US Brig Syren by Redshadowrider - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - First wooden ship build

[Overworked724]

Hi Red.  I kind of 'rough faired' the frames before I glued them in - since as I was sanding (using a sandpaper covered painting stirrer) the frames would slightly shift a bit.  After I got the fillers in and the frames glued on - it was like a rock, and the fairing from that point was more 'touch up' than anything else.  Just be sure to use a planking strips to verify the lay of the planks across the hull.  If you have any high or low spots, they tend to stick out.  

[Redshadowrider]

Thanks for the tip on sanding the high spots.  With planking being so thin, It is probably a lot like the lite ply or balsa surface we need perfect before adding the covering on the planes I fly.  I will do the once over before moving on.

 

As indicated, I had no 1X2 stock around, so I masked up and went to Lowes.  (My second home, or maybe my first...just not sure.)  Picked up some tite bond glue that dries clear and a 1"X2"x6' poplar strip and started.  In the picture you can see the first 3 spacer blocks in place and clamped.  I think sanding after they are in should take care for the fairing of the hull.  Well time for lunch and drying the glue, will pick back up this afternoon.

 

 

[Overworked724]

I love Lowe’s. 10% Military Discount on everything you buy!  

[Redshadowrider]

.  Ready to start planking.

 

Whoa... 😄     just getting your attention.  Ready to plank the lower deck at bulkhead 20.  

 

I have all the bulkheads in place and all block spacers in, squared, and glued.  You can see the last ones at the bow still under clamps.  Now, I am going to wait 24 hours to let the glue dry.  Then it's onward....

 

Process Note:  During this step, I did a couple of things differently than instructions indicate  (No, not that I am an expert, far from it.)  However, I have read more than enough threads here to know that squaring the bulkheads is extremely important, so I took my time.  However, I put in the bulkheads first (no glue) then began to square up with other sections as I added them.  By not gluing the bulkheads to the bulkhead former, I was able to square ones that were off without twisting glued wood at the center.  Each block has been squared, shaped and glued  in even with no glue on the bulkheads.  As you glue in each bulkhead, there is glue on the block on 3 sides.  Bow and Stern sides are glued to 2 bulkheads as well as the former.  I doubt they will move, but one more step I will add.  Once all blocs are in, and the glue dried, I am going to come back on the underneath side and use the CA Applicator with extra thin CA and put some glue on each intersection of the bulkhead former and bulkhead.  This should make it solid as a rock.... or good enough.  

 

Newbie Error:  Not quite a mistake, but a slight error.  I couple of the spacing blocks are extended just above the bulkheads on the deck floor.  I have a chisel that I can use to remove just a little without hitting the bulkhead.  Try not to do this..  Luckily I have only 2 to clean up and it is not too difficult.

 

Just remembered something else.  If you build your own building board, try to incorporate a base and lazy susan rotation hardware.  I was really glad I had it when jumping from side to side on this part.  Just remember to make it so you can lock it down at any angle.  

 

Now the pics.

[Redshadowrider]

Question:  I have been considering wood finish for planking and decks.   There is Golden Oak Minwax as the instructions indicate,  and another, Tung oil, that I have seen in other builds.  I am going to have to order it anyway, so I have time and for input from y’all.  Suggestions are welcome.... 😄

[Overworked724]

I have tried both. Tung oil offers a nice benefit in that if you have some glue blemishes it won’t matter. Stain is always a risk if you have any unwanted glue spread. 

[Redshadowrider]

Thanks for the comment on the glue.  I had forgotten that glue can present a problem.  We don’t stain any part of our planes.  😀

Tung oil it is.

[Overworked724]

If you look on my Sultana build log I’ve got some swatches which show that exact effect with darker stains. Staining with a natural stain (which is what I use beside tung oil) isn’t an issue. 

[Redshadowrider]

Thanks, I will give it a look.

 

After looking, there is no question, Tung Oil is the answer.  

[Redshadowrider]

Status Update

 

I tried to think of something to call this.  I am retired, but Project Management still creeps back in.  😁

 

Last thing before a short break.  ....  well maybe, maybe not.

 

I have finished, except for the bow fillers, which come tomorrow.  The instructions recommend that you shape them before gluing in, so that's doable.  I have completed the lower deck, except for finish, and placement.  I have decided on Tung Oil, as it just looks good on a wooden ship.   Any way onto something I noticed in the instructions, and can easily lead to a little confusion.  

 

Hull Fairing  (Minor Point?)

 

...Page 7 - Line 5 / /Right hand column 

                   Once all of the bulkheads are temporarily in position, you will fair the hull

 

..Page 8 - Caption underneath of the Bow Filler pictures

                  "It can not be emphasized enough how important it is to fair the hull properly.  Check that a planking strip will lay flat across all bulkheads....." 

 

As a newbie, and this build log, I consider this minor, but if this is your first time, you need to know.  It seems you can choose to fair after putting in the bulkheads temporarily on page 7.  Or wait until after all spacing blocks area glued in as on Page 8.   I chose the second option on page 8.  I am more comfortable fairing the hull with not a lot of movement in the bulkheads.  So far I am glad that I waited....   In the picture, I have finished the spacer blocks, and the build of the lower deck.  With things glued in place, I am personally more confident that things won't move during the fairing process.  I have also taken an aircraft control rod and laid it along the center deck.  I know it isn't a perfect use of it, but 

it was narrow enough to fit between the bulwarks on the bow.  Looks good to me.   Next is using tung oil on the lower deck then gluing it in place.  Until I get the tung oil (ordered today) I will shape and try fairing.

 

 

 

 

[Redshadowrider]

Bow filler blocks now in..  sanded, clamped and glued.

 

After they dry, I will undertake "fairing" of the hull.  I should have the tung oil later today and will add first coat to the lower deck piece.  For fairing, I think I like the idea of gluing a strip of sandpaper to a paint stirring stick, but am open to other ideas.  As soon as the glue dries on the bow filler blocks, I will be adding bulkhead glue (CA) from the bottom.  This will allow capillary action to solidify the bulkheads to the bulkhead former.  

 

Obligatory pic:

 

 

[Redshadowrider]

First plank being formed and dried in place for bow pattern.  So far, it looks very good, with only a small amount of adjustments on the outside.  Since I haven't done the inside yet, that will the the side with more work needed.  Time for a break as I have a board meeting of the RC flying club that I belong to and I am waiting for the tung oil to arrive.  In the picture, you can see the lower deck awaiting application of the tung oil.  

 

[Redshadowrider]

Obligatory non-project picture:  😁

[Redshadowrider]

Newbie Question:  I have noticed that the adjustments to outside edge of the bulkheads appears to be mostly in the first 4 bulkheads and the last 3 or 4 at the stern.  The plank then lies flat on the next several bulkheads until close to the stern where some adjustments begin again.  
 

Am I seeing this correctly?  

[Overworked724]

Yep. The middle bulkhead frames need very little fairing. Keep in mind the char on the frames if left there can lead to less stable glue seals. The char can ‘come off’. Some folks sanded the char to ensure solid glue surface. 

[Redshadowrider]

Thanks for the answer and warning on the char problem.  I will make sure to remove it before gluing.  The Tung oil is delayed until tomorrow, so there is no rush.  I can take time to make sanding is correct since all gluing is done and the hull is pretty solid.

[Overworked724]

That’s an awesome plane!  What a great hobby!!!!

[Redshadowrider]

Fairing Underway

 

I have come to the point where I need to fair the hull and have done one side already and am started on the other.  I read on a thread (I think someone following this build.) that they used a pain stirring stick with sandpaper glued on.  I can say, from my view, this is a perfect tool for it.  Just enough pressure to sand where needed, and the ability to have a little bend in it.  This makes the bow to stern fairing task much easier than a solid sanding bar.  (Newbie Opinion) 

 

You can see in the picture the sanding bar, and the supports that I built for the building board.  The arms that are being used have a long base that can be clamped into the board vises allowing for adjustment to fit the position of the bulkheads on different models.  I have added a close up in case you are interested in how I built them.  Add to that the lazy susan hardware, it makes for a convenient way to get to both sides without moving the whole model.

 

Newbie Error:  (minor)  Make sure to sand both sides of the bow fillers as the inside and the outside are needed.  I forgot to sand the deck side and had to come back when the forms were glued in place.  It's not difficult if you have a dremel and a small chisel, but you won't need either if you remember.  

 

Still some sanding to do and it's on to Chapter 3......

 

[Overworked724]

Might have been me...but I’m sure folks on the forum have a whole series of sanding sticks!  Painting stirrers are a mighty useful tool!!!!!

 

Lookkng good, Red!!!

[Redshadowrider]

Thanks,  Overworked, I am still waiting for the Tung oil.  It’s supposed to come today, but if not I may have to reorder.  Will have to see. 

[Redshadowrider]

TEMPORARILY STUMPED 

 

Chapter 3 starts out with the instructions and set up for the gun ports and the supporting structure surrounding them.  I have followed the instructions to the letter and have a problem.  I taped together the gun port template and cut it out as the instructions indicate.  However, as you can see by the pictures, the templates are not even close to the actual layout of the bulkheads.  I understand that some will be out of place and need to be reconstructed, but this pattern has only about 2 that are close.  The rest so out of line, that I am very concerned that if I use the template provided, that It will throw off everything else that is downline. 

 

My assumption is that the template paperwork that was provided "might" be printed at the wrong size for it to be 100% the size needed.  As a newbie, I am reluctant to move forward until I have a template that is the right size.  I looked at other build threads here and if there is a picture it appears that the bulkheads match the template.  I have considered using the template only for plank locating, but and not comfortable doing that.  I am wondering if anyone has any information or suggestion on this issue?  Has anyone else encountered this?  

 

My plan is to contact both Micro Mark, and Model Shipways for advice. 

[Overworked724]

Yep...I had the same problem as did most.  There may be a slight discrepancy in the printout vs the actual physical frame.  The frames themselves are 'true'.  You can consider this as you try to line up the template against the frame - but for me, the most important thing was getting that batten aligned correctly and at the right height.  Everything evolves from the first batten - as your lower sills (gun port height above the deck) are based upon it.  Your gun port sills will evolve from the level and sweep of the batten. 

 

If your frames are squared properly, you should be ok.  I found lining up the template from the stern frame first was more helpful for me as mine didn't fit perfectly either.  The template is 2D from the side only - so the curvature at the bow is not included in the printout (at least that is what I am led to believe!) - so if you try to line up the template across the curve of the ship at the bow then the template doesn't line up and will come up short...at this point, I eyeballed some of it and relied on the measurements, as well as an understanding of where the gun ports exist in relation to the masts.  That's one reason why I put in the mast holes first - so I could pop in my faux masts and confirm my view of where I was putting in the upright sections which form the ports.  

 

If you observe the plans, the positioning of the gun ports are most critical at midships, where you need to account for the channels and the chain plate interference.  If the gun ports near the masts are offset, you could have some difficulty with the chain plates crossing in front of the gun ports.  

 

If you ensure symmetry of the port locations on both sides, and rely on the plans to ensure consistency in the location versus the masts, you can be pretty confident you won't have issues - I found the template useful in clarifying how the gun and sweep ports are built and aligned - but again, used it as a guide and not the rule.

 

Not sure if that helps.  

[Redshadowrider]

Thanks, it does help some.  And I heard back from Chuck Passaro as well.  He says to avoid using the templates altogether, and us “tick strips.”  That is fine, and all, but I will need to read up and learn how to use them.  As far as construction is concerned, it’s not that much different than frame building on the planes.  If I get it started right between each bulkhead, the pieces, the rest is just accuracy.  Got some studying to do.  👍

[Overworked724]

That's excellent.  Chuck is probably THE authority and great source for advice for the Syren.  Regardless, hope you are enjoying your build!  You are doing great!

[Redshadowrider]

Yes, I am having fun.  I am a retired engineer, although not structural.  I am in the habit of solving problems and this kit has provided the questions I like solving.  And, it is like plane building from the framing point of view.

 

Comment:  There are marks on each bulkhead that look like I can use.  There are 3 marks with the second up from the bottom mark appearing to show the top edge of the gun port sill as it forms the bottom plank (The sill.). I will add a picture when it is clamped in place.  This is explained in the instructions in a later paragraph.  

[Overworked724]

Be careful clamping to those frame horns...I broke them like 3 or 4 times.  The laser etching sometimes cut too deep and made them weak.  (I think there is a conspiracy between the ship model maker companies and super glue companies!!)

[Redshadowrider]

Yeah, I have read the instructions over the thinning of the bulwarks.  After reading them, I am convinced that thinning them now would mean I would break them, just trying to finish it.  So far, I am holding off as long as possible.  I have had one bulkhead where the top section on both sides just fell off.  I am lucky it is at the top, so I think it will be covered by the cap rail.  🙄

[Redshadowrider]

Gun Port Sills/Tops 

 

At this writing, I have finally received the Tung Oil that was on order.  So I have backtracked to the lower deck placement.  It has never been a major issue, but I don't like leaving a trail of unfinished steps.  Right now, I am only holding off on sanding the bulwark stanchions "thinner" until later.  Even if I did do them, there is more coming anyway.  Since that is the case, I will combine the two sanding steps into one final one.  Just makes the final one longer ... at least that is what I tell myself.  😄 

I threw together a sill leveling tool that worked fine on the first (most important) gunport sill.  Right on the marks, and level port to starboard.  You can see the hand level banded to two popsicle sticks  The small level below is a bubble level used in a airplane "balancing" tool.  I use another balancing process on the plane so it is not needed. I glued it to a small piece of wood.  If you place the popsicle sticks at the top of the stanchions and level port to starboard, using the small bubble to read out the gun port sill, ensuring it is also level.  (I might just fashion a better longer level set up.  The rubber bands allow for different widths.  I think this will achieve the need to level the sills on each gunport.)  I am readying myself for cutting and sanding around 72 pieces?...for the 18 sills and tops on both sides.  

 

 

[Redshadowrider]

I decided today, that I am going to buy the Micro Mark Sanding tool since there is going to be a lot of repetitive sanding of the top and bottom gunport sills.  After sanding and placing 3 of the sills in place, I find I need a tool to ensure my sanding accuracy.  I have a disk/belt sander that is on a floor stand, and it works fine for big pieces and those needing a lot of sanding.  I just need something more of the scale needed to sand different parts of the Syren kit.  Want to avoid eating too much wood from the part I am sanding.  😄

 

I will continue with other items until it arrives.  ....below is a picture of the lower deck finished with tung oil.  
 

[Redshadowrider]

Sanding Question:  I have been reading about sanding the bulwark stanchions and gun port sills.  I understand how I can accomplish sanding the outside using the stirring stick like I did when I was fairing the hull.  However, I am not sure what the process is on the inside.  Walrus, I looked through your build log, and saw that you used a Dremel, but I am wondering what you did.  I did a search and am still trying to find a thread that lays it out.