SAINT PHILIPPE 1693 by Heinrich der Seefahrer - Heller - 1:92 - converted from Soleil Royale kit

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Here the incorrections in the aft decoration:

Here [1] you can see six gunports - two in and four under the transom.

[2] The original plan of the transom decor.

The very first theme is the number of aft gunbarrels. In the lower hull aft there are two gun ports on the original drawing.

On this ink of [3] TONNARANT(?) we have got two gunports,too. But they are located as the inner of a quartett and not in the way  as on the [2] transom original drawing.

[4] the Lamineur drawing of the side gallery

[5] the original drawing of the SAINT PHILIPPE side gallery - both are quite close in similarity. But both would not match with any of both transoms.

 

The balcony is right but the columns have disappeared!  From the shodow there is a balcony - the columns rest on the handrail - but not in the sideview. ( I think I will draw something to this particular problem, as it is too complex to explain by words.)

 

Lets start with the problems obviously in the drawing [1] compared to [2]...

Here we have got four turnarounds

...and here five!!! The two shells on the outside frame are more in line by Lemineur and a 1/10 to 2/10 more out of the line within the original papers.

 

The couronnament is (is looking?) not as high in the original drawing...

 

 

as Mr.Lemineur has reconstructed it with the firugres heads not meeting the upper frame. Scale both drawing to the same scaleon transparent paper with show the problems much clearer. 

 

I want to build the SAINT PHILIPPE closer to the original drawing.

 

This is only a simple pile of ideas and thoughts.

 

 

 

 

 

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

A moving of te gunports towards a shipside middle position 

as in the original drawing...

 

will bring in a huge reconstruction of the lower transoms construction as the

stern counter timbers (here from inside) N°21 {in both drawings} have to be removed. And as I have no otherchance than to build the transom from scratch this forces me into a reconstruction.

 

I have to keep this in mind.

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

My solution for the empty area beside the windows on the MD seels to be too sophisticated...

Here we have got a much more simpler problem solving. 

 

"Don't overdo it!" seems to be a saying older than my grandpa...

Edited August 18, 2019 by Heinrich der Seefahrer

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

The side gallerys window imitation... 

I found the answer in the monography on page -151- very interesting for @Hubac's Historian too I think:

 

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

I am really angry!!! 

 

Today I had some time to read in the 2018 edition of L'AURORE -

Fregate legere 1697 von Lemineur/Ancre.

 

I had suddenly the strong feeling of an d'ja-vu due to the rope sucking head.

 

Plate N°9 in the L'AURORE monography on page 90f I found it.

 

I thought "I have seen this motiv several days before in Rhenania, didn't I!?"

 

So I picked out my SAINT PHILIPPE monography on p 148f plate N°34 "Evaluation with fittings" I figured it out,

 

I discoverd the very same -not any similar -  head again! So it was the same head, same function, other ship!!!

 

So I had both taken from the details specilalside than it is absolutely obvious:

 

So is this the high level of recearch and originally reconstruction I can hope for for £220???

 

"Never trust in any plan, even the the original onces can be doubtful!"

Wolfram zu Mondfeld

[Hubac's Historian]

I hear what you’re saying here, Chris, but in all fairness even the St. Philippe project is a bit of a forensic re-construction.  In my opinion, the detail is appropriate for the time period, and I am not surprised that Lemineur is taking a bit of a boilerplate approach to the small things like this.  If there were Van de Veldes of the SP, that clearly showed the detail, I might feel differently.  As it stands, though, there is very little documentary reference to the French style of chesstrees in the latter 17th C.  Take heart - it was still money well-spent😁

Edited August 23, 2019 by Hubac's Historian

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

4 hours ago, Hubac's Historian said:

I hear what you’re saying here, Chris, but in all fairness even the St. Philippe project is a bit of a forensic re-construction.  In my opinion, the detail is appropriate for the time period, and I am not surprised that Lemineur is taking a bit of a boilerplate approach to the small things like this.  If there were Van de Veldes of the SP, that clearly showed the detail, I might feel differently.  As it stands, though, there is very little documentary reference to the French style of chesstrees in the latter 17th C.  Take heart - it was still money well-spent😁

It was so horrifying, Marc, I would have bet my month budget for books & building (not for food) this would never ever happen. Yes it is worth the spent money - but you know it is like

a dot of rost ob your Rolls-Royce cooler tempel.

 

So on the other hand I do feel free to chance a bit more here and there on these plans like the colouring - I will not paint the transom with a tassel brush all over golden and vermillion.

@Hubac's Historian

My idea to add blank wood ond little details in lapislatzuli wasn't discussed deeper - the questions were a bit going under a hiding in the text. What is your personal oppinion towards this solution? In particular the little red interruption on the on the very top over the couronnament? And the idea of keeping some areas in unpainted wood,I reference to

baroque furniture with the wood and gold effect. (If you need further intormation about

this commode with its

astinishing wooden and metal caftmanship for your state rooms interior

 

....it is at the Metropolitan museum of art / Heilbrunn Collection - the solution is closer you think.

 

https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/ffurn/hd_ffurn.htm

Edited August 23, 2019 by Heinrich der Seefahrer
Link embedded

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Can you make some pictures of the colored stand by daylight? What I see looks really nice.

 

I know, that the wrong place for a discussion, but is the basis -the old Heller kit- a good base for all the work and research you invest? Isn't it easier, if you like to work with Styrene, to do it from scratch with Evergreen-Profiles? I got this question every time I look in your buildlog in my mind.

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

3 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

Can you make some pictures of the colored stand by daylight? What I see looks really nice.

 

I know, that the wrong place for a discussion, but is the basis -the old Heller kit- a good base for all the work and research you invest? Isn't it easier, if you like to work with Styrene, to do it from scratch with Evergreen-Profiles? I got this question every time I look in your buildlog in my mind.

Oh Christian, yes I'll do when I have got enough sunlight in my model yard... 

 

The sceptical view on the hull - oh yes.

I do think the same from time to time. But on the other hand it saves a lot of work to get the hull symmetrical... 

 

I have got the four Heller hulls to work through after this I can restart the moonography to build the sister LE TONNANT 

On the other side 

LE LYS or LE SCEPTRE are of interest.

 

But Marc Hubacs Historian is right I think - we do the best to this kit we could do.

 

 But thank you really for this warm and friendly advise.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Heinrich der Seefahrer

[Hubac's Historian]

Hi Chris - funny visual with the Rolls!

 

Yes, I certainly feel that one can take a few liberties with decor and coloring, as long as they are historically plausible.

 

The use of lapis-based ultra-marine would have been sparing, at best - even on the most prestigious first-rates.  As a general rule of thumb, you can count on the backdrop to the arms of France as being ultra-marine.

 

If you wish to use ultra-marine elsewhere, I think that less is more, however, I see no reason why you couldn’t incorporate it above the tafferal carving.  As long as what you decide upon is balanced and presents some kind of logic, then I think it should be just fine.

 

On the other hand, I personally would be dis-inclined to represent areas above the waterline as “natural”, because of the French practice of using iron fasteners, as opposed to tree-nails.  An un-painted French ship would soon look like your streaky Rolls Royce, up there, with the added embarrassment of loose planking, as the iron nails corrode and lose their integrity.

 

In response to AnobiumPunctatum’s question, I think the issue of whether to aggressively kit-bash or build from scratch, depends upon a builder’s perspective, their circumstances, and their conception of a challenge worth pursuing.

 

From my perspective - while there are certainly problems with the Heller hull it is, in fact, a very close copy of Tanneron’s model; simply by raising the waterline on the Heller kit by a 1/4”, or so, helps one to arrive at something that looks much fuller and more plausible.

 

Despite its problems (many of which can be corrected or mitigated without too much trouble), though, the Heller hull has quite a lot going for it as an example of late 17th C. practice.  As Chris says, it is a tremendous benefit to have a ready-made hull form, even if one must build up the stern and quarter galleries from scratch.

 

Another thing that I personally love is the flexibility of plastic as a medium for scratch-work.  Unlike wood, it is much easier to scrap an attempt at executing some detail, if it doesn’t look right, and start anew.  Plastic is also a benefit to people like myself, who have no shop space to speak of.  I work off of my kitchen table, just as I did when I was a boy.  When I’m done for the evening, the model is stored in its purpose-made box until the next evening, or whenever I have time for it.

 

Lastly, it is tremendously rewarding, I think, to push the boundaries of what is possible in reverse-engineering this kit to represent a more specific point in her career, or another French ship, altogether.

 

When I started my Soleil Royal project, I had an idea about making the hull wider, in order to incorporate the missing sixth stern light; it was going to involve some complicated plastic surgery, and I really wasn’t sure whether I would be able to pull it off.  When I succeeded at that, it felt like a major accomplishment, and it motivated me to keep going.  So, keep going I did.

 

For some, these kinds of builds may seem like exercises in pure tedium.  For others, though, they are an opportunity for experimentation, and skill development.  For me, it’s just satisfying fun, and I really enjoy watching what other builders do with her.

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Veryyes Marc I could quote you completely and sign any paragraph by an "as with me"! (Without the luck with SAINT PHILIPPE to keep her on her Australian stand [upside down].

 

And the fact that you do not are in the need of a planer to get the thicknesses you depend on - you nust glue two smaller sizes together to what you need! :D

 

Thanks for the bare wood hint!!!

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

On 8/23/2019 at 9:07 AM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

Can you make some pictures of the colored stand by daylight? What I see looks really nice. (...)

@AnobiumPunctatum

 

Hello Christian, here the pictures you longed for -

made in bright Berlin highnoon sun light.

 

The matt clear spay doesn't work too good.

 

It is not as "deep" as I hoped to get it with the five layers of ink and the clear spray.

 

The washer in the background is not finished yet.

The washers do their job bravly

to hide the join between the plastic bars.

 

Painting project ended - now I have to drill into the washers to screw the screws in and then developing nailheads to camouflage the modern cross screw heads again.

 

 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Really nice result, Christian. I like the color of your stand

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Thanks a lot, Christian!

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Hello,

 

blowing the dust from the hull I am in reorganisation the yard and give some furth r progress to this rebuild in the next days - the pseudo-wooden pedestal will be ready end of this week (hopefully).

[Hubac's Historian]

Glad to see you back in the shipyard, Chris!

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Thanks, Marc, today's day I lived in the Copy Shop and deal with the 1/64 reductions of the plan... So the promised building of the pedestal will start tomorrow... 

 

Sorry for this. 

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Okay I worked on the big sister mostly but did not forgot my building place here. So today I bought a board of pine and some craved ropes, so both will fit unter the stand.

😁 "Call me Captain Blackboard!" 😁

Not a plenty of news but a bit of progress is still progress... 

 

So I stayed loyal to my motto also today:

"Do 1/2h of modelshipbuilding every day and you can't keep your progress away!" 

 

I have to admit I do love this contrast:

Here my strange idea of mixing blacked wood, natural wood and imitated wood becomes reality :

What is your opinion - about adding any further finish to any of the t(h)ree ingredients??? 

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Heinrich der Seefahrer

[Hubac's Historian]

I think the black board could use a surface film - even if you prefer to stay away from gloss/semi-gloss, at least matte will give it a kore finished appearance.  I do like the contrast, though.

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Thanks Mark for this helpful advice! 

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

I nailed the decor ribbon onto the boards side and set SP on her stand for a test fit and figured out how to place the stand right. 

 

I really do like this geathering of the colours in particular thinking about the white underwater hull in contrast to the black wooden board... 

The transom of ROYAL LOUIS 1667 reminds me on its motto:

"Over the eaves I am unmatched;

and my king is it in the world."  And the idea of building RL on this Heller hull also... 

[Bill Morrison]

Fascinating build so far!

 

Bill

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

So here we are again... 

 

GUNS N° 89 AND 90

As I am doubtful about the Lemineur construction of two gunports into the row of windows in the transom - mainly due to the forces of recoil onto the light structure behind the the transom. And sencondly due to the moisten and wind comming in the officer's accommodation due to gaps arround these lids

So I decided to do a walk around and try out where elese these last two guns could have been placed. 

There is in the booklet of SAINT PHILIPPE no spreadsheet about the ordonances grouping after pounding. So I can add a pair of barrels to the light as to the medium ordonance - only the 36 pounders are questionable. 

 

I. POOPDECK
But to start with the less historical solution I think about to add the pair of barrels to the UD on the poop. As the side view doesn't have a fourth ring round gunport it is highly questionable but will satisfy any barrel counting child infront of the show case. 

 

Here I simply added a copy of the other gun ports into the estimated place.It is a much more discreet way to add a pair of ports into the hull than by cutting an integrated gunport into the transom forcing you to alter the hole construction. I have to admit misplaced it a bit towards stem in these smartphone picture manipulating app but please take it as a coloured scetch. 
But I must remember it is in opposition to the original sideview from 1692 so it is my line of retreat. 

II. BREAKHEAD BULKHEAD 
As we donat have any historical drawing of the breakhead bulkhead I am free to place the two guns in the breakhead bulkhead as just a second pair of gunports to the front. 

Duing this I will have to removel the stairs a bit or double it. 

By this I do eleminate these questionable solution in the transom turning it 180°. So there were some historical examples of breakhead bulkhead with four gunports in the UD. Keeping the other two in the MD we will have a proper solition with a real heavy armament to the front. 

 

Here it looks reasonable but if we follow the question "Could this really have worked?" as I like to ask. 

 

So here are these troubles I do run into:
There is the catheads ends that would stop the recoiling gun's carriage and  turning it's way towards the centerline. As we have no evidence about the breakhead bulkhead's shape this doesn't collidate with the sideview of SP but I think it has to a an acceptable solution to the problem we do face at this 90-gun ship. 

 

Solution:

The easier solution is the fourth gunport on poop deck the more problematich solution is to add a pair of  gunportsto thr breakhead bulkhead. 

 

What do you think about this way to get rid of the transom's questionable armament?

[Hubac's Historian]

I think it is quite possible that the central false window of the quarter gallery, on the middle deck tier, would have had a port piercing through the hull for an additional pair of guns.  This would be just forward of the functional toilet.  I believe these false windows were actually partially or wholly removable panels.  I doubt that they were continuously armed, though.

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

56 minutes ago, Hubac's Historian said:

I think it is quite possible that the central false window of the quarter gallery, on the middle deck tier, would have had a port piercing through the hull for an additional pair of guns.  This would be just forward of the functional toilet.  I believe these false windows were actually partially or wholly removable panels.  I doubt that they were continuously armed, though.

That sounds interesting, Marc, thanks a lot. So but what about the forces of the recoil the timbers are quite light to calsch a fiered 24pounder gunbarrel with its oak carrigage both together will weight several tons.  Compared to the cut of a frame taking the same forces in the MD the transoms timber looks quite fragile. 

 

Edit:

 

And it is the as I thought the transom timbers are weaker than the frames. In numbers we e are at 4,2×4,2 mm = 17,64 sqmms

vs. 3,8×3,8mm = 14,44 sqmms. What to do with this information? So if 17,64 is the regular number used to vatching the guns recoilment force regulary than 14,44 can be sufficient to be used? But what do you think about these numbers? Has Lemineur quit his complex conszruction in the next edition? 

 

I pictured both parts and added them side by side in scale to show the difference. 

 

But if we take your idea the gun to pointing through the officers toilet - that sounds like a great idea.  So I will move the door to stem as the gun crew would have to avoid hitting the stanchion directly infront of it's gun's muzzle. All we have to change is the hight of the window sill - or the hight of the wall inddr the window's pannel getting them in line to the gunports underside. 

But all in all it is an interesting and plausible and resonable idea...

 

I will keep this in mind  my only question is where wrre the 24pdr guns stored in between?...not to annoying the officer's beloved shining wooden parquet? 

I will copy athe crucial part of the 1/64 plan again cut out the gun and try it out - where to place it. 

 

b. t. w. there is no toilet seat in the "chamber of relieve"... 😬 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Heinrich der Seefahrer
Picture added

[Hubac's Historian]

If you look at Lemineur’s overhead plan view of the QG, in fact, you can see that he has pierced the ship side - just forward of the entry to the QG - with a gun port.

 

It seems that stowage of the gun would not present any issue in peace times because it would not be present.  In war times, though, if the navy were willing to subject all of their beautiful ornament to cannon shot, I don’t think they would worry too much about the truck wheels scuffing the parquet.

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Here again a critical look at the flat of the SOLEIL ROYAL from Heller and a comparison with a scaled frame drawing for all those who would like to dare to venture into this break.

At the moment there is an ambitious conversion project to a historic SR in the USA by Marc and a newly started SR by Steve from Downunder. I will watch carefully to learn from. So again a model maker is taking up this historically correct path and has announced that it will no longer color its SR in blue either. World is sometimes also changing from the better to the best. 

 

 

Our  Belgian Cederyc who rebuilt it to 

 

 

LA REYNE from 1671 

 

based on these two vdV ink&wash drawings 

showing her as the very link of leaving the much mor bent Dutch way of decoration into the Italien style free standing sculptured figures from poplar right into the French way of life and bringing a "kind of armed shoe box"* into our mind... slowly making progress because of the relocation of the building's own wales being a big obstacle for progress at the hull. 

An just me, the German who wants to cover the hull of the

SAINT PHILIPPE 1693 with a completely white hull without detached wales and with a vermillion red Upper Deck's friese of decor adding  heradic symbolic batches on top of the MD and above a lattice grit with fleur de lyse in it. I have to remember tat the (even lightened mit yellow ocker red was  still darkened by the linseed oil). 

 

I added a triangle ruler to the lines plan to give you some impression of the size of the project. So you can see the 10 is at the keel's underside and rising up to 208mm hight at the hull's side towards the hutt deck over poop. L. F. is the bent CWL so we do look onto the horizontal keel. 

and a picture of the flat to show how much changes have to be made with this kit's underwater part. 

I am not happy with the shape recently and have to get rid of this  line coming out - by sanding... 

... but what stays is this very sharp edge in the kit's surface form the planked towards the smooth surface that runs me mad till I got a first look onto the hull of the kit when opening this fantasticly large box.

 

 

Here the testpice simply rough and quick can sprayed white and  the other part red with a simple pice of card board added to give you some idea if the coulouring I am aiming for in particular without any CWL. 

The Vermillion Red, the Lapislazuli Blue and the Lead White and I think some verdisgrin green will find atheir own recovery by trying to replay their manifestation and their behavior in comibation with naturally pressed linseed oil on oak and poplar to get the best hidtorically correct assumptions for their way catching our eyes. 

Edit:
 Ohhh no I didn't run mad and worked with a dwarf's axe on the kit this is a kit pice I got sent by Mark for shape and testing purposes. I do appreciate it very very much and do think it will be very helpful with the first testplankings and adding a right joint to the surface of the wales hidding the villainous join to the public eye. 

*Children do drive honestly the truth to us.

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Hello,
yesterday I had a phonecall with MrKremer, Dr rer. nat. from Kremer Pigmente. And he told me our French baroque red wasn't vermillion as I estimated by me an Lemineur noted in the SP 1693 booklet - it would be much to wxpensive for half of a squaremile of estimated surface to cover...

 

 

There had gad been alternatives all around and even in the baroque era the did look for possibilities to lower the price. (A restaurator working in Museums and Chateaus told me often only the face side was intarsie finest done with all workman's hand craftship and then ste sides were neglected as the patrernnwas only paintel on the surface and astonishingly the wallside and underside were sometimes a carpenter's gifts graveyard with inforgivable rozghness hammered together - as the customer didn't want to pay for it. 

 

So this chosen solution was the much cheaper and longer holding MINIUM or Lead(II,IV) oxide. Due to oil it is mixed into it allways gets darker. 

And it can be added with an ockre yellow to get it to some kind of the direction of lighter more to orange. But we have to keep in mind these colours are all mixed with leenoil on oak. 

 

The second depression was it is not lapislazuli that was used not even for St. Mary's coat - it allways was Azurite. As it is a blue stone being much cheaper than the imported from Afghanistan Lapislazuli.

 

So I ordered little ammounts of Azurite, a powder adapting the very effects of leadwhite without beings such poisoning.

 

Verdigis for the floral effects. So I have the job to try these original colours out on oak.

 

And a black for the mixtoures.

 

Dr. Kremer told me the tar from below does work through the lead white and any other colours.

 

It is a pitty but as the plane modellers spray all of their joints dark grey (termicus technicus "preshaing" as I learned) we would have to do, too, as the tar is been soaked up into any colour from below. What a pitty only freshly painted ships seem to have been free of these stripes.

 

Dr. Kremer does sell pigments to artist and restaurateurs d'art all over the world and is also in contact to several owners of antique ships that do purchase their original colouring at his store. He was very kind and helpfull.

 

 

In my email I also asked for black bigments for darkering the nails against the white of the hull: 

And he told me the figures were painted naurally in skin colour and gold and shadowed (like a wash) to give them much more deepness. 

The third depressin was that the figures are perspectivilly longered and shortened towards the usual point of view of a visitor - as mainly from the waterline to above. So I do decide against this "deformation progress" my viewers do stand directly vis-a- vis the model... but historically it is a fraud. Still struggling... 

 

What do you think about this change?

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Heinrich der Seefahrer
Picture added

[Hubac's Historian]

Well, Chris, I think this all sounds like a reasonable plan.  The colors that Lemineur arrived at seem to change, a bit, depending upon the conditions the model was photographed in.  Here, the colors seem a little too bright:

 

Yet, here, the red seems to take on just slightly more of the orangey cast of the dry pigment you have pictured above:

Neither representation is displeasing, or fails to represent the period, IMO.

 

It is unclear to me whether you plan to purchase raw pigment powders and bind them in linseed oil.  I will advise against doing that on a plastic model.  Without driers, the oil will remain tacky for an inordinate time, and in any case - you are sure to obscure whatever fine detail you want to represent.  This is also the reason that I don’t like enamel paints for wooden ship models.  They are too heavy bodied.

 

For plastic ship models, acrylics are the way to go - even if you find you must mix several colors to arrive at the shade you want.  I like Testors Model Master for my red, random tan, black and white.  I can modulate these colors with my wash coats, and their ease of application can’t be beat.  Vallejo acrylics are also excellent and come in a broad spectrum of colors.  Lastly, I like Citadel for their metallics and ver-de-gris, and other wash coats.

 

I think, with these French Baroque warships there can be a tendency to become overwhelmed by the sheer volume of details that exist for consideration.

 

I encourage you to NOT try and figure out every last thing, right at the start.  This was advice given to me by Herbert Thomesan, of Artitec renown.  You have a solid foundational plan.  You have made a good start of it.  Just keep going.  So many of these questions and considerations become clearer as you build.

 

In the end, our models are an amalgamation of detail that - considered as a whole - strikes an impression of mostly correctness, or some lesser variation.  If you consider the two models that were constructed for the SP monograph, Jose Tusset’s fully-rigged version is vastly superior in the overall standard of execution.  Nevertheless, the impression cast by the admiralty version (pictured above) is highly representative of the period.

 

Don’t sweat it too much.  If you break it down into manageable chunks, and take your time, the results will be very good.  Trust your sub-conscious to incubate the nitty gritty, while your hands are busy with the broad strokes.  This has been my guiding philosophy with woodworking, and it applies equally well to ship modeling.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Hubac's Historian

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Thanks Marc, for this important warning and heartwarming advice... and yes I ordered that expensive powder stuff and I plan to use it intensivly - but on oak boards to get an idea of the real effect of the real thing under real conditions. So we all get a realistic feeling for the colours and surfaces we dealing with in scale. I don't like to grease my hole model of plastic into colourfull oil...  ...not my way of getting to a sufficient cup of tea. 😉 But I understand that you are froozen by this horrible idea - and yes I didn't point out enough not to do such a stupid creative thing. You have been right to be shocked. 

 

So doing it on oak boards I hope to be able to show it to all of you. Due to these sata I will then try to achieving the quite same effect on plastic by mixed acrylic colours. This isn't only for me and the SP1693 it is for public and the further projects. These results can be used by everybody of us for the hole baroque era afloat.

On the other hand I can try out the mixtoures for the figurehead because I am not longer shure the staint was purley leaf golded - he may be coloured very skillfull and colourful as your transomnstarts to turn out. So I dothink about a golden white tunica and a black ang greenish demon he is riding on.

 

So we may start to say "good night" to this traditional colouring we were grown up with from books from the 60th and 70th. 

 

So as we were used to think of a  golden 'n' blue VASA as we grow up with this images - but it is fading away. So it is replaced by a coulourfull late Renaissance/early Baroque appearance that was found in very little amounts on the recent wrecksite. 

 

And we now know that the king ordered more and more ordonace into the hull but thus didn't sunk the shio. There were barbed bolts keeping the planks over the ballast and these  were replaced to cheaper and smooth nails. But these didn't take the force of the moving stones below and came out so the ballast moved. This was the real reason the ship was listing into it's wet grave for 300 years...  my first example when stinginess causes a catastrophe coming to my mind when a customer asks if he couldn't get it cheaper. 

 

But back to the SAINT PHILIPPE 1693! 

Yes these red is very bright and "orangey" on the model AND i don't like it very mu h - even thinking about southern French sunlight of the Mediterranean coast it bites in my left left eye much more and this is Baroque not Impressionism! So the idea of darkening the minum is a good one this may be done by the linseeoil and the oak's rosin without any other additives. 

 

Also the yellow will be not so aggressive and more quiet and closer to a golden illusion - due to this both together should give a nice majestic impression. 

 

Aaaaa Gold... our idea today is the nickel alloied gold coming from SouthAfrica till 1902. So our baroque gold is mostly Russian or LatinAmerican and that is an alloy with copper - so the shine is more a red shade. I will do some eesearch for the underlay for leaf gold in the Baroque to figure out what shade it will bring in. Only Iranian mosques roofs were so solide cladded by gold that the fantastic light blue ties completly disappeared and didn't shine through*. 

 

I will went to a completly white hull with the red part atop due to this technic I will avoid the discussion on the right placement of the CWL - as she is invisible... 

...hopefully this will work out. 

 

I do think of overdoing the kit with details - certainly I do this too. Who doesn't!? But I think of giving her stumps of masts to create a hull model and the next kit may be a rigged version - so I can slowly come to these very complex combination of pulleys that make the hole rigg movable. And there is a five disked block in the MD for the main yard. 

So there are enough places to work on and challenges to master. 

_____

*until the 80th when the stored gold was removed from the roofs to be used to help the war orphans and families. 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Heinrich der Seefahrer