Le Soleil Royal by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100

[popeye2sea]

Bill,

I would put the strop of each deadeye through a hole in the top, then hook your futtock plate or chain into that and into a eyebolt installed into the bowsprit.

 

I am going to try some seat of the pants engineering in order to try and set up the futtocks tightly.  I will drill holes through the bowsprit where the futtock plates will hook in to. but instead of eye bolts I am going to pass some thick thread, doubled, through the holes. The futtock plates will hook into the loops and the long ends on the opposite sides can then be pulled tight to tension the assembly and then knotted off around the eye. Otherwise, it will be somewhat of a guessing game trying to get the lengths of the futtocks correct.  All I should have to do is get them close to the right size.

I hope you follow my meaning.

 

Regards,

Henry

[Bill97]

Henry I am following your meaning. To further my understanding of your “seat of the pants” will you use the same hole in the bowsprit for the futtock plate on the other side? Have two doubled threads pass through the same hole (total of 3 holes in bowsprit) in opposite direction so you have a loop on each side? Or will you have 6 staggered holes with the loops alternating sides? What are you going to use for the futtock plate or chain? I may make a couple chain links. And in your scenario will you make them just a tiny bit short so your thread loop plan has a bit of room to tighten?  Wish you were way ahead of me on this step so I could see how it works out 😊.  I am also working a bit on the chains and lower shrouds on the three masts, a task I know how to do, so figuring out this engineering will not be a hold up in my progress. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 
 

Bill

[Hubac's Historian]

Here is what one friend on another forum is doing with his sprit top.  He scrapped all the Heller sprit-mast parts, preferring to make them all from scratch.  Here is Duarte’s solution:

I will copy this approach, myself.

[Bill97]

Marc I like that as well. Is that a rope (thread) futtock?  I can zoom in and see the hook at the top end that connects to the strop of the deadeye. Then it looks like just a simple thread loop that goes through an eyebolt in the bowsprit. Is that correct what I think I am seeing?  I am looking at 2.5mm deadeyes. What are your thoughts on that size?  Will require small gauge wire to make the strop. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Bill97

[Hubac's Historian]

More from Duarte:

 

[Bill97]

Wow Marc under 2mm would be tiny. I am looking at my 2.5mm and wondering if my old fingers can handle working with them. Can’t imagine trying to work with anything smaller. I believe I will live with 2.5mm and hope no one judges me to harshly 😊.  Still trying to make out what the futtock is in the photos.

[Bill97]

This is the method on the HMS Victory for the futtock shrouds I think this idea could work with a hook on one end of a thread to connect to the strop of the deadeye and the other end to an eyebolt on the bowsprit or passing through a hole as Henry suggested. 

[popeye2sea]

Bill,

 

Three holes only. Doubled thread passing from both sides. Drawn tight and wrapped around the eye.  My futtock shrouds will be the served type shown above.  That is how I make all my block strops, futtock staves, and shear poles.

 

To answer your other question to Marc, if I may, I make my strops and futtocks completely from thread.  I build up to the thickness I want by taking a number of turns around two hooks that are the proper distance apart. Then I serve over the whole thing to form a stave or strop with an eye on each end.  If I then want to make a block strop I lash the two eyes together end to end and serve over the lashing. That makes a continuous loop that can be seized around a block. Or I can leave the eyes loose to pass around a spar to lash a block on to it.

 

Regards,

Henry

Edited June 28, 2023 by popeye2sea

[Bill97]

This is just my first prototype. The actual ones I use will have the strop shaped a bit better and blackened. This prototype used 2.5mm deadeye and 30 gauge copper wire. I think the 2.5mm blocks look fine and the 30 gauge wire is a good size for the strop and the little hook. I must say soldering that tiny little strop was fun. 

[Bill97]

Henry your explanation above about how you make your strops and futtock is really good. I have read through blog, especially when you get into rigging, several times. I have it bookmarked for quick reference.  I find your process explanations fascinating and want to copy your practices where I think I am able. A question I have for you is if there is a minimum size thread you use that you will attempt to serve?   I have not been successful serving over a thread smaller than about a  .4mm thread. 

[popeye2sea]

For serving thread I have just been using standard all purpose sewing thread.  Where I take my time to choose a good diameter of thread to use is when I am making seizings that will be particularly visible; like on shrouds.

 

Regards,

Henry

[Bill97]

Spritsail topmast installed. Happy that it lines up perfectly behind masts. Lower deadeyes for shrouds installed using 30 gauge blackened copper wire to make strops and hooks. Decided to go with the 3 eyebolts on each side of the bowsprit to tie off the futtock shrouds. Used standard black sewing thread for the futtock shrouds. In the picture it is difficult to see what is thread, hook, and eyebolt. I must say 30 gauge wire is very flexible and difficult to withstand much pressure and manipulation. Gets to the point where you say to yourself “just leave it alone, it’s fine, you are going to break a very tiny wire if you don’t stop manipulating it”. Most of the time I listen to myself 😊.

[Bill97]

Any of you who zoom in will notice the tiny deadeyes are upside down. That will surly be corrected before the shrouds are added. 

[Bill97]

Spritsail Topsail in with shrouds. Will add ratlines later. Those tiny 2.5mm deadeyes are challenging to work with. Now as I look head it looks like a long stretch of making chainplates and lower mast shrouds. Wish me luck this is going to be a fun. 

[Baker]

very beautiful work 👍

[Bill97]

Thanks gentlemen. 

[Bill97]

Ok gentlemen, thoughts and opinions. I am fiddling with my chains for the main and foremast. Here is my curiosity. Do you make the complete chain except for the bottom piece that will shape over the wale off the ship. Then drill a hole in the channel large enough to get the section of the chain where two links come together through, or do you put the strop of the deadeye in the hole and then complete the chain under the channel.  On one hand my concern is making the hole in the channel too large. On the other hand I am concerned with soldering the link of the chain while on the ship. I use a soldering iron and it would be most difficult to solder a link here. Henry I think I remember you cut your channel in half along the holes, put your chains in and then glued the halves back together. I can no longer do that. Here is my current concept of how to do it. I have all the deadeyes for the fore and main mast stropped and soldered. I now am going to make and solder the bottom link and the extra link (whatever it is called). I can put the deadeye in the hole and use a string from the mast top to determine where and the rake of the bottom link and the extra link. Once those pieces are in I can custom fit the connecting link. Instead of solder I will use CA glue to hold it together instead of risking soldering iron heat. If I use CA glue to hold the strop there should not be much, if any, strain on the chain and the glued link. 

[Bill97]

An interesting particularity of French practice:  on the Frolich model, you can see that the preventer plate spans two wales.  The French fill the space between wales, flush to the surface of the wales, and for the length of the channel above.
 

Marc I really like this idea. I am going to do just that for the fore and main mast. Since a preventer plate is not used for the backstay deadeyes do you think the area between the wales is only filled in the section below the shroud deadeyes not the full length of the channel above?

Edited July 6, 2023 by Bill97

[Bill97]

So here is the route I took for my chain plates. Marc I really liked the idea of filling the space between the wales where the preventer plates go. I used pieces of Evergreen to fill the sections and brought the front pieces up to match up with the flow of the anchor protector thingy (nautical term 😊). Then I painted them to march the wales. I previously made the strops for the fore and main mast lower deadeyes. I had also made the preventer plates and the toe links. Using a string tied at the location where the shrouds will attach I lined up the deadeyes so the 3 holes were properly aligned with the string at each place. Next, using the same string I installed the toe links and the preventer plates. An invisible line runs directly from the mast (where shrouds will connect) down through the deadeye, the toe link, and the preventer plate. I glued and positioned the strop and pins with CA. I will now go back and custom make the center link for each chain out of blackened wire and use CA instead of solder on this link. 

[Hubac's Historian]

I think this came out great Bill!  The CA should be more than adequate to close those links.  My solution to this problem was to make my channels so that the deadeye strop slots are open.  I’ll make the chain assemblies in their entirety, tack them onto the model with CA and small pins, as you have done, and then I’ll glue a small cover strip over the deadeye slots.

[Bill97]

Marc do you think the way I filled the area between the wales looks ok?

[Hubac's Historian]

I do.  In fact, you have persuaded me to do the same on mine.

[Bill97]

This is interesting. I am looking at the 1977 instructions. First of all let me say I am finding them very helpful!  It shows a rigging step that was not in the current instructions, or at least I was not instructed to do it yet. In the old instructions it shows the loop made in step 23a was to be made and placed around the bowsprit before I continued with construction. I have not done this. I assume it is a block that will later be used for rigging the main stay as shown in the current instructions. I need to look ahead to see when and where. I guess I will attempt to make this loop now 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Bill97

[Bill97]

Chains for the fore and mast port side complete. The method I used seemed to work fine for me. Will probably become my personal method on future builds. Added just a touch of rust on the links even though I doubt King Louie allowed very much rust anywhere on his ship! 😊

Now to work on the starboard side

[Ian_Grant]

Bill, if that is "S2" coloured in green in your pic, yes it is the mainstay, hooked at the shoulder in the stem below the bowsprit.

You'd need to slide it down the bowsprit before adding the gammoning (will it go past your sprit-topmast?) if you want to tie the loop off-ship. It might be too late for you. 😒

[Bill97]

Yep Ian sprit-topmast and gammoning is already in place. As I said the new Heller instructions do not show making nor reference making this collar for the mainstay until step 117 which is the step partially shown in the photo above. As you can see in step 116 (the step right before 116) there is no indication of the mainstay collar. Looking further back in the instructions step 95 through 100 show how to assemble various rigging pieces for later use, with step 99 showing how to assemble the mainstay. I guess I will just do it the best way I can. 

[Bill97]

I am looking at the molded holes Heller put below the mizzen mast channel to accept the toe of the chains. The holes do not appear to be in the correct place. On the fore and main mast the holes line up under an invisible line running from the mast top down through the deadeye. Using these holes for the toe link and preventer plate creates the desired straight line from the mast top all the way to the bottom nail in the preventer plate.  However at the mizzenmast, if I use the molded holes the chains will go off at an angle from the line of the shroud. Unless it is supposed to be that way, why I can’t imagine, I am going to make new holes. A reference picture I found shows the straight line. 

[Bill97]

Deadeyes and chains installed for the shrouds for all three masts. Waiting to put in the deadeyes and chains for the backstays until I add the next section of masts. Want to make sure I get the correct angle. Now on to fixing some of the rigging steps i unfortunately missed. Then serving and adding installing shrouds. 

[Bill97]

Anderson says the first thing to go on the mast is the pendants. Two on each side of the fore and main mast, hung just like the shrouds will be.  One on each side of the mizzenmast. That was my task for the day. I am using the same thread sizes for the SR as I did on my HMS Victory since they are both the same scale. Henry I liked your idea of using pieces of a copper tube to make thimbles. I used a size of copper tube that I thought made a good looking thimble for the pendants. Started out serving each of the threads a couple inches in the middle where it went around the mast. After they were all hung I applied weight to each one and painted them liberally with diluted white glue. Hopefully when dry they will hang naturally. 

[Bill97]

Is there a standard amount distance between the lower deadeye on the channel and the upper deadeye at the end of the shroud?  I have read through the corresponding sections in Anderson and Longridge’s books, as well as the Heller instructions. I even attempted Googling it. Find no definitive answer. On my HMS Victory I just estimated what I thought looked good. But I have no doubt there was a general standard plus or minus a bit for laniard tightening. I can convert for scale if I had a general idea. You guys know?