bowsprit shroud

[Peanut6]

I'm aware that the top deadeyes get seized twice.  Does that also go for the bowsprit shroud, or they only seized once?  Thank you in advance for your reply.

[TBlack]

Kev,

I'm not sure what you mean by "seized twice". Do you mean is the shroud wrapped around the deadeye and then seized just at the deadeye and then farther up the 

shroud? And, of course, there are no shrouds at the bowsprit, just stays and no deadeyes.

Tom

[Peanut6]

Tom, yes to your question, "seized twice" meaning once at the deadeye and again farther up the shroud.  Sorry I wasn't clear and using the incorrect terminology in my question.  BTW, this is regarding my Jolly Boat build.  Let me try again, would the bowsprit stays, without deadeyes, be seized once at the bowsprit or once at the bowsprit and a second time farther up?  

[popeye2sea]

Kev,

At the risk of answering the wrong question, The line that runs from the mast head to the bowsprit is call the fore stay (this is the line I mentioned to you in your other thread). For the shrouds, the top deadeye gets two and sometimes three seizings around the shroud. The first is called a throat seizing and it goes where the two parts of the shroud cross above the dead eye. The second is called the middle seizing and it is a round seizing. The third is called the end seizing also of the round seizing type, and comes at or near the end of the shroud.  The very end of the shroud would also be whipped to prevent unlaying.

 

The stay, where it comes down to the bowsprit will be attached in some fashion to a collar that is seized around the bowsprit with either a heart, a deadeye, or a block seized in.  The lower end of the stay will have the corresponding heart etc. seized in. A laniard will be passed between the two fittings to set up (tension) the stay.  Depending on which fitting you use will determine the type and number of seizings required. If you use a dead eye it will be seized in in the same manner as the shrouds. A heart or a block would probably only have two seizings.

 

A lot of terminology, I know, but it will become familiar soon enough.  

 

Regards,

[allanyed]

Peanut,

As you are talking about the launch, not the ship, keep in mind the launch was more often powered by oars.  The masts on boats were stepped and rigged on a temporary basis so rigging had to accommodate this need for temporary duty yet be seaworthy.   Look at photos of contemporary models that are rigged.  There is at least one really good photo in the RMG Collections site that may be of some help.  https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66291  This same model is explained in some detail regarding the rigging in W. E. Mays book The Boats of Men of War on page 93.   It is not high resolution but hopefully useful and you can purchase a high res version if you need one.  There may be more plans and models available to study on the RMG site for which you can do a search.  I would trust these before modern drawings that you might be using unless the ones you have are based on contemporary sources.  

Allan

Edited April 28, 2022 by allanyed

[Peanut6]

Henry, thank you for the information.  My AL Jolly Boat does not make any accomidations for what you have described nor do I have the materials or desire to go to that extent in creating them.  The instructions just show a single stay seized just ahead of the bowsprit support and the plans show the other stay seized near the bowsprit tip.  Knowing this is a ficticious boat, I was just wanting to kinda' split the difference by adding some historical accuracy to some of the features which I know to be incorrect (the boom tackle situation, per the instructions, being one of them).  Thanks again for your input, it is greatly appreciated, and will be remembered for my future builds.

[Roger Pellett]

Terminology:  lines running fore and aft from points on masts to the deck or the bowsprit are called stays; eg.  Fore Stay- Usually runs from the fore mast head to the head of the stem.

 

Lateral bending forces applied to the bowsprit are sometimes restrained by lines port and starboard running from the bowsprit tip to attachment points on either side of the bow.  These would be called bowsprit guys or bowsprit shrouds.

 

The fore stay would be attached to the stem head.  In larger boats a deadeye would be turned into the bottom end of the stay.  Just like the shrouds supporting the masts this deadeye would be secured with two seizings.  The lanyards would go from the holes in the deadeye to holes drilled through the stem head.  The jib shaped fore sail would ride on the fore stay.

 

The jib, a different sail, would be set from the bowsprit.  The tack of the jib would be secured to a ring around the bowsprit called a traveler that could me moved back and forth along the bowsprit.  This allowed the jib to be set and retrieved without a man out on the bowsprit.  It also minimized the chance that when dropping the jib it would be dumped in the water and drawn under the boat.  The jib on these boats was usually set “flying,” the luff did not ride up and down on a fixed stay.  There would be no standing rigging supporting the bowsprit.

 

The longboat and the launch that replaced it in later years were the largest (in cubic capacity) of the ship’s boat outfit.  As such it was assumed that these large boats would need to be capable of making extended voyages under sail.  Their rig was, therefore, relatively complicated.  Your jolly boat was the smallest boat carried.  As Allan says it was principally a row boat that could make short trips under sail.  Whatever rigging it had would have been as simple as possible.   It could have just been rigged with a single lug sail carried by a mast unsupported with shrouds or stays.  If the boat also had a headsail, attaching the tack to the stem head would have eliminated the need for a bowsprit.

 

Roger

[allanyed]

Kev,

Roger brings up a great point that was addressed in an earlier post here at MSW that you and other folks may or may not have seen.  According to the Pitcairn Island Studies Center, Bounty carried three boats.  Her jolly boat was leaky and could not be used and her cutter was too small for the 19 men that wanted to leave the ship, thus they used the 23 foot launch for Bligh and the other 18 men.   The kit design and the contemporary design of a launch have differences.  The below is a more detailed drawing of a 23 foot launch that was posted previously.  It is based on several sources of contemporary information.   The PDF is more clear once opened than the jpg, but both are below.  Note that the anchor handling davit in the stern was not permanently in place thus was likely not on board during her famous voyage.

Allan

 

 

23 Foot Launch circa 1795.PDF

Edited April 29, 2022 by allanyed

[Peanut6]

Roger and Allan, thank you very much for the education.  Very easy to see the consistency in teminology, once you get it explained in a straight forward manner.  Greatly appreciated.