CA vs. Wood glue

[rtropp]

I am curious which type of glue, CA or Wood glue, is preferred and why. 

I am using CA for the first time.  (also ordered debonder for the first time.)

thanks,

Richard

[russ]

Richard:

Check out this thread.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1894-glue-recommendations/?hl=glue

 

 

Russ

[Juan Carlos]

i prefer wood glue.  i use it if i have to use clamps or need time for position.  i use ca when planking the hull.  use it in spot areas in combination with wood glue.  that will hold the plank in place while the wood glue dries. excess wood glue is easier to clean.  ca is not.  joints done with wood glue are easier to sand than joints done with ca.  ca is a lot harder. i build rc airplanes and crash them quite often (thats why im building ships now).  i noticed that after a crash, wood glue joints failed very little compared to ca joints.  when do i use wood glue?  if i can glue a part that wont move out of position or need clamping.  Ca to help the wood glue to keep the part in place and for spot repairs if i cant use wood glue.  for  rigging, i use diluted white glue.   use ca to make a portion of a line hard as a needle to make it easier to pass thru blocks.  use ca to glue 2 different materials together.  wood glue is for wood to wood joints only.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Juan Carlos

[Garward]

I am curious which type of glue, CA or Wood glue, is preferred and why. 

I am using CA for the first time.  (also ordered debonder for the first time.)

thanks,

Richard

 

Each type and grade of glue have the appointment and many of them are suitable for wood pasting. What do you mean by the term "wood glue"?

[rtropp]

Thank you all. 

Russ, that link was very helpful.

I will try Titebond Original Wood Glue.  As much as I tried, the CA ran too freely.

A question on technique.  With CA you clamp the piece then glue the seam.  Is it the opposite with Titebond Original Wood Glue? For titebond do you glue the sides or edges and then clamp?

 

Thanks all.

[russ]

With any wood glue, you want to apply the glue, then join the pieces and clamp as necessary.

 

Russ

[JPett]

Ahoy Russ

 

With thin CA and smaller pieces I have had sucess aligning the two pieces and then applying CA to the seam similar to how it is done with some plastic cements. I use a broken needle to apply very small amounts precisely at these seams. Doing it this way allows for better control over the position of the pieces due to the almost instantaneous bonding of the thin CA

 

On a side note: I have used this techque when gluing parts with PVA, epoxy and thick CA that can not be clamped or properly secured. I apply the glue, trying to have as little as possible (none is better) oozing from the seams and then once in postion I tack it with the thin CA. If any glue does ooze out I just clean it off and then hit it with the CA. This helped me secure some very difficult planks on my hull

Edited May 12, 2013 by JPett

[russ]

J.Pett:

Hmmm. If he were talking about CA glue, I would agree that capillary action will work. However, with the rather thick wood glues, it is always best to apply the glue, then join the pieces. I have never seen a wood glue that would run into a seam on its own. With thin CA yes, but not wood glue. To get a good joint, you need an even coat of wood glue for best adhesion. That is a standard of wood working.

 

I have seen a drop of CA used along with wood glue in hard to clamp areas. However, mechanical clamping of some sort should be used wherever possible. Clamping helps make a good joint.

 

Russ

[lamarvalley]

There is a world of difference between the two and their uses vary too, at least to me.

 

For the most part, I use CA glue only when I cannot clamp an object. CA glue is relatively fast setting and that can be good and bad. Good when clamping is impossible and who can sit and hold a piece for minutes at a time waiting for adhesion and bad when the pieces are misaligned and become instantaneously stuck. There are different thicknesses and I find the thinner the faster setting. I use CA glue maybe 2% of the time and I never have clamped and glued a seam... maybe I'll give it a shot sometime with CA. I'm with Russ, that technique won't work with wood glue...

 

Wood glue, like the titebond is a wonderful product. With a good joint or union between two pieces of wood and appropriate clamping pressure the seam can become stronger than the wood to either side of the seam. The glue should be applied lightly but throughly on both pieces and then clamped. Too much pressure and the glue with be squeezed out and the joint will become 'glue starved' - it will not hold so don't go crazy with the clamping. How can you tell...?? practice.

[JPett]

Ahoy Russ

My apologizes

I misread the post and thought he was using CA

DUH

[Juan Carlos]

thin ca works by capillary action.  you put the parts together, then apply the glue.  thick, or gap filling, or gel ca, you put the glue on the parts, then join them.  the problem with thin ca is that the capillary action is not limited to the joint, it will spread  around the area.  that is ok if you plan to use paint, but might be a problem if you plan on using stains because it will seal the wood fiber.  one trick used in rc airplanes is to use ca when you need a strong area for bolts.  drill a hole in the wood, then put thin ca in it.  that will make that area very stong.  then you can screw in a bolt or drive a pin in using epoxy or more ca.  it will be harder for the part to be pulled out under tension.  to summarize:  both kind of glues have their uses, advantages and flaws. learn them and you will be fine.  but, if i had to use only 1 kind of glue, it will be wood glue, no doubts about it.  pva (wood glue) is slow, but only sticks good to wood.  ca will stick to everything.  one example:  you are planking your hull, one you plan on staining.  you put the plank in place, put some clamps to hold the part in place and then use thin ca on the joints.  in a couple of minutes you remove the clamps to go to the other side.  if ca gets under the clamp, will have to wrestle that clamp free, probably pulling a few fibers of wood out with the clamp.  then, when you sand, the area with ca will probably finish up higher than the soft wood not touched by the ca.  then, when you stain, the results will not be that even on the areas where the ca spread.  this will happen with thin ca.  do not throw your ca away. it has its uses.  it also has a limited life, so do not buy the big bottles for rc uses.

[dgbot]

I use both. metal to wood for CA and pva glue for everything else.  PVA in my opion works better for wood.  You might have to clamp the part but the end result is better and stronger.  A CA joint has little shear strength and can be difficult to clean up if you use to much.

David B

[SatelliteCity]

If you are experiencing bond failures with wood and CA glue- that is, if the glue itself is separating from the wood rather than the wood breaking with the glue joint intact- the problem may be the result of using the wrong viscosity or just a cheap brand that doesn't perform well.  While it is true that thin CA glue cures faster than thick, you can't choose the viscosity (thickness) just for the setting time that you want.  You also have to factor in the fit of the pieces and the porosity of the material.

 

For instance, if you are bonding some porous wood and you use thin CA glue, it will cure fast, but it will also get sucked into the wood.  Instead of forming a great bond, it will harden the wood and make a weak bond.  If the pieces are not fitted perfectly, you also will not get a solid bond because thin CA glue is incapable of filling gaps.  In these instances, a medium CA glue would be much more effective.  Good quality CA glue is extremely strong, and it should be a rare instance when you cannot make a bond stronger than the wood- and that includes shear strength.

 

That is not to say that it is the only type of glue that should be used, but the problems listed above are not inherent in cyanoacrylate.

[rtropp]

If I understand correctly, CA would be the wrong choice to use in areas that would be stained.  Is that correct?. 

[russ]

So long as the CA does not get on the surface that is to be stained you are okay. The same goes with wood glues.

 

Russ

[SatelliteCity]

Here's a model ship you might recognize being built with CA glue.  Below are pictures from page 45 of the book, Industrial Light and Magic: The Art of Special Effects.  The modelers shown used Hot Stuff to construct the pirate ship from Goonies.

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2013 by SatelliteCity

[apprentice]

I use ca only when it is absolutely necessary (not possible to clamp the parts together). The important advantage of wood glue is that if you want to correct a mistake or not happy with a part, just place a piece of cotton wool soak in water over it overnight, and the part will come off easily. You can't do it with ca without damage to the surrounding.

 

One point about ca is the setting time. It will set very fast (with the thin ca within 8 seconds) if it is a very thin layer. The setting time will be much longer if a large droplet is applied to the parts to be clued. Dirt and Oil of any description is detriment to the strength of a cured joint. Make sure clean the joints using alecohol to remove finger makr and the like. The parts to be joined by ca must be perfectly matched otherwise only the high bits that touch wach other bond together while the rest is not bonded; resulting in a weak joint.

 

In conclusion, I think ca is a difficult animal to handle.