English Pinnace by rudybob - Model Shipways - Scale 1:24

[allanyed]

Good for you ticking the frames for the planking!   I am impressed with the fact that the number of frames looks to be spot on for a 21 foot pinnace.  Kudos to Model Shipways!  Many other kits have oversized frames and far too few of them.

 

Can you tell us the sided and depth dimensions of the keel?   It is hard to tell from the photos. Regardless I realize it is what the kit provided.  See below with 1:24 scaled dimensions based on scantlings from May's Boats of Men of War  

 

Looking forward to the planking.  It seems to always be something of a challenge!

 

Thank you for sharing your build.

 

Allan 

[rudybob]

15 hours ago, allanyed said:

Good for you ticking the frames for the planking!   I am impressed with the fact that the number of frames looks to be spot on for a 21 foot pinnace.  Kudos to Model Shipways!  Many other kits have oversized frames and far too few of them.

 

Can you tell us the sided and depth dimensions of the keel?   It is hard to tell from the photos. Regardless I realize it is what the kit provided.  See below with 1:24 scaled dimensions based on scantlings from May's Boats of Men of War  

 

Looking forward to the planking.  It seems to always be something of a challenge!

 

Thank you for sharing your build.

 

Allan 

I measure .25 " along the entire keel length. 

 

I'm looking forward to planking also. I think I will do better....

[allanyed]

6 hours ago, rudybob said:

I measure .25 " along the entire keel length. 

Thank you Bob

I thought it looked quite a bit too large from the photos but was not sure.  Thanks for confirming.   I wonder if that could be corrected by modifying the kit material or making one's own keel, stem and post.  

Thanks again

Allan

[rudybob]

It's come down to this. I've ticked the hull on one side.

I can see where it would have benefits. I don't know how my seeing that it has merit will aid me in this build though. Quite the opposite in fact. The ticks need to be accurate. I spent time and made them as accurate as I can. When I lay a strake it is easy to see where my ticking is off as I was pretty certain it would be. The tick marks can be adjusted. Tape can be used to visualize the run of the strakes before actual attachment. The tape has to be pretty darn thin. On the Medway Longboat 3/64 of an inch strips were cut. I wonder if I can cut 3/64 in strips of anything let alone sticky tape. LOL. I have 1/8 inch tape which is 8/64. I can't cut that in half, straight and true, without some severe equipment. Well maybe but I would probably remove the stick from the tape then I would need glue. LOL. I'll leave that there for now. 

 

While I have been practicing and pondering the previous I got myself back into bending planks. Even the meager three or four months I spent last year has helped for what I am doing this year.

 

There are two main sources I am using to rise above my current understanding and skill level. One are the directions for the Medway Longboat the other is Blue Ensign's pinnace log. He does a superb job covering how he overcame his difficulties and he asked the right questions. 

 

For example ..."did you have to start the short bow curve well back in a longer length of strip to give you the leverage to form the bend?" 

The answer being "Yes indeed....it is impossible to bend that severe a curve on the end of the strip."

 

OK Now I know.

 

I tried it.  It helps. I slide the strake along until I found what gave me the best results to get that tight bow curve. Of course, I have extra strake at the bow that needs to be cut off and am going to have to figure where. It will take a few strakes to solve that. Then all that will need doing is a bend at the short end into the rabbet. Yea Sure .."all that needs doing."

It was suggested to Blue Ensign "...it is probably easier to find and spile the shape and then cut from a sheet." I am going to try that. Last year a huge obstacle was getting one curve good then losing it while I tried to make another. If the strip is cut spiled I could save some headache by working on only one curve in such a tight area. 

 

That's where I am at. More thinking and reading than doing but I do a little physical labor on the build daily, if I didn't I would think I putting it off. LOL

 

 

[rudybob]

I cut my first spiled plank. It will need some fine tuning. I wish I could write "LASER Cut" But I will write Xacto Cut. It felt good to go ahead and do it. Sure hope it fits

[rudybob]

Now that I have the spile it was time for a bend. I dampened the strake at the spile and slid the entire piece along the top of the bulkheads until I found what I thought was the correct spot to put the curve and then the cut to fit into the rabbet. That went fine but I still needed a twist for the final fit. I tried the bottle cap scheme but that was laughable. So, I dampened it and placed the end I had size snipped into the rabbet and clamped it there. I let it dry overnight and it turned out. That made me happy.  So that is some progress. I hope to repeat it for the other side. What I was looking to accomplish and did so on the top strake was to get it to lie FLAT in all it's twistyness. It does. Yahoo.

 

I've also sized and cut the garboard planks

 

While all that was going on I recalled that the bulkhead holders from my previous attempt had been poorly placed. They were to far in from the edge if I wanted to use them to clamp the strakes to after glue. I cut some thin ones and placed them what I hope turns out correctly. The bulkheads on this pinnace are so close I found it a super bugger trying to fit my clamps between some of them.

 

Kits come with pre-spiled strakes and the curve must be calculated and fed into the cutting device so there is a way to get a measurement because I don't think guys sit around doing the trial and ERROR method I use but I have yet to see that discussed. Is there a formula or a method taken from a plan? 

 

Slow progress is better than I will do it tomorrow progress. 

[allanyed]

1 hour ago, rudybob said:

the curve must be calculated and fed into the cutting device so there is a way to get a measurement because I don't think guys sit around doing the trial and ERROR method I use but I have yet to see that discussed. Is there a formula or a method taken from a plan? 

I am not sure what you mean on this so if the following makes no sense, my apologies.🙃

I assume you have studied the tutorial on spiling planks in the Articles Data base here at MSW.   Regarding full size ships there are planking expansion plans which MAYBE is what was done by the kit makers that provided pre-shaped planks for their ships and boats.  If you are spiling the planks every strake of course is a little different but at least there is no trial and error.  If you try to draw these out and make your own plank expansion plan like the one below, it may not work as well.  This one shows both internal and external planking.  I for one would be curious to see if you do give it a try and how well it works.

 

Allan

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by allanyed

[rudybob]

Thank you for your response. I don't understand the drawing but that's OK for now and one day I might. I have gone back to the document page and am going over them all again. Repetition of literature is good just like repetition of work

[rudybob]

I've known for sometime that the strake above the garboard should not creep to far up the bow. OK fine. I also knew that it has to follow the curve of the garboard and fit into the rabbet. OK fine. I also see where guys install the garboard in one of two ways. With the bow curve facing up (1) and the bow curve facing down(2). I did up (3) and had bow curve really bad as someone in my log commented though I didn't see it. 

 

I decided to flip the garboard on this rebuild. OK fine. To get the curve I needed for the strake above the garboard some severe edge bending was in order.  I read this: 

"By now you will realise that virtually all
the planking will need to be cut to shape,
as you cannot edge set a plank. Edge setting
means bending the plank sideways across
its width. If you try to do this, one edge of
the plank will lift off the frame and be im-
possible to attach. 

 

Well ya can't edge set without edge bending, eh ? Or can ya? I don't know. Maybe it means two completely different things.

Which meant I needed to cut a strake from a flat sheet already spiled. To get the spile I needed to edge bend a strake that followed the curve of the garboard. OK I tried that with heat (iron) too extreme a curve it broke. I wasn't going to toss that strake though. I just soaked it down, got my curve, clamped it down and ironed. I did all that close to the center of a 14 inch strip. All I needed was the curve. I traced the curve onto my sheet and there it sits until tomorrow when I will "laser" cut it out. That's a joke. I will use a X-acto and sandpaper.

The strake I edge bent to measure spile angle I fit to the frame. I needed to know...how I gonna do this, before I do it?  Well it turned into a good day. Not because it is exact but because my procedure worked for me. Can I reproduce it...That is the next question. 

I had long since lined off the hull. Last night I ran thread along the tics. What I saw today while fitting my second strake was that the lining off pretty much matches the curve on the strake. Seeing is believing.

I have read and heard, paraphrased...just get those two bottom and two top strakes on best ya can and tic from there.....
I'm thinking after I get the two garboard and two sheer strakes attached a re-tic is in order. I didn't know if I should tic 
into the rabbet or stop before it. I think into it but doing a re-tic will dump that problem and give me more practice. I'm looking forward to my next sessions on this brain breaking ball buster

[allanyed]

12 hours ago, rudybob said:

OK fine. I also see where guys install the garboard in one of two ways.

Take a look at some planking expansion drawings.  There are several of them on the RMG Collections site, including Squirrel.    You will see the shape of the garboard very clearly.  While this is for a ship, it applies to a boat as well.     https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83495  I believe there are some on the WikiCommons site as well and may be in high resolution.  

Allan

Edited January 31, 2023 by allanyed