US Brig Syren by rtropp - Model Shipways - 1:64

[rtropp]

Hi all,

I could use some help.  I am not sure I really understand when to use an eyebolt and when to use an eyebolt with a ring. I am using the inboard plan.  I thought it was when the icon was horizontal it signified and eyebolt and when vertical it called for an eyebolt with ring. 

Is that correct or is there another way of figuring it out?

 

Thanks

Richard 

[rtropp]

I have some more detail on fabricating the belaying pins.  Also a couple of changes.

 

The first change was to drill a hole in the center of a wood dowel to use in the tail stock instead of the foam piece.  It holds the work piece better.  I was concerned that the wood against wood rotation might cause some burning but had no problem. I could have worked without the tail stock support, but then I would only have been able to do one pin at a time.  With the support from the tail stock I could do three at a time.  Four was too much and the piece would bend interfering with the turning.

 

 

I used the foam to prevent the work piece from whipping around in the feed shaft.

 

I used the following diagram to work out the proportions.  I do not remember where I found it.  The fractions were part of the diagram showing the relationship between the various measures.  The  millimeters are my entries showing the actual measures for the Syren's belaying pins.  Since I was sure of the 1mm diameter of the lower pin (it came from the practicum and was indicated for the pin rail), I used it as the base measure and worked back to figure the remaining measurements. (taking measurements from the tiny brass pin was difficult.

 

As the diagram shows, the length can be divided into three equal parts.  I used a compass set at the one third to mark the segments on the work piece.  The first segment was the handle of the pin, the next two thirds were the lower section. I was able to work nine segments (3 pins) while keeping a stable work piece. I kept two small dividers at the required diameters to be able to constantly measure as I worked.  These three inch tools were a real help.  If anyone knows a source for more, especially if there are any that are smaller, please let me know.

 

I was having difficulty finding lathe chisels small enough to work the pins so I tried some of Flexcraft's smaller chisels. These worked very well.

 

I first rounded out the wood and brought it down to size using a gouge.

 

 

to shape the pin, I used their smallest gouge.

 

To bring the belaying pin to final shape and size I then used various files and sandpaper. Here is my tool layout.

 

The entire work area did not take up a lot of space.  I used a large piece of basswood as a base for the lathe to bring it closer to eye level. My back really started to ache after doing one or two :-)

 

One problem with this process and using the Proxxon wood lathe is the difficulty in maintaining consistency between pins.  Your pretty much free handing the cuts (even with the tool rest) and at that size it quite a task. I focused on the top part since it would be the most visible, and will try bring the length of the lower pin to size as I install them.

 

They are not as good as the supplied pins, but I have a sense of accomplishment having been able to make them. So, like the figure head, I will use them.

 

This experience has me getting closer to a purchase decision on the Sherline lathe which seems to be the lathe of choice by most of the folks at MSW. I would be curious to hear if, for this type of work, digital readouts would be worthwhile to get uniformity between pieces. 

 

thanks for all your comments and likes

Richard

 

[Gahm]

Richard, in my opinion the Sherline lathe is certainly one of the best-suited lathes for the type of work needed for ship modeling. It is also very complete and versatile in terms of having all the parts available needed for special tasks.  And a digital read out will be a big help to achieve consistency. However, you can achieve the same thing with cheap analog measurement devices mounted on the lathe at the right places. I am using a very cost efficient Taig lathe which I pieced together over the years and actually built me a lot of parts myself. A lathe is one of the devices which actually can "reproduce itself", which means once you have the basic parts you can make all parts needed for the lathe yourself. So in short: the Sherline lathe (and also their mill) is an excellent choice.

 

Thomas

[rtropp]

Thomas,

Thanks for the tip.

Do you know of any references, pictures or links that would show how to use analog measurement devices with a wood lathe? I am having some difficulty visualizing this.

 

Richard

[Gahm]

Hello Richard,

a traditional wood lathe typically is operated manually with wood chisels like you use your Proxxon lathe. I fully agree, having any measurement instruments built into the lathe is difficult to imagine. I was talking about the more sophisticated type of lathe like the Sherline you are thinking about. Here it is easy to either use digital read outs or analog ones. The difference is more in the cost and your preference of how to read the measurements. You can find a lot examples on any webpage selling lathe equipment, for example: 

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1593&category=1319044103

 

Thomas 

Edited April 10, 2016 by Gahm

[rtropp]

Thomas,

I understand.  I think I am getting closer to investing in a Sherline.  I will probably go with the DRO (digital readout). I am trying to decide which accessory package to get with it.  At this point, I dont want to overbuy, but might as well get what will be needed for the build.

 

Richard

[rtropp]

As an additional thought, I am going through some of the other builds to see what they seem to use most.

 

Richard

[JesseLee]

Hi Richard. I have been silently following along. I am trying to use a home made lathe made from my hand rill in my Syren build right now.  I'm having trouble getting anything to cut the spinning wood very well. Small files seem to do better than anything else for me.

 

Jesse

[rtropp]

Hi Jesse,

I follow your build log and saw the post about using the hand drill.  Before I had the Proxxon lathe I also used the hand drill. I had a rest similar to yours but added a tool rest which is necessary for lathe cutting.  Also I made sure that the block holding the end of the piece is fairly tight around the wood to prevent vibration.  It is near impossible to use gouges if the piece is vibrating too much.

 

The cutting tools need to be very sharp.  That's key. I have an inexpensive sharpening block that is made by Flexcut.  It has a number of shapes that  fit the various gouges and angles.

 

Before trying to lathe I did a lot of reading and U Tubing (U Tubing??? not really a verb but...oh well). It is important to use the gouges as you would in a full size lathe. That means a support / tool rest to hold the tool while working it.  The angle of the tool and position in relation the work piece is also important. U-Tube is a great source for learning how to use the lathe.  Any of them, full size or small, will have the same basic operating principles.

 

That said, I make extensive use of Files for the final shaping and smoothing.  I also take a final pass with very fine sanding twigs.

My process  to use the gouge to bring the piece to its maximum diameter.  Then I move to the smaller gouge to get things to final shape.  Finally, I go to work with files. I have sets in a number of grades and sizes, all small for modeling.  The sanding twigs do a great job of smoothing when the area is really narrow, like in the belaying pins.

 

It became a lot faster to use the micro gouges as lathe tool rather than rely on files alone.  

 

Richard

[rtropp]

I'm finally close to the end of the Inboard Bulwarks section of Chapter Eleven.Making the belaying pins and the ring bolts took some time.

 

I tried to add the ring bolts as follows:

 

This did not work out, the ring kept slipping.

 

So I altered my method.  I drilled a hole in a small flat sheet and with the eye of the bolt just at the level of the surface it was easier to manipulate the ring and close it.  

 

These pictures show some of the work on the inboard bulwarks.  Except for the belaying pin rails, none of it is permanently glued.  I may glue most of it but not the rings for the carronades. Given my inexperience when starting the build, I may need to move things around to better fit the carronades.  Also, not sure of my skill at tying off the gun ropes so may need to tie them off, then glue to bulwark.  

 

 

I painted the rails and the cleats before attaching.  I also inserted a small pin in each to strengthen it when glued.  When cutting previous eye bolts to size I saved the cut off and that's what I used.

The will have to be retouched but I figure that will be easier than trying to paint them after attaching.

 

 

I have mounted some of the belaying pins to see how they would look.  Not too terrible for home made.  There is some inconsistency in size but I will try to match similar ones on the same rail so they don't look too out of place.  I made enough for the bulwark pin rails so I will need to make more anyway.  I can always replace the ones that look really our of place and I would really rather use the ones I made even if those supplied are "prettier" or more consistent.

 

 

I am now working on the block that ties to the traveler.  Boy are those tiny.  I had this device from model expo to round out the edges.  It works pretty well but I think it needs finer sandpaper.

 

I also reamed the holes a bit to clean it up.  I used a satin poly to finish it up. now I have to rig it.

 

 

I had a couple of questions:

Did anyone finish these differently?

Which supplied threads did you use to strop... did you serve or just tie it off?

What type of glue did you use to attach the eye bolts, etc to the bulwark?

 

Thanks

Richard

Edited May 1, 2016 by rtropp

[_SalD_]

Nice work Richard,  hard to tell from the picture but make sure you have enough room behind the belaying pin to get the rigging line in between the pin and the bulwarks when you tie off the line.

 

 

I had a couple of questions:

Did anyone finish these differently?  I let them soak for a few minutes in Minwax wipe on ploy, clear satin and then made sure the holes were not blocked after they dried. 
 

Which supplied threads did you use to strop... did you serve or just tie it off?  the 0.012" thread and seized it around the traveler but didn't serve the line.

What type of glue did you use to attach the eye bolts, etc to the bulwark?   I used medium ca with a 5-10 second drying time to give me some time position it correctly.  They have thicker ca which will give you 10 -20 seconds.  I also placed all the eye bolts in the holes prior to gluing them to make sure they fit, then took one out added the glue and replaced it in the hole.

[rtropp]

Sal,

Thanks for the tip about spacing the belaying pins.  I removed and remade one of the pin rails.  A lot easier to do now than discovering this later.

I followed your lead and soaked the parts in Minwax poly.  They look nice.  

I still have not glued the eyebolts or cleats. Earlier inexperience has built in some errors and I am not sure if I should wait to glue, or just deconstuct if there is a problem.  

 

Richard

[rtropp]

Its been a long time and I felt I should post something.

I have been working on making wood carronades.  I went through a number of different attempts but making templates to use as cutters did not work. making them on a wood lathe by hand seems to work better.  I went through a bunch of wood developing skills for uniformity.  I thought it would be similar to making the belaying pins but the variance in the thickness of different parts was much more noticeable.  So, I few feet of boxwood later I seem to be getting the hang of it.

 

I spend more time stopping and measuring than actually cutting.  But, they are getting better.

 

 

 

I have been experimenting with painting but was covering the detail.  I read the experience of others using multiple thin coats rather than one thick coat and might try that. But in the meantime I decided to go a different route and use wood dye.  With two or three dips, drying between dips, and then a thin coat of poly they look pretty nice to me.  But, I will continue to experiment. the picture below is an early attempt and i am hoping that the newer carronades have sharper detail which should help the dye job look better.

 

The tools are the same mixture I used on the belaying pins and work pretty well.

 

I ordered a set of PSI micro lathe tools (LCAN8MD) but it only took one day to sent them back. The sizes were great but the quality was awful. I could have sharpened out the nicks but when a sliver of brass from the ferrule drew blood I packed them up. (It is the sharp end that is supposed to cut :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Richard

[Gahm]

Beautiful work, Richard! Doing one piece from scratch, such as a carronade, clearly is not easy. However, trying to make 16 matching pieces is quite a challenge! But it looks like you are up to meeting this challenge very nicely!

 

Thomas

[JesseLee]

They are looking very good Richard. Still working on mine. I can tell by yours that I don't have the best wood.

 

Jesse

[rtropp]

Jesse,

your cannon look good.  they are part of what inspired me to try to make my own in wood.  

 

Are you using basswood?  I gave up on it and started using boxwood.  I bought a number of boxwood "planks" and milled them down to the sizes I needed.  I originally intended to use up the basswood for anything painted, but it does not carve cleanly.  

 

Part of the look is the use of very fine files and I have also been using three grades of sanding sticks which are very narrow and do a nice job on the finishing. The hardest part was developing a light touch.  

 

I have been using a lot of wood.  I went through about 20 cannon while practicing and still average 2 out of three that are near acceptable.  Also, I have not put the detail into the barrel rings that you have.  I just kept ruining them so, getting impatient, I just went for the flat look.  I intend to make a number of extras so that when cleaning up the breach ring and adding the bottom piece, I have room for mistakes.

 

 

 

That said... your cannon look pretty good.

[JesseLee]

I really don't have much inventory of choice woods so I just used whatever wooden dowels I had laying around. I have no idea what kind of wood they are but like you many unacceptable ones are laying around. For the rings I just stuck an exacto blade up to them while they were on the lathe. Touched up with a mini tringle file that has a very thin sharp edge.

 

Jesse

[rtropp]

Hi all,

I have been absent for awhile so just a quick note.  My build has been put of for awhile. I have not been visiting other sites.  I no longer receive emails of updates and that was my primary method of interacting with the various builds.  I do not, as a habit, go to this site and then cruise around trying to find updates.  That just does not seem to work for me. I have visited the thread about email update problems and it seems that there is no resolution.  I have only experienced the problem with this site so really not sure why it can't be reconstituted.  I have tried various email addresses from two different providers and no luck.

 

I do miss the interactions but it is what it is.

 

Richard