Golden Hind by newbee - OcCre - 1/85 - improved version

[newbee]

Hi all. First a quick introduction as to building this kit. As a kid I grew up in Appledore in North Devon. watched the Golden Hind built, launched and fitted out as well as the sea trials and her sailing away. fast forward to last September, while losing patience with the President kit I was building I discovered this Occre kit. Due to the many inaccuracies of the ship, I decided not to attempt a build log, but would use this as a prototype for an improved version. I am currently finishing the ratlines of the first version and am preparing some modifications for this one. Here are a few photos of the first taken during the build. with some of the modifications that were required

[newbee]

This is where I have got to now. 

[newbee]

I am not going to start with what's in the box as there are several posts which include this and also quite a few parts I wont be using. 

There are many inaccurate details which I will try to cover as I go on. Before I can get going the gunports need to be redone, the bulwarks for the foc'sle and main deck are wrong and the main deck itself is too low down. The planks supplied are way too wide with the exception of the 2mm lime strips. The sprit deck should not be planked and the sides of this as well as all the side rails should be narrower and not solid. Also, the sides should be much thinner. The foc'sle bulkhead should be angled to the main deck and not vertical and has an arched doorway protruding. I don't mean to be sounding over critical as she makes a great looking ship. It's just I want to build her to look more like the original in London on which it clearly based. I am planning on building the hull up to the main deck level and also the foc'sle before working from the quarter deck back and up. I've no idea what I'm going to do on the rear section yet but everything above deck level will be scratch built. Sorry if this part has been long, so, onto the build. Having dry fitted the frames and decks to the keel I needed to figure out the correct height of the main deck and how to extend the foc'sle. There are 4 strakes of planks between the main whale and the decorative strip with a further 4 strakes above. The arches on the side are between the rubbing strakes so I drew a sketch of how I thought they should look. And found that the foc'sle should be 9mm longer than it is. I toyed with the idea of extending it forward but that would mean re- working the cut water amongst other things. I could extend it aft but then the main deck would be too short. I decided to add 2mm to the front of frame 2 and extend the false keel 7mm between frames 3 and 4, then extend the main deck and gunports by the same amount. The first thing I started doing was to put in supports for the gun deck. Once the frames are in place and filler blocks fitted, I shall pin the main deck in place along with the gun ports. I'm not sure if the extensions will be strong enough so I will make a duplicate version as a plan B. I have also made a preliminary A frame for the sprit deck. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by newbee
typo's

[newbee]

Firstly, tonight I would like to thank whoever changed the title, though I would have added (hopefully) at the end. LOL. However, on to the build which, as I should have guessed, will not be as straight forward as I was hoping. This is how the false keel looks with the 7mm extension. 

[newbee]

Firstly, for the gun ports I cut rough squares, where I believe they need to be. Next, I made the duplicate gun ports section by using masking tape and pva glue between the layers of timber and then cut around the original and then separating them carefully. Following this I have added 2mm walnut sheet over the top of the main deck and cut off the excess when fully dried. Once dried, I was going to cut out the notches for the frames, but, then realised it wasn't necessary.  

[newbee]

 

4 minutes ago, newbee said:

Firstly, for the gun ports I cut rough squares, where I believe they need to be. Next, I made the duplicate gun ports section by using masking tape and pva glue between the layers of timber and then cut around the original and then separating them carefully. Following this I have added 2mm walnut sheet over the top of the main deck and cut off the excess when fully dried. Once dried, I was going to cut out the notches for the frames, but, then realised it wasn't necessary. 

[newbee]

I am now remembering why I gave up on my last build log. The photos don't go in the right place instead of following below each other, each new photo goes above. also, after adding photos, when I try to type the picture below jumps up and hides what I write. Any ideas how to stop this from happening would be appreciated. I don't have the patience for this and will maybe just post photos of progress instead. Anyway, I will try again. 

Once the main deck was dry, I slotted it onto the frames and added the gun port section. This was when I realised, that as I won't be using the bulwark supplied, the main deck is 2mm to narrow on each side. when I factor in the 2mm lime strips and then the 4 x 2 mm main whale this makes the main deck about 8to 10 mm wider. For now, I am going to have to keep dry fitting and pinning to see how it is going to look, I suspect that I may have to extend the false keel further at some point though I am really hoping it's not necessary. I am really finding out the domino effect of making changes. Frame A2 and part B11 will each need to be widened by 2mm each side along with A6. The good news so far is that having pinned 2 5mm strips from the tops of the gunports there is approximately 0.5 or 0.6mm space for the planking to make the main deck level with the top of the main whale. I have now dry fitted the base of the stern gallery and the aft most gun port seems to be where it is supposed to be. The next few nights need to be spent finishing off the rat lines on my 1st build so will return with an update next weekend, as long as I don't lose my patience with typing. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by newbee
typo

[Paul Le Wol]

Hi newbee, I am following with great interest the mods that you are making to your Golden Hind. Regarding the issues you are having with text and images, the only suggestion I have is that you make sure your cursor is positioned where you want to insert the text or image. I’ve had success by ensuring that after entering text or inserting an image I hit enter a couple of times to move the cursor down to the position where I want the next set of text or image to be placed. That way you don’t end up with text beside the image or somewhere else that you don’t want it. Moving the cursor down a couple of places will also give you a space between the images which makes them easier to differentiate from one another. Hope that’s of some help 

[newbee]

Hi Paul. Thanks for your input. I shall give that a try. The modifications I am planning seemed fairly easy in my mind but, in practice, will be more challenging. I am working on the assuption that the main hull is appropriately proportioned. From the modified gun port positions it seems to be. 

[newbee]

Despite thinking of planning the foc'sle before worrying about the stern, I have started planning the height and angle of the quarterdeck and the poop deck. This is mainly due to realising that I will need to have the sides and decks correctly sized before I can glue the frames to the false keel. I have had many attempts at drawing where the strakes will fit on the rear bulwarks but have found it much easier to pin strips along the hull where I need them. I now have 27mm between the top of the main whale and 2mm below the edge of the quarterdeck. This now means that the bulkhead behind the main deck needs to be 10mm higher. 

The quarterdeck is laid at too steep an angle and should be flat along its length and not stepped. I have also checked that the windows and arches will fit between the decorative strips (12mm apart) which they do well. For all the hull planking and decks. I am using 3mm strips rather than the 5mm ones supplied with the kit. I am still not sure whether I will use the bulwarks supplied or not but if I do they will be cut at deck level. 

 

 

[newbee]

I have now built up the quarterdeck and sanded down the edges. the balsa strips I added towards the front, very usefully, left a 1mm space to run 2 1mm thick x 5mm strips across so, when I plank the bulwark, I will have a harder base than balsa to glue onto. The quarter deck will now be left to dry until tomorrow.  Tomorrow evening I hope to sand the top smooth and level with the upper strakes as a guide and achieve the required angle of slope.

Now onto the foc'sle deck. This also needs to be extended sternwards and made level rather than sloping.  I have made an L shaped support on part B1 to allow the supplied fore deck to rest on. I also had to glue a 3mm section across the gap of both B1 and A2 and added 3mm to the raised edges of A2 to accommodate the notches in the foredeck. Having added the extra height to Frame A6 I have also noted that all the doors need to be enlarged. in photos I took on board, the door under the foredeck is around a fifth of the entire deck and the top of the arch is slightly higher than the level of the foredeck. The bulkhead here is also angled which, with it being clinker planked as are the other three, is another error in the kit design. As I think of it, the only bulkheads angled correctly are the front of the foc'sle and the main deck. The poop deck should also be vertical where I have now added a wedge to make it so. I have also started to make the angled supports for the rear foc'sle bulkhead.

[newbee]

Since the last post I had been trying to arrange the strakes on the aft bulwarks to obtain the right angles and widths of the taper of the planks. The shape of these bulwarks is fairly close to how they need to be, though, the top edges are at the wrong angle. The height at the stern is ok. With the main whale in place above the gun ports I found that I was unable to fit the correct number of planks even with them sloping up at the stern. I did, however, noticed that if the main whale was angled up more, I would get the right fit. This would mean re-thinking the gun ports and raising the stern most ones further up which, would in turn. mean adjusting the position of the stern gallery. After looking again at more photos of the actual ship I realised I had been trying to run the lower decorative strip parallel to the main whale. In reality it is actually higher at the stern than further forward so it will be possible to place all the planks where they should be with the correct curve upwards at the stern. Happy with this knowledge, I have now unpinned everything and have glued the frames in place apart from the stern pieces which I will add later as they need to be reshaped. I have also added the filler blocks all the way along the hull to enable it to withstand the sanding down. I was going to leave the middle section unfilled but realised this could weaken the hull at this point. i have also now added the 2mm sheet on top of the quarterdeck and painted the internal areas black.  

[newbee]

The starboard side is now sanded down so just need to finish the port side. The next stage, I think, will be to add the first layer of planks up to the main deck level and start on the sides of the foc'stle. For this I am planning to have the sides around 5mm thick but thinned out where the fore chaser gun port will be located.

[newbee]

I thought it would take until tomorrow to finish the sanding of the lower hull, but it's pretty much done. It just needs a very fine sanding now. Another thing I have picked up on is, the instructions say to sand the bow to the false keel. They should also mention to sand the stern pretty much to a point. this will make the stern 4 mm thick after the first planking is completed.  

Edited November 5, 2022 by newbee
typo

[newbee]

Since the last post I have now added the dummy gun carriages and applied a second coat of black paint to the interior. I have had to remove the gun deck supports as I found I had not placed them correctly after all. Instead, I have built up the gun deck on top of the filler blocks, and, mounted the gun carriages on top. these have also been painted black.

I have also cut out gun ports in the stern piece A10 and also glued and pinned the gun port bulwarks. 

[newbee]

Unfortunately, progress has been very slow over the past 3 weeks. This is mainly due to trying to complete rigging the sails on the 1st version, as well as contemplating how to progress with the stern section. I have, however made a start on the foc'stle and have remade the fore deck larger than the original. I believe that the main deck is 1 cm too short in relation to the quarter deck and was toying with the idea of cutting 1cm off the front of the quarter deck, but this mean that the gunports would need to be redone and the main mast would be too far forward. I may have to leave it as is. The angled bulkhead has been made and the arched doorway shaped. I am now looking at ways to make a good-looking arch to surround the door. I have also sanded filler blocks for the forward section of the foc'stle ready to add the fore chaser gun ports.   

[newbee]

I am afraid it has taken a little while to get back to this build log and, unfortunately, It is being put on hold until the weather gets warm enough to start working in the workshop during the evenings. I shall return with an update early next year. The good news for me is that I have finally almost completed the first version and will add some photos when it's finished.

[newbee]

A little ahead of schedule (captain gone down with covid, along, now with myself, and we've had a warmer few days over Christmas. I reasoned that, I either check to see if I could remove the middle section of the hull (Plan A) or if I would need to rebuild the hull from scratch (Plan B). The reason being that the main deck is 14mm too short. I need 13 ribs along the main deck upon which the handrail will sit. I also need 12 along the quarter deck. The quarter deck allows me to have the ribs 10mm apart. The main deck, however, would have them closer to 8mm apart. I know this doesn't sound much of a difference but, I know, it will really stand out. It also effects the placing of the rubbing strakes along the outside of the hull as well.

As luck, I thought, would have it, the 2 sections were quite easy to remove. I then glued a 2cm wide strip aft of frame 5 to give a guide for the hacksaw to cut, and left it to dry. I also did the same with the gun port sections and yesterday, I had a go at the main deck itself. This is where I found out today that I was indeed lucky. The workshop at this time of year seems to be cold but also damp. So as I have been using the PVA glue here, rather than the very dry garage, (which I used last year) although it appears to have stuck well, it still hadn't dried after 24 hours. This helps explain why the middle section was so easy to remove. 

I added 2 X 7mm strips and cut some 2mm thin chipboard to fit each side between frames 5 and 6 and then glued and clamped them together.  These are now in the garage to dry. 

[newbee]

Firstly I want to say a Happy New Year to everyone and hope for a peaceful one everywhere.

Well, surprisingly to me, I'm still ahead of schedule, my plan A succeeded. the hull has held together, the main deck as well as the gun port strip all fit together perfectly. I have added the filler blocks and, as I expected, I've now started repositioning the gun ports between frames A3 and A6. I am also really happy to have completed the 1st version which I am really hoping I can improve on with this build. If not my next 2 years after this will be taken up by building it again but from scratch, and, in 1/40 scale. Yes, your right, I'm really hoping I get it right this time. Though I would really like to donate one of these to the planned Golden Hind museum if I can build one good enough. Any way here are a few pictures of progress so far along with the completed 1st attempt.  

[newbee]

These should have been added above.

[ilovewoodmodel]

Happy Chinese New Year! Before the festival, I have started to follow the progress of your kit, and I am very happy to see the Golden Deer you made. I'm looking forward to your next share, hope to see more details and references to help me start correcting the construction of the drawings.

[newbee]

After a few months break I have been able to return to this build. Welcome ilovewoodboats. Sorry it's been a while. Due to the cold and damp conditions I had to stop construction as I didn't want the wood to become damp. Since early January I have converted the 1/350 scale Academy Bismarck for R/C. This will accompany Trumpeter's HMS Hood on the pond in our grounds. I haven't glued the decks onto the Bismarck yet as she still has a small leak from the rudder area, but, I have 2 months to sort this. 

Anyway, back to the Golden Hind. 

After looking at my progress I have discovered a couple of patches where I created depressions in the balsa filler blocks. These have now been filled and will be sanded over the next day or two. I was also unhappy with the false gun carriages for the gun deck and have made replacements. I did buy guns with carriages for this but, the carriages are too high and the trunnions too wide. The carriages need to be in place before planking the hull and the cannons have to be inserted after.  I have constructed new carriages and shortened the trunnions so, when I come to add the cannons, they will fit through the gun ports and onto the carriages. Also, after much thought, I have started planking the decks. I shall, however leave the sides unplanked until I've added the planks on the side. Photos of the hull will follow next time. I also discovered yesterday morning, that the main deck I brought up on Friday night was badly warped due to coming up into the warm. I think I have managed to sort this by pouring boiling water over it in the sink, placing it on the worktop with a piece of wood over the top and resting a heavy tin of paint on above. last night I turned it over and did the same. This afternoon it seems ok so have begun planking it. I am going to leave the sanding and varnishing  for as long as possible so I can see how the sides will line up with the edges of the decks. I also need to see where the hand rail supports will go and the planking can only be completed after.

Edited March 26, 2023 by newbee
typo's and final comments

[newbee]

Posted in error

Edited March 30, 2023 by newbee
typo's and final comments

[newbee]

Apologies for the deleted post , but unfortunately, I had started it before I'd realised mistakes I'd made. One of the advantages of taking photos as you go is you can see things you've missed. After my previous post, my attempt at fixing the problem with the main deck failed miserably. I had to remake it from from scratch. Luckily I kept the original modified base and, without having a 5mm thick sheet, I used 2 sheets of 1.5mm and 1 2mm sheet and formed my own plywood deck. Thankfully this worked ok. I then planked this deck but left the edges to allow for shaping them once the 1st layer of planking is started. The planking will need to extend over this. I have now gone on and placed a block of balsa wood between the fore deck and main deck and also shaped the forward part of the foc'stle and cut out the openings for the fore chasers. The  improved false carriages have also been installed on the false gundeck, but, I have not added any detail as it would not be seen. For the fore and aft chasers I am using the supplied carriages but, as with the main guns, I am using bronzed cannons I had bought previously, though the chasers are smaller than the main guns as I believe they were, they possibly are not historically accurate but who knows for sure? I like them though. As well as repainting the inner hull black I have also painted the inner gun ports too. I 

[newbee]

The Photo's above are not in sequence but, hopefully not too much of a problem. I should also have mentioned that between the foc'stle and main deck bulkheads I used a piece of 20mmX25mm balsa wood. Once I am happy with the bow section, I will concentrate on the stern. I have a rough idea of what I need to do, but, not too sure how to achieve it yet. The area above the the stern gallery needs to be at a sharper angle, more like a triangle than a rectangle with the picture of the hind wider at the bottom and narrower at the top. The decorative strips also nee to be added and the hole for the gaff needs to be higher up as well as the poop deck itself. At present I am thinking of using the supplied bulwarks as a guide and adding strips of wood to the frames, and then, sanding the frames down to size. This also means that I need to figure out the angles I need along with the dimensions of the stern plate. i will need to work these out as I go. 

[newbee]

I'm sorry it's been quite a while since my last update. Progress has been painfully slow and I've been working till late most nights on her without being able to fully concentrate on the build, which, has slowed me down quite a bit. However, I have made some progress now and have a little time to compose this addition. The Foc'sle is now built up and fitted with the fore chaser carriages and is ready for the final filling and sanding. I have now almost finished the poop deck section which, has been a nightmare. I think now, with hindsight, I overcomplicated things. As I didn't want to glue too much in place, I found it difficult to figure out the proportions I needed. I marked out, roughly, by pinning strips onto the bulwark,  where the painted rubbing strakes will go, but without them being curved. I then marked where the rubbing strakes will need to be placed. Thus I found the poop deck itself was 2cm too short and the bulkhead between it and the quarter deck had to be raised higher so the poop deck was angled less steep. The rear edge of the poop deck has been reduced to 14mm wide which, with the bulwark and first planking, will make it 22mm wide. I achieved this by building up the poop deck with balsa wood and then adding 2mm thick walnut sheet, cut to size and glued on top. I was then able to sand the sides to the right angle, more or less. I have also cut the bulwarks off at deck level as, when the 1st layer of planking is added, the deck planks will overlap.  th 

[newbee]

The 1st photo above shows the supplied stern plate compared to the one I have adapted in the last photo.

[newbee]

After much head  I'm scratching and pulling my hair out, I'm surprised I'm not bald now, I have completed the topsides and almost ready to plank them. However I still need to use a little filler on the lower hull before lightly sanding the entire hull. I guessed the stern would be the most difficult part but, had no idea just how tough. I had planned on having the stern plate 40mm wide at the bottom, but, this meant that the stern was too wide behind the quarter deck. I had also managed to over sand the port side by 1mm so had to reshape this as well. I have now removed the planking completely on the quarter deck so once the first planking layer is done it can be sanded completely smooth. level with the topmost plank. The starboard bulwark also needed an additional strip added to the fore part of the quarter deck as a small sliver came off as I was cutting it. I always say the beauty of a wooden kit is if you make a mistake it's easily fixed. with a plastic kit you're knackered most times.

The next stage now is to fill in some dents on the bottom of the ship caused by applying pressure while using the stand. I also need to shape the rear keel better while ensuring that the shape is correct and ensuring both sides are identical.   

[newbee]

Progress is still very slowly moving on but, I am finding before I can complete 1 stage, I have to start on another. With the first version I was able to plank all the decks and bulkheads before planking the sides. With my modifications I have had to dry fit the first layer of planking from above the gun ports up to deck level to ensure the decks are the correct height and shape. The poop deck was especially tricky to shape but I was happy with the height. I have now been able to glue the upper strakes to the poop deck and quarter deck and, I've pinned the strake below the fore deck. Before I can progress with the main deck I now need to make the doors and arches and then plank the bulkheads. I also found that the original planking of the main deck came 0.5mm to low with the strake on the side so I added a 5mm strip to the edges which filled the gap and then re planked over the original so now the decking goes right up to the side of the ship. I also found that the fore deck was 1mm to low towards the stern but was the correct height at the bow. I added 2 layers of the 0.6mm strips supplied with the kit to build the deck up and then sanded it smooth. again the bulkhead between the foc'stle and the sprit deck will need to be planked before I fit the decking. I am also going to add a door to this as, this has now been fitted to the replica in London. As, the guide explained, it would have made sense to install it as it's a long way down from the top of the foc'stle, with no way of climbing up or down. I have ordered more 0.5 mm by 8mm strips with the idea that I make the shape of the door and frame and then add the actual frame and plank the doors on top. This will make them 1mm thick which should tie in nicely with the clinker style planking of the bulkheads. another modification from the kit as it has the planks side by side and vertical rather than overlapping horizontally. The poop deck and quarter deck are now planked and sanded smooth. I had real trouble bending the strake below the main deck running forwards as the wood kept splintering. I gave up and glued 2 X 0.6mm strips on top of each other and will use 1mm thick strips over the top and then sand the edges to the correct size. while waiting for the wood and some other parts I have ordered ( 7mm triangular dead eyes, 7mm violin blocks and 2 rams head blocks and some 2mm wooden parrel beads) these parrel beads, I hope, will form the bases of the columns on the quarter deck and foc'stle. I  I have also noticed that the centre line of the fore deck is 1mm off centre toward the stern but can be compensated for when I start planking it. 

I shall try to update more often from now on. Hopefully, every other Sunday morning at least.

[newbee]

Firstly I apologise for not having posted for over 4 weeks now. The last few weekends have been pretty busy and, again, after finishing work and then ship building, It's been too late to compose a new post. Any way here's my progress so far. 

In the last photos I had glued the 1st planking to the rear section from the gun ports upwards. These have now been rough sanded but I am not happy with the poop deck at all. I think it needs to be wider at the (what I have previously called the quarter deck) half deck bulkhead. After much thought I decided to plank the fore deck as I am happy with the shape and I can sand the forward edge if required. this has also been sanded smooth. I next started the 1st planking of the rest of the hull. as I've decided that the only way I can get the shape of the stern correct is to build it up and then sand it again to the right shape.

 

The 1st stage of this was to glue the strakes between the gun ports. I decided the easiest way to do this was to use 2X 4mm strips to give the 8mm height required. This was going well until, as I was pinning the forward most lower strake the gun port bulwark gave way and pushed the false deck section out as well. As I needed to glue this back in place I tried moving it but was unable to and damaged the gun carriage in the process . I've now ended up with a large gap from having to remove them both. A small section of the outer part of the bulwark had also come off. This has been repaired using a 1mm strip cut to size. I will make another dummy carriage and fix to a thin piece of balsa wood and insert in the gap before planking it over. 

 

As the hull is now longer than the strips of lime wood, I decided to plank the middle section first. I cut 8cm, 10cm and 12cm long planks. I intended to have the 8 cm plank running under the strake below the gun ports, but, found it was too short to pin down without one end laying on a frame. I decided instead to run the 10cm strake first followed by the 8cm with the 12 cm strake below that. The sequence then went from 8cm, 10cm and 12cm etc. I drilled 2 0.1mm holes as close to the ends as I could so the pins would not split the ends. (On my Mamoli Golden Hind I used this technique to decent effect). After this I started on forming the strakes from the forward gun port on each side. I then proceeded planking the stern section, which has almost been completed now.