Request for Help- Soldering with Paste

[PopJack]

I watched the tutorial and several youtube videos on soldering with paste.  It seems like it should be easy to do and give good results.

 

I cannot get it to work!  I've tried making two different fittings and both times they come apart.

 

I am using Fusion Brand "Brazing Paste"

Product stl-1205-655

 

I am wondering if I got the wrong stuff?  I am using a nice micro torch and am cleaning everything up well.  I apply heat, wait for the flux to bubble and then remove the heat.  The surfaces to be mated pressed tightly together. 

 

After repeated failures, I went back and cleaned up everything and then soldered with plain lead free solder and it worked well.  I want to solder the rings closed so that the riggings won't pull them open over time, but with regular solder and flux, this seems like it would be a bear, while with the paste, it appears pretty easy.

 

On the positive side, I did make my VERY FIRST METAL FITTING!  It was just harder than I thought it should be.

 

 

[PopJack]

I continued to experiment after the last post.  The paste works fine, it just takes quite a bit more than I thought.

 

First, I made a couple of "easy" joints.  This is 1/8" brass flat brass, btw

 

 

Then I prepared to do what I couldn't do before.  I started a bend and cleaned up the surfaces to be mated with a file.

 

 

I then put as much paste as I could justify on it.

 

 

I heated slowly with a torch and after most of the flux has evaporated, but while the remaining solder was still hot, I pinched the hot joint closed with a pair of hemostats.  (No photos, I don't have that many hands)

 

After it cooled, I had a reasonable joint.

 

 

I still am not sure how to close up rings or how to avoid this "squeeze it while its hot" stage, but at least I can do some work.

[russ]

I use that paste with no issues. You really do need to anneal the metal first so that it will be easy to bend. Then when you create a joint, overbend the material to create a joint that will spring against itself. That will create a solid mating edge. You need to do all of that forming before ever reaching for the torch.

 

The easiest joint to make is a simple ring such as in an eyebolt. So, on your soldered eye with the brass strip, instead of trying to solder the entire width of the strip to itself, just bend the end of the strip back to itself and create a simple butt joint to make an eye. That will be a much simpler soldering job.

 

When you finish your joint, the test is to put some stress on it. If you can bend it, twist etc without the joint coming loose, then it is good to go.

 

Russ

[PopJack]

Thanks for the response Russ.  To anneal, I just heat it up and then quench it? 

Edited June 22, 2013 by PopJack

[mtaylor]

With brass,  heat it red hot and then let it air cool.

 

edit:  per Wikipedia.. air cool or quench in water. Not oil.

[russ]

I never quench mine at all. Just let it cool. I like to bend it before it completely cools.

 

Russ

[PopJack]

I'm making a yolk with a connection point on both sides.  I am still having trouble, but now I can't find the tutorial  I can't do it with butt joints.  It's time to walk away for a while!

[russ]

The article is in the article downloads section. Go to the top of the page and click on it and then look in ship model materials and tools. You can download it and have it on your hard drive for future reference.

 

I do not know what you are making though. I have not heard the term yolk in shipmodeling. If I could see what it looks like, I might have some suggestions on how best to solder it. What you showed earlier looked like a simple loop in the end of the brass strip. That can be done with a butted joint easily enough. I do that to make eyes in wire and brass strip.

 

Russ

[freewheelinguy]

Russ,

 

When I click on your link in tools and materials it takes me to a conversion thread.

[russ]

I did not put up a link, but here is a direct link to the soldering tutorial.

 

http://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/materials_and_tools/SilverSolderTutorial.pdf

 

Russ

[PopJack]

Here is a sketch of what I'm trying to make.  It is not in the kit, not would there be a place for it if I followed the directions.  That said, I have seen this kind of thing in photos of the real boats as well as on different models.

 

I called it a yolk, I'm not aware of what to properly call it.  I intend on mounting it on a spar, and then running chain of both sides.

 

Thanks for any references of links to where I can see something like this being made.

 

 

[russ]

That is a mast band. Here is how I make it. Take a strip of brass and then wrap it around a dowel of the appropriate size. Butt one end of the band against itself and solder it. Now, you have the strip with the band formed in the end of it. Drill a hole in the strip just a little ways out from the band and then you can trim the strip to form one of the lugs. The lug has the hole in it and that is where you will attach the rigging gear.

 

Now, drill a hole in the band on the side opposite the soldered joint and make up another small strip with a pin cut on the end of it. Place that pin in the hole you drilled with some paste and solder it. Now, drill a hole in the second strip that you just soldered to the band and trim that strip to form the second lug. You can reach in with some nippers and trim the pin on the inside of the band and then carefully file it down flush.

 

You can use this same technique if you want to have four lugs on a mast band. Harold Underhill describes this in the second volume of his book Plank on Frame Models. I have used this on several ocassions and it works well. It will save you having to solder long pieces of the brass strip together. Here is one rather poor example of my mast bands.

 

Russ

[PopJack]

Thank you.  I can see how that technique would work and would result in clean bands- like the ones in your photo.  I can't wait to try it.

 

FYI only, after I posted the sketch, I found .an alternate technique in similar to what I was trying in "the Neophyte Shipmodeller's Jackstay"  I don't think it will result in as clean results as you have though

 

Over the next few days I make several in both techniques.  If I have success, I will post what I tried.

 

Thanks again for the response, it is really helpful and appreciated.