US Brig Syren by hervie - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64

[ca.shipwright]

Hervie

I know what you mean about the iPhone camera. I jumped onto eBay and found a Nikon P520 that was near new for about half price. Now I can get some detail in my pictures. Although, I am not sure I want to share that level of details given my skill level.

 

Keep up the great work.

 

Regards

[hervie]

dgbot, thanks for the tip.  That's a way I would feel comfortable with, but it would not work in this case because of the rabbet around the gun ports.

 

ca.shipwright, glad you got a good camera.  Read the manual and experiment.  And forget about 'skill levels'.  We learn from all skill levels.  You should see the pile of dead wood I've been creating lately  .    Scott Adams, the creator of the Dilbert cartoon strip says it well:  "we learn from failing, not from succeeding".

Edited August 26, 2016 by hervie

[hervie]

Tree nails on a painted surface.

 

Big decision time.  To paint the exterior planking yellow ochre or not.

 

I was going to use stain but couldn’t get good results on test strips.  Then I saw the Syren build of MD11pilot (page 3, post #51),  and the Niagara build of 6ohiocav (page 1, post #1), and wow!  Forget about staining!

 

But painting is more involved than staining IMHO.  What worries me are future implications in view of the outer hull details yet to be addressed.  I’ll have to break my rule of not using glue on top of paint.  

 

But man I like the painting effect!

 

So I’m proceeding with it.  If someone thinks it’s a mistake, now is a good time to raise the alarm …

 

Meanwhile the first implication is that I’ll have to paint the planks before installing.  Just the first coat to take care of the edge around the gun ports.  

 

The entire paint job takes three coats, with very fine sanding in between.

 

That leaves the tree nails to figure out.  Here is what I came up with:

 

First, the tools (not shown are zillions of toothpicks): 

 

 

The paint used is Golden Acrylic Yellow Ochre

 

Two coats of paint were applied, sanding with 320 grit film in between coats.  Plus emphasizing the space between planks with the pointy tool shown above.

 

That same tool is used to create a hole for the tree nail.  Tapping gently with the hammer.

 

 

Then the drill with a #60 bit is used.  (The tree nails shown are no good, they were practice nails)

 

 

A tooth pick was inserted and clipped at the base.  No glue was used.

 

 

Then the remnant was hammered in.

 

 

Here is the result before the final paint coat:

 

 

And here it is after.

 

 

I took this photo with the light shinning almost parallel with the planks.  This emphasizes the 3-D aspect of the tree nails, which really is much more subtle than what is shown.

 

One immediate observation is that the tree nails should be smaller.  Obviously I need more practice, but that’s the plan anyway.

 

What do you think? … 

Edited August 28, 2016 by hervie

[EJ_L]

I have seen several discussions on tree nails on here and I have begun to lean to the side of are they really worth it at the correct scale? To make the tree nails of the appropriate size for the scale of the ships, unless you are modeling in 1:48 or larger, the nails would be so small that they would barely be seen. This brings up the question of is it worth spending the time to model something that would not be seen or do you enlarge the nails but then have out of scale nails covering the model and putting thousands of oversized dots on the ship?

 

Personally I have gone back and forth and even in my current build I modeled the ones on the decks but not the hull. After looking at it and looking at other ships and reading the debates about it I now lean towards not modeling them on any ship that the scale is too small to easily show them. A good point was made of why ruin a model that you will spend lots of hours and effort into making sure everything is built correctly with oversized dots covering the decks and hull? We all know the nails would be there and the focus should be on the rest of the model.

[hervie]

EJ_L,  thanks for your timely advise.  

 

I’m more into overall looks than scale accuracy.  For example, the kits supplied quarter badges are horrible, so unless I can come up with a good replacement I will skip them all together.  Nobody here will know they are missing.

 

I don’t think the tree nails on a painted hull will be noticed or missed either, so your advise puts the nails on the coffin (pun intended )

 

Any advise on painting pitfalls lurking down the road?

[ca.shipwright]

Hervie,

I'm like you. I do the best I can with the hope that the finished model is a pleasing to the eye, well made with crisp lines. If I learn new skills, more the better. It still amazes me that the only thing a visitor sees, and, the first he mentions when he looks at one of my models is the rigging.

 

For painting:

A good set of brushes. Several thin coats rather than one thick coat. Sometimes I thin the paint to the consistency of a color wash. Water based acrylics clean up with soap and water; no need for solvents. Prime the hull when you finish planking. It will help show any defects which can be fixed with filler.

 

For inexpensive paints, I go to Lowe's paint department and get the color I want in a sample with acrylic flat base. Pick any color they have on the chips in the store. Costs about $4.00 and you'll have enough to paint the rest of you models forever. I have tried air brushing and the effort was not worth it.

 

Hope this helps

 

Regards

Edited August 28, 2016 by ca.shipwright

[hervie]

ca.shipwright, thanks for the tips.  I've worked with several types of paints - oils, acrylic, water colors and gouache -- but on paintings, not on models.  On models I've only used Testor's lacquer paints.

 

Your source for acrylic paints is pretty clever  .  I would not have thought of it and have to try it.

 

I have a couple posts on this log using artist quality acrylic paints.  I went to the hobby shop and got one tiny bottle of Model Master's acrilic paint for $4 to compare.  Not cheap!  Your source is much cheaper.  I'll compare the paint with the others for handling, coverage, etc.

 

Thanks again.

Edited August 29, 2016 by hervie

[ca.shipwright]

Hervie,

 

From what I remember from my plastic model days, lacquer is solvent based. That always made a mess to clean up. Also it gave a high gloss finish like on automobiles.

 

This type of finish really doesn't look good on wooden ship models.   On wooden ship models, most folks strive for a dead flat finish. At most I will finish with a coat of satin Wipe on Poly which will give the finish some luster but not gloss.

 

Hope this helps

 

Regards

[hervie]

Paint is not the main subject of this log.  So I apologize for one more paint post.  However the subject of using house paint for models came up, so I’d like to  put it to rest.

 

First of all, acrylic house paint is not formulated the same as model paint.  House paint is formulated for … well … houses   

 

Nevertheless I trotted to the Benjamin Moore paint store and for $2.5 each I got the two acrylic samples shown below.  (If these were model paints, each sample would cost about $450)

 

 

The base for these samples is called ‘latex’.  But there is no latex in ‘latex’ paints.  There is mainly acrylic resins and vinyl.  Here is a link that talks about this.

 

http://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/4669/whats-the-practical-difference-between-latex-and-acrylic-water-dispersion-p

 

I liked the coverage and handling characteristics of these paint samples.  Surprisingly, they were easier to apply consistently than the Golden Acrylic paints.  And very easy to match colors too.

 

But how durable are they?  I doubt house paints are designed to last for as many years as acrylic artist paints.

 

If you google “latex paint in models” you’ll get some interesting links for airplane modelers.   Pretty good opinions too.  For for wood model ships? 

 

Nada.

 

So the jury is still out, and I haven’t made up my mind as to whether to use these samples or not.  What I do know is that I need to get going with planking! 

Edited August 30, 2016 by hervie

[hervie]

The third plank

 

The third plank is a potential project killer for me.  Here is where the rabbet around the gun ports has to be cut by hand.

 

First, after pre painting with just one coat,  I attached the first plank on the port side and did the faux plank butts.  Just a shallow cut every four bulkheads.

 

 

(Incidentally, I chose the Benjamin Moore acrylic house paint.  They work great!)

 

 

Then I attached the second pre-notched plank, as described in a previous post.

 

 

This is the same method used by Sal (_SalD_) which, in my opinion, is the best if you can cut the planks by hand with a #11 blade like he did.

 

I simply can’t.

 

 

So I experimented with Dirk’s (DubZ) method of cutting using a chisel.  And it all went well ... for a while…

 

I assembled the tools for this task …

 

 

And tried my real life first cut.

 

 

Success!

 

 

But then DISASTER!

 

When cutting another gun port, the entire port frame, lintels and all, decided to part company with the ship.

 

I was so shell shocked that I forgot to take a picture.  It wasn’t pretty!

 

So I decided to do each plank in pieces between gun ports.

 

Here is the beginning.

 

 

(Although the pieces are short, the plank needs be pre-bent to follow the contour of the hull.  Each successive piece is then cut from the same plank beginning at the bow).

 

Next, a method to produce the 'notches' for the rabbet around the sweeps.

 

 

 

 

 

[EJ_L]

That is how I typically plank around the gun ports. I will cut them a little long and then continue to slowly file them back so they are even with the run below and install. Then repeat the process between the next opening. It is tedious but gets it done without damaging the framing.

 

Looking good. Planking is one of those highly monotonous stages that feels like it takes forever. You are doing a very nice job and your efforts are going to pay off with a great looking hull.

[ca.shipwright]

Hervie,

The frustrations you are feeling is something we all feel. The notched plank is one of the hardest things to accomplish well in building a gunboat.

 

The method I use is not that different from EJ's. I take a number eleven blade, and, with the plank standing edge, push the blade to a depth that will get the notch to where you want it on both sides. Then I pare the plank back to the notch starting about 1/4 of the way across the opening. Do this on both sides. If you have to have a deeper notch repeat this process. Then take a sanding stick the width of the opening and smooth the cutout section.

 

Since you are simulating the plank butts, I would do real butts on this plank so if you make a mistake in cutting, you only trash a short piece. Do the same on the top plank as well.

 

There will be no butts between the gun ports since they all end on a frame. On the flats, where there is no bending involved, glue all of that sections  planks together off the model and then trim to final length at both ends. This will give you the smoothest set against the gun port opening.

 

I hope all this helps

 

Regards

Edited September 8, 2016 by ca.shipwright

[hervie]

EJ_L, ca.shipwright, thanks for the encouragement.  And for the advice.  It comes at the right time since I'm beginning to doubt my ability to finish this ship, let alone the hull. .  What bothers me is not how long Planking takes, but that I'm doing a lousy job.

 

We'll see how the job ends after I have a chance to mask the errors with files, wood filler and paint.  If I cannot make the rabbet edges straight, I may just tear the whole thing -- with great satisfaction! -- and start all over again.

 

My next post illustrates the method for cutting the rabbet edges I settled on.  Looks similar to what you guys do.

 

Thanks again.

Edited September 8, 2016 by hervie

[EJ_L]

Your doing a fine job. Once you find the method that works best for you the rest speeds up. I tell people all the time when they ask me how long something takes that the first run of anything is a lot of trial, many errors and finally success. The second run is making sure the success of the first was not a fluke. After that, things pick up. 

 

Of course, once you have finished the planking then you start all over with the next component...

[hervie]

Cutting the rabbet around the sweeps

 

I hesitate in posting these pictures because the result is still not good.  But the method is.  So here it is:

 

1) Cut a piece of plank longer than required, and mark the area to be notched for the sweep.

 

 

2)  using a #11 blade, pierce straight down both ends of the notch.  Make sure the blade tip goes though the entire plank.

 

 

3)  Turn over the plank and repeat the above step using the previous cut location as guide.  (That’s why it’s important to pierce the entire plank in step 2)

 

4)  finish cutting the notch edges.  It should be easy now.

 

5) with a chisel or a #11 blade cut the upper edge.

 

 

6) clean up with files.

 

 

7) mark the ‘real’ plank segment length

 

 

8) trim and install

 

 

Still rough, but I guess with practice it will get better.

 

There definitely will be a good and bad side to this ship.  Unfortunately I started on the port side which it is my favorite side for display.

 

[ca.shipwright]

Hervie,

I think you've got it. We all have good sides and better sides- not to worry. The small defects that you know are there are not going to be very noticeable when the ship is complete. Many of them will be under or visually blocked by something added later on in the build. Keep the faith you're doing great.

 

Regards

[hervie]

Continuing with planking …

 

At this point I have the port side completed to the 7th strake (not shown), and starting on the starboard side.  Compared with the other side I noticed right away there is a difference in how the ports and sweeps align with the 2nd strake.  Not a good omen, but I chose to ignore it for the time being — big mistake!.

 

I stopped using the table saw to cut the plank segments and am now using a plain cutter.

 

 

When the 5th strake was reached I used the pen sander to straighten the sides of the gun ports.  It worked well.

 

 

Then I temporarily attached the 6th strake to mark the upper edges of the gun ports. 

 

Using the table saw method described earlier (page 3, post 56), I cut the notches for the gun ports and glued the 6th and 7th strake.

 

 

Then, finally, I compared both sides of the bow and nearly fainted! 

 

Terrible!

 

I did the most basic error of not working on both sides at the same time, plank by plank.  And then I compounded the error by not checking both sides as I went along.

 

 

 

At this point I have three choices:

 

1) throw the ship on the ground and stomp on it.  (Tempting!)

 

2)  try to fix thing with wood filler and paint.

 

3)  deconstruct and start from scratch.

 

To be continued ...

Edited September 19, 2016 by hervie

[EJ_L]

That is unfortunate. I've had that happen and it is a tough decision on what to do about it. I don't think you would have to redo all of your planking. It looks like on your starboard side there are some gaps between the 2nd and 3rd and 3rd and 4th stakes. I think if you were to just pull the planks in that area off and close up those gaps that your alignment will be good to go.

 

Elsewhere, your planking is coming along very well. I am curious as to the two different colors of wood. Are some of them painted already? 

[hervie]

Thanks for trying to make me feel less dumb E_JL.  I know I can always count on words of encouragement from you.

 

Yes, some of the planks are painted.  I tried different painting approaches.  It is not a workable idea to prepaint all planks at this point, the paint will rub off upon sanding.  But it doesn't hurt.

 

Nevertheless before installing the wales and sheer strake (which will be prepainted black), all the other planks will be painted.  Just the first coat to produce a clear delineation between the two different colors used (ochre and black)

 

By the way, the fact that I am going to use paint instead stain allows trying approach number two above, as my next post will show.

[Gahm]

When I look at your planking the first thing I notice is that you did an excellent job planking around the gun ports. That normally is the most tedious job. At least I do not like it at all  . And if you paint the hull anyway it should not be too difficult to correct the little "discrepancy" at the bow. I am just not too much in favor of your solution #1 

 

Thomas

[EJ_L]

Paint definitely has the advantage of being able to use wood fillers and such for repairs easier than if you were going to leave it natural. Some filler here and sanding there and you should have her right back on track.

[ca.shipwright]

Hervie,

Take a look at the widths of the planks of the starboard side. They seem to vary considerably while the port side planks all appear the same width.

Having said that, you gun port planking is great. I have a Jim Byrnes table saw that I use for the same type of cuts. One of the tricks is to use a sacrificial backer board so that you do not get and rip-out on the work piece. This is critical when working with hardwoods like boxwood.

 

I took my Victory back down to the bulkheads and centerkeel one time because I was so disappointed in my planking. Remember your not alone in the I wish I had done...........

 

Regards

[hervie]

Thank you EJ_L, Thomas, ca,shipwright.

 

Yes, the rabbet around the gun ports almost became a show stopper for me.  I'm still not done with them, I have to paint the edges of the planks and touch up the red.

 

Ca.shipwright, I agree.  That was the first thing I noticed in the photo.  I took great care in selecting equal width plank, so maybe this is a photo shadow effect.

 

I'm about to post the results after using filler to correct the problem.

[hervie]

Fixing the bow, first pass

The objective is to use filler to cover the previous mistake, then draw fake planks and repaint.

Here is the rough filler in place.



Using a flexible straight edge and a pointy tool, I ‘drew’ the first plank.



More planks drawn.



End result after painting



Before it was:

 

​This is the first pass. Not sure if it is OK.

What is sure is that I no longer have a good side and a bad side. Now I have two bad sides

​It is possible that with the timber heads in place this will be acceptable. We'll see.

Edited September 20, 2016 by hervie

[EJ_L]

My good and bad sides are constantly changing as my mess ups move around.

 

You fix isn't too bad. You may look ahead some and see how much of that will be covered by the ram and bowsprit rigging. Often the stem and the first few feet of the bow are covered in a lot of rigging, anchor ropes and such that you may not even notice it later on.

[hervie]

That's pretty funny EJ_L.

 

Actually the fix looks a lot better in real life than in the photo which magnifies the scratches and bumps. So I'm moving on.

[ca.shipwright]

Good fix Hervie. As already said, when all the "stuff" is added to the very busy bow, I don't think you will be able to notice this fix.

 

Regards

[hervie]

Signs of life …

 

It’s been a while.  Progress is slow due to other things occupying my time, but chugging along nevertheless.

 

At this point I decided that is was time to glue the stern to avoid potential trouble with planking.  I would have liked to plank the stern and work on the transom before attaching the assembly, but better not.

 

As it turned out, despite careful measuring and fitting, the rear side planks did not exactly line up with the sides of the stern.  So I had to insert some shimming (?).

 

 

Then I could glue the side planks.

 

 

Now I could begin doing the wales.  I’m still trying to find a good way to hold the planks while drying.  The one shown in the picture does not work very well.

 

 

I decided at this point to switch from PVA to CA for the remaining of the planking task.

 

 

 

After gluing all seven 1/8 planks and the first layer of wales,  I turned my attention to the stern.  This is the area I anticipate trouble due to the extreme bending of the planks required.  Not quite sure how to progress yet.

 

 

One final note for this post.  I am keeping a log of the hours spent on the Syren, excluding logging.  I’m using an iPhone app called ‘Event Logger’.  It shows that I started building on June 15 and that I spent  about 140 hours total — which is the time it took to build the ENTIRE Bluenose model shown below!  

 

Of course these models are not comparable, and actually I don’t mind it if building the Syren takes a long time.  I like this ship.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by hervie

[jablackwell]

Hervie,

 

It's good to see another Syren build here on the forum. I have bookmarked them all, and have added yours to the list. Why? Some day.... I'm going to build her. Thank you for your log, great images, commentary and wisdom. Now, I will pull up a chair and watch the build!  :-)  Thanks!

 

~john

[ca.shipwright]

Hervie,

Here is a photo of my bent T-pins that are stabbed into the bulkhead to hold the plank. You can turn them so you get pressure on the plank with the bend.