Bolts / treenails for late 19ct Gloucester fishing schooner?

[juhu]

Hi all,

I would like to ask fo the help with planking treenails / iron bolts for deck and hull planking for a gloucester fishing schooner ca. 1880.

I am building Smuggler kit from BlueJacket (1/4 or 1:48 scale), but prefer not to paint it, rather let the natural wood to be seen and some faithfull representation of plank fastenings would help.

 

A) Deck

Here I am somehow confused. On a few historical shots actually no treenails are visible. I assume, the bolts were hidden under some kind of wooden plugs, not visible against the deck structure? Also on restored fishing schooner below, there is absolutely no treenail, no plug, nothing visible. I really do not know, how are the deck planks attached. Would it be then best to leave any fastenings off completely? I guess those nice treenails lines seen on many models are appropriate for earlier ships, may be not for these fishermen?

 

B )  Hull

Here I guess it would be simplier. Small drilled holes might be suitable representation of presumably iron or steel bolts used to fix hull planks?

 

Any ideas or hints are highly appreciated!

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by juhu

[juhu]

Just adding. I do have an original print of great book "The American fishing schooners" by Chapelle, yet was not able to find satisfying answers so far....

[allanyed]

Juhu,  I just sent an email to Bristol Marine asking about this as they are rebuilding the Effie M. Morrissey 1894.   A member here, Jond, visits their yard regularly as he is building a model of Effie (renamed Ernestina) and may already have an answer as well.  Will let you know what I hear back from their yard.

Allan

[Jond]

Please see photo from a few years ago of Ernestina planking. Trunnels are used throughout .    as a plank crosses a frame, see the diagonal pattern.  One up in one half of frame and the other down in the other half.  Frames are pairs of 6 ", and spaced roughly 2 feet on center. The pattern alternates working up the frame as seen in photo.  

 

Jon. 

[Jond]

Ernestina and old schooner lovers...

 

I went back through some photos on the deck.  This post will not totally resolve the questions, but it does shed some light.

 

  in this photo one orients himself as to the decking coming onto the waterway

 

  In this blow up one can see pegs over fasteners .  Also note the linseed oil compound that blackens the whole deck.

 

  In this photo we see similar plugs following a pattern that is obviously a deck beam.   the Douglas fir decking and plugs make it difficult to see in an unfinished condition and totally unlikely to see in an oiled condition.     From my reading it is likely that the plugs are cut from the same material that make them act the same, as to expansion, and seem to disappear.   Wood trunnels on the other hand would be hackmatack or other harder material than the planking and thus stand out in hull planking.

 

This may not be a complete answer and I will look forward to reading here the yard's answer.   

 

cheers 

 

jon

[juhu]

Hi Allan, Jon

thank you very much for your time and posted info - very helpful.

 

To sum it up - in 1/4 scale, probably leaving off the deck fasteners would not do any harm - due to the plugs covering them, they are barely visible. Yet I may find a way how to represent them in very gentle way. As for the hull, Trunnels are much more obvious being obviously from different kind of wood. Let's see....

 

Those pics are wondeful. Just by just if I may bother a bit more, would there be any complete view of deck margin plank? According to Chappele, there seems to be no strict rule when it comes to the deck patter, more it dependen on how much effort and money was there to be paid for the labor and how delicate the each vessel would be. I saw examples of margin plank being composed from butt joined pieces as well as more refine scarf join. But I could not find any info on how long would each piece of margin plank be. Also, margin plank joints are very seldom to be visible in available pics.

 

Thank you

 

Juraj

Edited December 15, 2020 by juhu

[Bob Cleek]

As Jon's photos accurately depict, metal fasteners (often in this size construction galvanized square-cut boat nails are countersunk and plugged with a wooden plug of the same species of wood set into the planking with the plug's grain running in the same direction as the plank's grain (to prevent the plug working loose as would tend to occur when the wood and the plug otherwise swelled in different directions.) The purpose of the plugs is to minimize corrosion and to permit sanding the deck fair and clean now and again ("holystoning.")

 

Plank fastening is done with wooden fasteners ("trunnels.") Trunnels have their grain running the length of the trunnel and are often of a different species, frequently locust in the time period discussed here. Given that the end grain of a trunnel is exposed at the plank surface and often is of a darker colored wood, they can appear somewhat more visible than the fastening plugs, which show their face grain at the surface and are nearly invisible.

 

In "real life," the hull and deck planking will be painted an opaque color, or oiled, which eventually results in a near-black color, so the trunnels will not be visible unless the hull planking is bare, as it would be when the vessel was under construction. 

 

These facts apply to appearances "up close" on the prototype vessel. A model depicts what the viewer would see from a scale distance. The scale distance is the distance a viewer would have to stand away from the prototype vessel to see the same scope of the vessel he sees when viewing the model. In other words, "How far back to you have to stand to see the whole vessel from stem to stern?" At scale distance, detail is lost (and colors tend to fade with gloss nowhere to be seen.) At scale distance deck fastener plugs are invisible and black deck seam stopping barely visible. At scale distance, even bare hull planking trunnels will be barely visible, if at all. 

 

Exaggerated depictions of fastenings, plugs, treenails, and deck seam stopping, not to mention over-scale coppering tacks and plates, are affectations embraced by some modelers for reasons I don't entirely understand. This is particularly so in cases where plugs and trunnels are colored black to accentuate their appearance, an occurrence that never existed on any prototype vessel anytime or anywhere. Where real pegging is employed to fasten model planks to frames, the same wood material should be used and the pegs faired to the planking surface if the wood is to be left unpainted. That practice will depict the scale trunnels accurately as to color and they will be barely visible. When such practice is followed, it is essential that all pegs are placed in the same positions as would be the case with the prototype vessel, i.e. at proper scale distance from each other running over beams and frames at locations accurate to the original vessel. Note that the second picture you have posted above is of a modern era faux laid deck without fasteners or plugs, being instead laid down in adhesive, frequently epoxy, as a veneer over a substrate, frequently metal, plywood, or fiberglass, and not relevant at all to the present discussion of traditional wood construction practices. Particularly, the layout of the decking pieces around the base of the winches and fittings is a pure fantasy which glaringly clashes with what appears to be an otherwise beautifully done traditional-looking yacht. Such oddities have no place on a traditionally built, or built-to-appear-traditional, vessel and, where encountered, are the mark of an owner with more money than knowledge.

[Bob Cleek]

53 minutes ago, juhu said:

I saw examples of margin plank being composed from butt joined pieces as well as more refine scarf join. But I could not find any info on how long would each piece of margin plank be. Also, margin plank joints are very seldom to be visible in available pics.

 

I believe you are actually referring to coverning boards, not margin planks. Covering boards are simply as long as the wood stock available to the builders at the time. Because they curve the length of the vessel, wood of sufficient width doesn't exist.  As you accurately mentioned, covering board joints may be butted or scarfed, generally depending on the "fit and finish" of the vessel. Joints aren't caulked. Their faying surfaces are payed with bedding compound and they are fastened together using butt blocks, scarf wedges, or whatever other method is appropriate to the connection method used. Those seams should be barely visible under any circumstances, although, in the case of a butt, the butt would usually be beveled to form a caulking seam and the seam caulked and payed in the same manner as the adjoining deck seams.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Bob Cleek

[juhu]

Thank you Bob for your answer. Very good hints, particularly the "scale distance", I will try to take it into account as much as I can.

Indeed, overdoing some details beyond the "scaled" visibility often makes model looking more detailed and more  precisely build, disregarding how far it matches the reality. Something similar to be often seen in case of weathering plastic model kits for example