BOUNTY by samueljr - Mamoli - refit

[samueljr]

Jay,

 

I am anxious as well to see. I ordered 1 each of every color. I am a die hard old time Floquil enamel Classic Marine and Railroad paint guy. I am pissed that Testor's is discontinuing the line(s). I ran out and bought all I could of the colors I use.

 

Should have a BOUNTY update tomorrow night.

 

Sam 

[samueljr]

Hi Everybody,

 

 

Decided to update a little sooner and a little differently. Here's where I'm at with BOUNTY.

 

Let's talk scale against AOS first.

 

The previous builder along with Mamoli (have to give them some credit) are not too bad. It is where I figured it would be. Some things are spot on and some are off with out cause. I thought I might give a listing of every item (or just the majors) but I've found my self a little lazy today. I'll discuss scale as I address each item in the refit. It's easier that way. It will allow me the chance to illustrate what I'm doing at each step a bit clearer I think.

 

My "plan of attack" - I decided to strip the entire rig off. The rig was done fairly well with a selection of line sizes but as with most of the details the builder attempted they lacked a certain "finesse" that can only be achieved (hopefully) over time and with experience. My hat is off to him though as he included a lot of details. I'll convert the sizes given in AOS and use Syren Ship Modeling Company blocks and line. Boy am I giving Chuck a lot of business. I know I said that before but it bears saying again!.................

 

For the bulk of the ship  the process will be generally removal of elements. Repaint and in some very rare instances replace with a more appropriate scale item. There are a few construction "things" I want to look at but they'll be easier to address once she's stripped. 

 

Once stripped I'm going to run off the lines from AOS against the ship and see if there is anything that jumps out. I've got my eye on two things which I'll talk about as they come to the fore front.

 

Two things I am running through my head as I type are the stern and the quarter badges. Both were scratched built and both will be replaced. I have the cast pieces from Mamoli and they suck - (sorry).

 

I am intrigued by the advent of 3-D printing and am considering having the stern and badges done with 3-D. I will be looking into it.

 

I've ordered and received Admiralty paints already so we're off...........

 

I've decided to show her with sails..........................LOL!!!! not a chance!!!

 

 

[Jay 1]

The fun's begun! Great start, Sam; sounds like you have a solid POA for the refit. I'm not too up on the Bounty; if I understand correctly, there were two sets of Admiralty plans for the ship? Which does the AOS use? I thought I read in the forum (perhaps it was elsewhere) that many kits, like the Mamoli one, were more or less based on the first version Admiralty plans--does that sound right? A zillion questions...sort of want to get my bearings.

 

I'm intrigued about the 3-D printing, so am hoping that works out for the refit. From what I've read about it, the technology is both fascinating and remarkable.

 

I hear ya about Floquil, no idea why Testors dropped the line... Maybe they'll sell the rights (fingers crossed), as it was nice paint to work with and the colors they offered were excellent. I've been doing a lot with Tamiya's acrylics lately, mixed reviews, so I'm looking forward to hearing your reviews of the Admiralty stuff--btw, will you be hand or airbrushing with it or both?

 

And I'm not sayin' jack about the s-things: my lips are sealed! Lol

 

Jay

[samueljr]

Jay,

 

Thanks Jay. I'm excited. The previous builder didn't do a bad job and should be commended for his efforts. Like I said the execution of details were just kinda' "heavy handed" at times. I'll continue to check scale and make corrections were practical in the contect of just a -refit as it were.

 

I'm not much of a BOUNTY historian either. Not much affinity for the ship but it's got a cool story (although much distorted). As far as a second set of Admiralty Plans - I doubt it. What I do know (and it's stated in the AOS) is that the BOUNTY was a purchased ship (BETHIA) so the Admiralty of course took her lines off. They made significant  modifications and re-christened BOUNTY with a new set of lines. This could be what you've heard. Also (don't quote me) I think the AOS was re-issued and included additional images so that may also add to the misconception of a second set. Someone please feel free to correct me.

 

The 3-D idea has my attention. I believe it will play a large role in the future of our mutual endeavors. I know there was a thread on MSW debating it's merits as it pertains to scratch building. I'm not here to say either way. I do think that in the creation of a master for a kit (say a figure head or stern decorations) it can be an exponential leap forward in the single master used for casting multiple items. 

 

I have a ROYAL CAROLINE sitting on my work bench that I am chomping at the bit to do. I have the AOS for it. If 3-D can be used I have entertained the idea of drawing out the carvings and having them produced with 3-D. The level of detail would be incredible as compared to the kit's offerings or individually sculpted/carved items. But that's a conversation for another time.

 

As it pertains to BOUNTY's stern and quarter badges I'd love to be able to get the stern with a really well done cornucopia and scrolling. The same holds for the badges.

 

I think that Testor's moves were based on the environmental aspects of the enamels vs. water based. I don't airbrush at all (don't like it) so I'll see how the Admiralty paints work without it. I may run some tests on scrap soon just for my own curiosity. I'll let you know.

 

I am encouraged at your restraint regarding the sails. I'm sorry I had to be so hard on you but sometimes the important lessons in life are the toughest.............. I'm proud of you.

 

Sam

[Jay 1]

Sam, thanks for the background regarding her lines. Yep, I had the story about her lines slightly skewed. I'm also not a big fan of the ship (have seen some nice builds of her though), but I am looking forward to your project! It does look like the former builder did some nice work, I'm really looking forward to seeing you take the boat to a new level and how you do it.

 

What you wrote about 3-D were my thoughts as well. It'll be great if you can use it for the Bounty's stern and qtr badges! So many cast parts leave a lot to be desired, esp. when it comes to details like a ship's scrollwork and etc. Like you I'll stay out of the debate on its merits or faults when it comes to scratch building and etc; however, my guess is that this technology likely will be embraced eventually by some model companies--innovative firms like ME. There are so many compelling reasons why embracing it will be a good business move once its costs come down.

 

Lol on being tough with me As former Marine and combat vet, I've got pretty thick skin along with, thankfully, good senses of humor and play.

 

Jay

[samueljr]

Jay,

 

Didn't know you were a former Marine (first - Thank you) second talk about whatever you want I aint getting in your way.................LOL

 

Sam

[Jay 1]

Thanks Sam! Shoot, a lot of the fun with build logs, in addition to the build, is the banter and camaraderie--I like your sense of humor and fun, shipmate! And I still ain't talkin' about bloody sails (getting ready to hang some on my current build...I'm either a glutton for punishment or an idiot

[samueljr]

Jay,

 

Lot of good people out here. Looking forward to seeing your current build with laundry hanging...........

 

Sam

[samueljr]

Hi folks,

 

Well since my last post much has happened. I have had serious technical, construction and philosophical discussions with JMaitri (Jay) regrading where to take BOUNTY. Also a lot of soul searching on my part as I really don't have a great amount of interest in BOUNTY - but being the glutton for punishment that I am and not shying away from a challenge - here we go!

 

Jay and I have gone back and forth regarding getting the scale correct (as much as possible) and I have gone so far as to work on the NMM plans as well as conduct some additional BOUNTY research I promised myself I wouldn't do (for time considerations). 

 

There were a number of discrepancies between the AOS book and the Mamoli plans (not surprising) but the differences were significant enough for me to go the additional research route as well.

 

Here's what I'm now doing in my "re-fit"

 

• I have stripped the hull down to the skin.
• I'll build the bulwarks back up to correct height (they were low and uneven)
• The deck was single sheet (although nicely done in scale) it was de-laminating from the false deck. I will replace with strip decking, 
• this will also allow me to lower the Bow which is about 10" high in scale due to higher bulkhead arms.
• The original builder attempted to 2nd plank just below the LWL and copper over this. It didn't work out so well so I'll finish planking below and re-copper with tape plates in scale.
• The deck fittings will be addressed as they come into play.
• The masts and yards are accurate to the AOS and not to badly done. They lack a little detail and finesse so I'll keep and touch up.
• The one launch at present will serve as the "famous" 23' launch Bligh was set off in. It's pretty accurate in scale and not too poorly done. I'll repaint though. I'll also add in a 20' cutter.

NO SAILS!!!!! (had to add that in)

 

I'd like to thank Jay publicaly for his help and humor.  Being able to "talk" with everyone is what makes MSW so great!

 

Sam

 

 

[Jay 1]

Some how, I missed seeing your latest post Sam--thanks for the thanks! You had several very difficult calls to make with this project; given the challenges of many of the kit's dimension errors, you carefully weighed the pros and cons of those problems and came up with great solutions to this model's challenges. She's going to be a beauty when you're finished!

 

Sails? Sails? You don't need no stinkin' sails!

 

Jay

Edited August 30, 2013 by JMaitri

[Jaxboat]

Wow, Just discovered this thread. Great stuff. Very interesting to see where you will start the renovation.

 

Re: contact cement, I was always fascinated and perplexed why ship modelers used it  . I believe it is based on rubber and as such subject to oxidation and degradation similar to what you are seeing.

 

RE Admiralty paints: I use them and they brush very well. Haven't tried air brushing them yet. You will find the colors more muted than what you see today based on organic pigments. They are based on inorganic pigments  that were available in the 18th century. Jotika initialy overhyped (IMHO) them as authentic which went out the window once they started only selling the water borne versions.

 

What fabric will you be using for her sail rig?     :P  (the devil made me do it!) 

Best

Jaxboat

[samueljr]

Jax,

 

There's a list and now you're on it for the sail comment..........

 

I will have discipline on this ship!

 

Sam 

[Jaxboat]

I feel honored!

Best

Jaxboat

Edited September 2, 2013 by Jaxboat

[Sjors]

Hi Sam,

 

I was take a look at the kits log and find this one !

That's a hell of a job what you are doing.

Stripping the whole model !

But at the end you have a beauty !

With your skills it should be no problem.

One tip.

When I magnify the pictures there are not sharp anymore.

Maybe it is better to use a tripod.

It keep the camera level and you can make great pictures !

If you have no tripod, use a stack of books.

I will follow you further on.

so, keep on going and let the pictures coming !

 

 

P.S. Send my regards to your mother         

Edited September 11, 2013 by Sjors

[Jaxboat]

Some comments on water versus Solvent paint. 

 

Water is winning the marketing battle because of ease of use, performance matching, or at least approaching, that of traditional solvent borne paints and environment and handling issues with solvent. White Ensign Models, who have been the most active in recent years in developing an excellent line of enamels for plastic kits, can no longer ship solvent borne paints to the US unless they ship in large amounts to their US distributor. Formerly they could ship directly to US customers. New rule from the British Post office.

 

Most folks are moving to "acrylics" as a result of the decline of solvent based paints. Beware, however, that the term "acrylic" is not a catchall. There are many types of acrylics that vary in volatiles (water, solvent , water/alcohol, etc) monomer compostion, molecular weight High, medium, low0, open time, polymerization method (emulsion, dispersion, etc), solvent resitance, solubility in alcohol, modification (e.g., Acrylic urethanes) etc.  Each of these variables affect ease of application (especially sprayability), durability, flow and levelling (brush marks or lack thereof ),alcohol solubility, etc.  Educating your self about the nature of the acrylic paint you intend to use is a must in my opinion. You do not need to be a polymer chemist but you should know the paint properties (ease of application, dried film properties, etc) that result from the polymer chemist's polymer design. If not directly stated on the label, these properties can be readily determined by applying a sample on a scrap of wood and observing them.

 

Storage conditions are also important. Water borne paints are very sensitive to cold. Many paints are ruined even at temperature below 45 F but above freezing. Usually, any cheesing effects or unrecoverable change in viscosity indicate a most likely unrecoverable problem . If you bacterially contaminate them they will lose viscosity and smell like rotten eggs. Dilution should only be with deionized water or alcohol water blends as recommended by the manufacturer.

Best

JAXBOAT

Edited September 11, 2013 by Jaxboat

[samueljr]

Jax,

 

Great information!

 

Thanks - Sam

[Jaxboat]

Great news for Floquil fans. Micro Mark is now selling a new paint line made by Valejo for them with colors that are direct matches for he Floquil colors. Big difference will be that they are water based acrylics. I have used their paints before and like them.

Best

Jaxboat