Lowell Grand Banks Dory by Flying Submarine - Model Shipways - 1/24 scale

[Flying Submarine]

Hi!

I'm yet another first-time boat builder who picked the Dory to start with. I've done some plastic modelling before and thought this would be a nice change of pace - Having to shape the pieces seems like an interesting challenge!

Almost immediately I messed up! After removing the bottom planks, I tried to trim off a tab left over from the sprue (Not really a sprue, I suppose, but I don't know if it has a proper name) in the same way I would with plastic by slicing it off with my knife. But of course wood splinters, so I was left a hole in the bottom of the boat. Which, so I'm told, is one of the worst place to have a hole in your boat. Any advice on how to cut the pieces out would be helpful!

I reasoned I could fill this later so I didn't use the provided single-piece bottom and carried on. I'm not surewhy but the fore end of the planks didn't quite come together, but again I could fill this so I wasn't too worried. What possibly have happened is that the planks seem to have a slight bevel, but I didn't realise this and sanded at a right angle, so I might have completely took off the sharp edge of the bevel. This might have also lead to some uneven glueing, as the whole bottom was warped after the glue dried, but this might've from me getting it too damp while removing the excess glue. I fixed this by getting it damp again, and leaving it under a stack of books overnight.

The finished bottom

The next session started with filling the gaps, which worked out fine I think, before making the bottom cleats.

 

I'm fairly sure I overdid the chamfer here, as in pictures in other build logs and the instructions I can barely see one at all, but I like how it looks so I'm not too bothered. I'm also not sure if I was supposed to chamfer the short edges - The instructions don't specify but do say that all sharp corners are rounded off for safety reasons so I decided to do them. I do have a question about this - Does this ever other internal piece need a chamfer? Logically I would think so, but the instructions don't mention it again. There's a lot of other pieces that would leave 90 degree angles if left alone, but as I said I'm struggling to see a chamfer even on the bottom cleats, so I can't tell just from looking at the pictures if I should do them.

Anyway I've been having fun with it - Definitely makes a fun change from plastic!

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Flying Submarine

[druxey]

In reality, any sharp edges and corners were chamfered for safety. For a 'first build' this detail is optional. Good for you to include it!

[Flying Submarine]

Okay that makes sense, thanks!

I went ahead and chamfered the stem and stern, trying to be a bit more subtle.

I found it very difficult to keep the flat faces square while sanding, even when using the technique shown in the instructions. Keeping an even pressure on the piece while sanding is something I need to practice! It turned out okay though, and they look more-or-less vertical. I did also have trouble glueing the transom on - It fell off a few times before the glue dried, and I think that the residue on the pieces dried into a smooth surface which made further gluing attempts difficult. In the end I had to use superglue which is why it looks a little messy, but I can sand off the excess once it's dried.

I also didn't get the holes on the transom and stern cleat quite aligned. I used toothpicks to try and align them, but I guess they didn't fit well enough. It's not too much of a problem as it's very difficult to see, and will be even harder to see once the rope is through it. Worse case scenario I can drill it out suppose?

It looks much worse in this picture than in person.

 

Here it is so far. It's currently sitting on the windowsill having the bottom shaped as my workstation is actually in front of my PC so I have to pack everything up when I'm done for the day 😅 This works fine when doing plastic models, but I've noticed my keyboard starts playing up after working on this until I blast it with an air duster. I can only assume the wood dust is getting at it... Might have to start putting a sheet over it!

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Flying Submarine

[Flying Submarine]

Before starting work on the frames I had to adjust the stern. I had glued on the knee to be in-line with the etched mark, even though this left it sticking out over the back. I assumed that this was intentional but after looking at the plans and other builds, I don't think it is. So I swabbed it with some 'glue remover' I have (Looking at the label it looks like it's just white spirit and alcohol) for a few nights and it came away very cleanly with a bit of gentle prying.

Before

And after
 

Then I started on the frames. The instructions have a guide to place them on, but I found that it didn't quite align - The frame spacers were a slightly different shape to the printed ones, misaligning the frames themselves if I tried to keep them within the outline. In the end I ignored the the print and place the bottom of the frames against a square to keep them straight.

You can see how the bottoms are not parallel when I tried to keep them within the lines


This got it all aligned but then I was a bit of an idiot and managed to superglue the frame to my mat without realising, and broke it when I went to pick it up.

Luckily I'd already gotten some experience un-glueing things with the stern, so again with some glue remover and some prying I was able to free the broken piece and glue it all back together.

All patched up.

I did also manage to snap the tip off frame 2 while sanding the inside face, but it was a clean break that glued back together nicely. The other frames were fuss-free and soon I had them all done and the bevels sanded.

 

The instructions say to sand until the char just disappears, so I think I overdid it a little - Frames 1 and 2 looked as if they'd been sanded flat (The char removed isn't wider on one side) so I gave them a little extra just to make sure, and then did 5 and 4 again to keep it even. I am also unsure if the instructions to sand them "By 3's" meant doing 5/4/3 and 3/2/1 only, or if 4/3/2 also needs doing. Doing 4/3/2 seemed redundant to me so I didn't - Hopefully it's not a critical step that I've missed!

 

After testing the bottom on, I realised that it wasn't fitting properly because it was slightly too short for the stem and stern guides on the building board, so I had to chisel out the stem's hole a little bit. Even so the planks between frame 1 and 2 looks slightly off I'm unsure if it's the bevel being too flat or if it's because it has the hole that I filled in, and so isn't bending in quite the same way. Either way it's hardly noticable and I think it'll be fine once the side planks are on.

So after all that - The bottom is finally glued in place on the frames. I must say that after shaping a piece with water, and then placing it onto pieces that I've sanded by hand, and having it fit well - feels like black magic! Here's hoping the side planks are so easy!

 

 

[druxey]

Well, you are getting into the learning experience, aren't you? Is there a reason you would use CA rather than PVA white glue?

 

If the instructions suggest something maybe there is a reason for it; such as beveling only until the char just disappears.

Edited January 30, 2022 by druxey

[Flying Submarine]

13 hours ago, druxey said:

Well, you are getting into the learning experience, aren't you? Is there a reason you would use CA rather than PVA white glue?

 

If the instructions suggest something maybe there is a reason for it; such as beveling only until the char just disappears.

 

I found that the PVA wasn't giving a completely rigid join, and as the joint between the frame and spacer doesn't need to be neat as it gets cut off later, I tried to reinforce it with a dab of superglue. I had to do the same on frame 1, but the others were fine with just PVA. I could be I'm just not used to to PVA as with plastic models the cement works almost immediately, so I'm used to putting a very small amount on but still having a very quick and firm bond. I deliberaly put what felt like 'too much' glue onto the frames to stick the bottom planks on, and there was still very little squeezing out of the joint.

I did try to bevel until the char disappeared but as I said I wasn't sure about the angle on the forward frames, so I gave it a little extra just to be sure. I'm actually having the same problem sanding the side of the frames, and I'm a bit stuck on how to proceed. As before the instructions say to lightly sand until the char disappears, but the char on the frames has disappeared much more quickly than that on the stem, bottom planks, and transom.

You can see frame 1 has quite an aggressive bevel (I have checked and planks still fit it so it's not ruined... yet) but the stem is far from done. I'm unsure if sanding the stem on its own is a good idea, as then the bevel might not align with the frames.

Similarly the bottom planks are also possibly not finished - I don't know if it needs a complete bevel to remove the char or if it's okay as-is. As with the stem, I can't really sand it without also sanding the frames.


Same thing again at the transom. It definitely needs some work around the knee as test-fitting planks leaves a small gap but I don't know about the rest.

I could keep going until they're finished, but I'm worried that will leave the frames overdone and the planks won't fit properly, or they'll just look very spindly. On the plus side the shape of the bevels seems very good, and there's no gaps (other than the one at the stern knee) so I'm otherwise pretty happy with how it's gone so far.

[druxey]

It looks pretty good in your photos. One way to sand frames without sanding the transoms (or vice versa) is to glue sandpaper only on one half of the flexible sanding stick.

[Flying Submarine]

Thanks! It seems so obvious in hindsight... 🤦‍♂️

I finished bevelling the stem and it's looking pretty good. I've been unable to fix the area around the stern knee as I can't figure it out. It looks as if the bottom plank is pushing the edge of the garboard plank too far out, but I sanded it down and it didn't have much effect. I deliberately exaggerated the gap in this photo just to show - When properly clamped together, it's just a thin line between the transom and garboard.

In any case, I wanted to avoid over-sanding the area and ruining the curve so I decided to leave it be and work on the garboards. I was a bit worried about the rolling bevels as it's very small and hard to see by eye, but I found that using my 45 degree sanding stick and progressively sanding more and more towards the end gave a nice result so I'm pleased with it. I gave it a quick test by placing the bevelled edges of the garboards together and it seemed okay  so I long as I can do the same with the other planks then it should be good!  I then wetted and bent the garboards which has also gone pretty well, even if I found it a bit finicky to set up. I saw the softened planks were bending to fit the small gap at the stern which I thought might have solved the problem, but then I noticed it gives it an unattractive U-shape to the plank when looking at the stern so I've done my best to keep it straight and I'll probably just fill the gap once they're glued on.
 

[SaltyNinja]

It's looking good! I'm going to order this kit series as well and give it a shot. I'll follow your progress and try to see if I can do as well as you are FlyingSub.

[druxey]

Wood will warp across the grain when damp. You should be able to correct this by clamping or using elastic bands and small blocks while gluing the plank end  firmly in place.

[DanB]

 

 

Hi. I built the Dory as my first model. I think yours is looking good. I think you have it right—just make the bevels so the planks fit together well and don’t worry about sanding off all the char. I recall being concerned about sanding off too much and distorting the edges of the planks. 

 

I try to avoid CA as much as possible. The PVA will give you more time to get things lined up. Just use lots of clamps and rubber bands as it sets up. It is also easier to clean up and keep things neat with a damp brush to wipe off the excess. Best of all is for me is being able to unglue my mistakes with a bit of alcohol and a lot of patience. 

 

Dan

 

[Don Quixote]

I'll certainly be following this log as I just started mine:)

[Flying Submarine]

Thanks for the comments Some useful info and I'm surprised to see so many people following!

So you might be a bit disappointed to learn I had a small disaster last week - While attempting to fit the first garboard plank, I managed to break one of the frames into 3 pieces. I was getting a snug fit by spreading my fingers along the plank's length and pressing it onto the frames, when I unwittingly placed my thumbs against a frame on the opposite side and 'pinched' my hands together, which caused the frame to break under my thumbs. Obviously a very silly thing to do, and I've learned to be much more careful of exactly what I'm doing with my hands in the future. (Although I'm horrendously clumsy at the best of times anyway, so I'll have to wait and see just how well I've learned that lesson...)

This picture doesn't show the small piece that connected the two ends visible.

I had a difficult time glueing it back together. In hindsight, it would have been best to take a break and come back to it, because my frustration at myself led to me being a bit of a hamfisted neanderthal, and I think the joins are definitely the worse for it.


It's certainly very ugly to look at, and you can see it hasn't gone back quite right. I did try and correct this, but I cannot physically get that last join aligned. Either I've gotten too much glue in there, or the wood changed shape when it broke. The drawing on the card is from me checking that it's at the correct angle (I needed it there for the camera to focus properly). It's a little imprecise but there's maybe only a degree or two difference between the frames, and it doesn't stand out as being obviously wrong when I look at it, so I think it's okay? It is at least completely square with the other frames so I might leave it be and carry on - I could un-glue it and try again but I feel like that's asking for more trouble. The top gets cut off anyway, so the only potential problem is the angle which as I said, doesn't seem that off.

Your thoughts on the angle?

You have probably noticed that there's no garboard in that picture. Apparently, it isn't symetrical and does in fact get slightly wider at one end. Looking at the plans, it seems the wide end goes to the stem. Naturally, I had glued it to the stern. Also naturally, I only noticed after fussing with the broken frame, so the glue had already set. A bit of glue remover and work and I got them off fairly easily - The bottom plank split in a couple of places but I avoided it getting bad by skipping over the area and coming at it from the other direction. The splits are very small and close themselves so they're not a cosmetic problem, and I put some diluted PVA over them which seems to have secured them. In my defence, I double checked the intructions after and it doesn't mention it, and the difference between the two ends is very small so I think it's easy to miss. The other planks are also slightly asymetric but the the cap rails have a very obvious fore end which lines up with the fore ends of the planks so, now that I've noticed, it should be easy to get the other ones on the right way around.

Now that the disaster clean up has been done, I guess it's time for a second attempt to but the garboards on

 

[Don Quixote]

Model shipways will replace the parts for free. Just send them a contact and give them the kit name and part number.

 

Anyone know what color the deck is supposed to be? Or for you feriners should I say colour?

[DanB]

Hi. You could get another sheet of parts from Model Expo. If you sill have the carrier sheet you, you could create a new frame from scrap wood. You could use the laser cut out to get roughly the shape and then sand it to match the plans. You could also just use the plans to make a copy. Be patient with the alcohol to unglue, It takes a while for it to work and you may have to apply it a few times. Make sure to soak the planks well-- 5 minutes or more in warm water before your try to bend and attach them to the model. Once they dry completely, the shape is pretty close and it is much easier to glue them in

Edited February 19, 2022 by DanB

[clewless]

2 minutes ago, DanB said:

Hi. You could get another sheet of parts from MSW. If you sill have the carrier sheet you, you could create a new frame from scrap wood. You could use the laser cut out to get roughly the shape and then sand it to match the plans. Be patient with the alcohol to unglue, It takes a while for it to work and you may have to apply it a few times. Make sure to soak the planks well-- 5 minutes or more in warm water before your try to bend and attach them to the model. Once they dry completely, the shape is pretty close and it is much easier to glue them in

You sound like my wife. Be careful with the alcohol

[Don Quixote]

You shouldn't be surprised by the number of followers. I'm a member of several forums, mostly computer geek stuff but I have never seen a forum that rivals MSW's member base! The hobby rocks! The program that is used is THE best! I use it myself for a private site for my City. Google works on the bases of the content. Ask google how to plank a ship and the most information, responses, and content will come from MSW. Because the keywords planking a hull is most often asked  and answered. And the answers are most answered by the THOUSANDS of members here. Read that, the popularity of the hobby and the site. And the size of the number of users. How did you stumble across MSW? For me, I was trashing the hull of the Constitution. I googled "How to plank a wooden model ship." Google gave me more than 10 answers. ALL from MSW. Because of the number of comments, answers and responses by the great and many people here at MSW.

 

I joined and noticed that there were people from across the world! I knew I was over my head with the Constitution so I asked what were the best documented, easiest, smart ships to start with. Some jerk told me it was a "silly" question. I was like, foul language, foul language! #Mtaylor chastised the jerk and told him there was no such thing as a stupid question. So I stuck around. I almost quit the hobby because of him. Then I got so many responses from caring people that also love the hobby.

 

I HATE to type! My fingers are short enough you know? But I see that I have posted over 1,500 times! I ask about the recommended scroll saws, jewelers drill presses, I learned about Serving machines and found the best tools (In my not in the least bit humble opinion) were from a dude that moved from Russia to Poland that makes the best.  https://www.shipworkshop.com/ There are over 41,400 people on this site. More than a few have built the same ship:) ALL of them have build logs you can follow and learn from. Just like I'm following yours as I build this ship.

 

I started with the Constitution. $400. A lot of bondo on the hull, I tied all the rigging... Looked great until my wife got a kitten. Then I got the Niagara, more bondo, tried to do the rigging right, failed horribly... Asked more questions and as you can see from my signature I've learned a bit. Reading MSW. Asking questions and getting answers.

 

Check out "shore leave." them old jokes, what have you done today... You have now made friends from across the world! I live in the central valley of California. PLEASE update your profile to tell us about yourself. Where do you live? Tell us about yourself in the introduce your self section. Hundreds of users will check you out to learn about you.

 

I could go on, I love this forum so much.. If I may offer a word of caution and a bit of advice... Set aside a budget. Not for the cost of the models, that's your problem. I'm talking tools. And figure about 10 times as much time on this forum than the time you'll spend building your models.

 

Welcome aboard a ship full of seaman. Did I spell that right?

[SaltyNinja]

I wonder if you could just make a knee (?) or brace to place adjacent to the break in the frame. If you want it to be as new, then you would want to replace the frame I suppose, but you could do a repair and model it as such. These were well used and abused fishing boats and repairs surely happened I would think?

 

I'm starting mine today. I'm afraid to start, but I've got to. I'll probably end up doing it twice, but hopefully not.

[druxey]

If it's any consolation, your first model is bound to include many 'oopsies',. That is part of the learning process, as is correcting those oopsies. As mentioned, you can always ask for replacement parts. Also, consider using clips and elastic bands rather than using fingers to hold things while they glue.

[Flying Submarine]

Hi all, I got overwhelmed with work and then got covid (after avoiding it for so long...) so I couldn't do much for the past 2 months but I'm finally back at it.

I didn't buy directly from Model Shipways so I dunno if I could still order a replacement, but at any rate it seems to be okay without one.

On 2/19/2022 at 6:24 PM, SaltyNinja said:

I wonder if you could just make a knee (?) or brace to place adjacent to the break in the frame. If you want it to be as new, then you would want to replace the frame I suppose, but you could do a repair and model it as such. These were well used and abused fishing boats and repairs surely happened I would think?

That's a really neat idea! I'll see how it looks once all the side planks are on and if it's a bit wonky I'll probably do that. "Battle damage" is how I hide my mistakes with the tanks I've built too... 🤫

Anyway, the garboards are, finally, successfully installed!

They had quite a lot of overhang as you can see in these pictures:

I forgot to take a picture but the rubber bands also pulled them a little too low in the middle, causing a small v-shaped dip, hence all the putty in the next pictures.

 

Please excuse the pencil line down the middle - it was to make sure I didn't sand too far. Also that yellow pot in the background is a sticky putty for cleaning keyboards, which it isn't very good at, but I've found it super useful for picking up sanding dust

I need to clean up the putty (it dried must faster on the wood than I'm used to so I didn't wipe the excess off in time) and the large overhang at the stern that got sanded off means I'll have to touch up the rolling bevel but I'm pretty happy. The planks are fairly well aligned at the stem and stern (might sand a little to make them completely even but I'll see how it looks with the next set of planks on first) and everything else looks mostly symmetrical which, after how many frames I broke, seems like an good result to me. One thing I did find tricky is sanding the fore-end of the planks to match the slight curve of the stem. I'm being very cautious not to sand too far and start affecting the shape of the stem itself so it's still looking a bit flat at the moment. Might be an idea to wait until the other planks are on so that I can sand a curve along them all together? Anyway, now I just need to do that two more times. Fingers crossed!

Edited May 11, 2022 by Flying Submarine

[SaltyNinja]

Looking good! I'm going to make an effort to get back to work on mine. I have been distracted by work for a while now.

[RLindsey]

I am enjoying your log Flying Submarine and learning a lot.  My Dory should arrive by next week and I hope to get started on my own build soon.  I hope I am half as good at recovering from my mistakes as you are!  Good job so far.

[Flying Submarine]

On 5/15/2022 at 5:07 AM, SaltyNinja said:

Looking good! I'm going to make an effort to get back to work on mine. I have been distracted by work for a while now.

Just had a look at your build - Great job smoothing out the lines on the bow! I also had trouble aligning the planks so I might have to do something similar
 

 

On 7/6/2022 at 7:59 PM, RLindsey said:

I am enjoying your log Flying Submarine and learning a lot.  My Dory should arrive by next week and I hope to get started on my own build soon.  I hope I am half as good at recovering from my mistakes as you are!  Good job so far.

Thanks! Good luch with it. I find the wood is very forgiving, whenever I've broken a piece they've gone back together like a 3D puzzle. I don't know if it's a feature of the particular wood used in the kit but I'm thankful for it either way.


I got back to building about a month ago but nothing terribly exciting happened so I forgot to update, but the boat is now fully planked! Here's how it went.

 

The planking went okay, but I found that it was almost impossible to have them lined up at both the bow and stern at the same time. It was difficult to get a good picture of it, but essentially when the plank had its front end aligned with the angle of the stem, the entire plank was at the wrong angle and so at the stern end it was way too high and had a gap between it and the plank below. I'm not sure what the problem was or what the 'proper' way to fix it would be, so I had to just try and sand the rolling bevels and gently force the plank into the correct shape when glueing it to the frames.
The bevel between the final frame and the stern was a bit too much on my broad (middle) planks, which left a small gap that needed filling, and I found that none of the rolling bevels lined up exactly so I had to sand the outside of the ends to get that flush look. One good idea I had was to draw a line where the plank's overhang started, then apply the rolling bevel up to that line, which saved me having to touch it up once it was in place. You'll also see in the pictures that I've written on the planks to make sure I get them on the right way around.

I did have (another) small disaster - after the broad planks were on I had set it aside to dry overnight and I opened a cupboard door right into it. It looked okay at first but when I went to put on the sheer (top) planks the tip of the stem snapped off. Luckily, like the frames, it was easy enough to glue back on. There was also a dent in one of the planks but it swelled back into shape after applying water.

Sorry for the terrible quality of this picture, but I thought I'd show the odd shape which the sheer planks dried into - I tried to get clever and bend them both at the same time by clamping them to the model overnight but it didn't work out so well. I decided to experiment a little and glued one in place before correcting the shape and did the other one before glueing. The results were pretty much the same. All I did was apply a little bit of water to the top edge and hold it in roughly the correct shape while it dried (10-15 minutes or so seemed enough), and then the shape of the frames did the rest to encourage it into fixing itself.

You can see here how this plank is misaligned at the stem, if it was aligned here it was peeking off the top of the frame at the stern. The middle plank above it is also noticably skinny, I don't know if I sanded it too much or if it got a bit squashed by the clamp but I'm hoping the false stem will cover it up. I forgot to take a picture of the finished bow but it did sand and shape nicely. The sheer planks do get a little far apart at the very top but again, the false stem should cover it.

The stern looks pretty good, I think. There's tiny misalignments here and there but I can't imagine the amount of practice and skill it would take to get it exact, so I'm happy. That one plank hasn't been trimmed because I found that block got in the way when doing the other one. That block has been a bit loose the entire time and I'm wondering if maybe I should have secured it in place because the transom is apparently ever so sightly askew when looked at from the top, but again it's barely noticable so I'm not bothered.

All free from the supports, I think I've not done too badly! Interestingly a couple of the frames had unstuck from the support blocks at some point - It hasn't affected anything I was just a bit surprised.


I've not done any more work after cutting it from the supports, so the frame tops are still rough. Another thing I only noticed after freeing it, is that the planks leave a gap with the frame as they overlap with the next. At first I thought I'd done the bevel wrong but it's actually correct as far as I can tell.

All in all, I'm quite pleased and it was a very satisfying moment to finally see the boat actually looking like a boat!

Edited September 5, 2022 by Flying Submarine