressure than I was comfortable with.

 

I then decided to cut the pins shorter, and even after that, to cut them to about 1mm below the carriage, so it simply sat in the pre-drilled hole in the planksheer. The CA was enough to secure the carriages, making the pins more decorative than functional.  Even though my deck is finished in poly, the CA on the wheels has secured them sufficiently to the deck, and there is no trace of any glue. Unless my ship takes a broadside, I feel confident that the carriages will remain secure.

 

In the end, moving way down the scale to 3mm blocks and .008 tackle rope and securing the quality parts from Syren was the right choice.  Following your suggestion, along with Brian's and others to downsize on the blocks and rope for the guns was a good one.  They look very authentic, to scale, and there is plenty of room between the blocks.  The kit supplied blocks are way too large, and completely out of scale. Of course that comes at a cost. My eyes have been strained to the limit spending hours working with these incredibly small blocks.  Stropping them and threading rope through the even smaller holes is a real chore.  And I still have about 50 more to do. 

 

In the end, I am very happy with the look.  So, worth the effort.  Thanks for all of the good advice.

 

 

 

I am just waiting for the breeching line to complete this task.

[6ohiocav]

Stropping a 3mm block

 

I thought I would post a practicum on how I stropped the 3mm blocks with a 3mm hook.  Not because I am an experienced modeler - far from it - but because when you have to do something 180 times, you figure out some things. Everything I did, I learned from the masters on the site.  I combined some things and used techniques that worked for me.

 

A list first and some annotated photos.

 

1. I work on 25 at a time. I purchased my blocks from Syren, and the packs come in groups of 25.

 

2. Cut 25 strands of .008 black rope in about 3 inch lengths. Don't worry about how long they are because you will be reusing them. The longer the easier they will be to handle.

 

3. Place a drop of super thin CA on a plastic top and role one side of the rope (about 5mm) to freeze the end.  You are going to use this end to thread through the hook. Do all 25 at the same time.  It saves on your glue.

 

4. Place your block in a jig.  I use the ends of two small pins embedded in a block of hardwood.

 

5. Place a drop of medium CA on your plastic and role the tip (about 1mm) of the other end of your rope in the glue, making sure you don't pick up too much.

 

6.Apply the glued end in the groove of the block placing it half up the bottom end of the block. Tap it lightly with an exacto blade enough to seat it. It will only take a second or two for the glue to hold the end in place then let go and let it hang.

 

7. After a few more seconds, press a metal flat surface against the glued end to push it more into the groove.  I use the butt end of my exacto knife.

 

8. I then immediately pinch the rope against the bottom of the block.  If you don't, some of the glue may straighten out the rope and make it harder to wrap it around the block later on when it fully dries.

 

9. I then remove the block from the jig to let dry.  I do this 25 times.

 

10. I then reinsert the block with the rope tail hanging straight down back into the jig.

 

11. I pull the rope around the back and up the block holding it in my right hand and with the tweezers in my left, thread the frozen rope through a hook.

 

12. I then pull the rope tight positioning the hook to the top of the block with the tweezers.

 

13. I then lift up the rope slightly and apply a drop of medium CS with a push pin.

 

14. I pull the rope down into the groove while repositioning the hook in the proper position. I then squeeze the rope in the groove with the tweezers.

 

15. After at least 15 seconds of drying, I then firmly press the sharp edge of a new exacto knife blade (this has to be very sharp) against the union position on the block and pull the rope straight up against the knife and cut off the end.  If the blade is sharp enough, just raising the rope against the blade will cut it.

 

16. keep the cut ends.  You are going to reuse them for the next 25 and the next 25 and the... you get the picture.

 

16. Then do this another 179 more times.

 

Here are some photos.

 

 

[mikiek]

Thanks Darrell - for your CA puddle, try squirting on wax paper. It's good for a 20-30 minutes there.

 

I was able to get back into it last nite - at least better. I am making half the blocks with only a hook and the other half with a hook on one end and a seized rope (to reave thru another block) on the other.  So it looks like the block that hooks to the bulwark should be the one with the rope coming off and the rope reaves thru the block hooked to the gun and back up to the bulwark block.

 

When in your process did you seize the rope to the block?

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

It looks like you are using single blocks on both ends.  I am using single and doubles. I seize the looped rigging rope to my single blocks when I strop the hook (see the photos on post 99). The photos just above are from the double blocks that don't get the rigging rope.

 

I start my rigging by attaching the single block to the gun, then run the rigging rope to the double block hooked to the bulwark, then back to the sheave hole in the single block, then back to the double, then loose to be coiled.

 

I ran out of rigging rope after making 50 looped strands.  I am waiting on a new supply from Syren.

 

With this process, I am getting 25 blocks done in just over an hour.  However, the most important advice I can give is that after I work my way through a set of 25 blocks, I take a break and strop my favorite cold one and rest my eyes and brain. I finally see some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

One consolation - the end products are really neat looking. Syren makes an incredibly great product, and since I understand that they are each made by hand, who am I to complain how hard they are to strop.