Amerigo Vespucci by DanielD - OcCre - 1:100

[Bill97]

Daniel later in the day I reread through our discussion today and I think it is starting to to click now. Looking at the data on the back of the top 6 light packets (emerald green, blue, warm white, white, and purple) in my photo they all read 3.OV- 3.2V.  If I understand better now that means it takes a minimum of 3 volts and a maximum of 3..2 volts?  My 2 doubleA battery pack produces 3 volts so if I use that battery pack I would not need a resistor on those LED’s as Mike said and they could be on the same circuit?  If I want to use any of the four colors at the bottom (green, red, yellow, or orange) that are rated  1.8-2 OV, I would need a resistor to protect them from the high 3 volts and they could bro the same circuit. 
I do like the idea of the adjustable voltage regulator and the benefits you mentioned. I could get a 9v battery pack and adjust to what I need. Do you just put one on each circuit?  

[DanielD]

Bill, here is more information as promised.

 

First, your warm LEDs: the minimum voltage is 3 volts, the max you will get from 2 AA batteries. If you connect a single LED to your 3 volt supply, it will work. But, if you have 10 LEDs on that same battery source, each LED will draw current and reduce the readily available power. Meaning you start out with 3 volts (2 AA batteries) each LED will decrease voltage by a small amount. So by the time you have 10 LEDs in the circuit, you will have less than 3 volts available and now you don’t have enough voltage to turn on any of them. Also, the more lights you add, the more current draw there is and the faster you drain your battery.

 

so…. The fix to this problem is to use a voltage regulator. Basically you supply (input) more voltage than you will ever need, 9 volts for example. Then the regulator reduces that voltage to a constant set output, 3 volts in your case. As you add more LEDs, the regulator automatically adjusts the output to, you guessed it, 3 volts. 

 

The voltage regulator I used can be obtained from Amazon here: https://a.co/d/8F3D2dZ

I also used a resistor on each of my LEDs. This is to add extra protection because I’ve installed the LEDs deep into the hull and in places that I could never replace them. So I want them to last forever.

 

If you use a resistor, I suggest a 430 ohm 1/4w resistor which, practically speaking, can safely be used on all your LEDs regardless of color. They are inexpensive and will, in theory, reduce shock to the LEDs prolonging the life of the light and prevent over voltage. The one I used can be found here:  https://a.co/d/dYBj2cP

I have my lighting currently running on two 9 volt batteries but I plan to run it on a 12 volt power brick that will plug into the wall. Again, 9 or 12 volts is way higher than what I need but my regulators reduce to voltage to what I need for each color set, since they are all different. I also have a 6v motor on my ship to run the propeller, so the minimum voltage I need is 6 volts. The advantage to plugging into the house supply, I’ll never have to change batteries.

 

some things to consider…in my HMS Terror, see build log below, I built the battery into the hull, below the capstan. I thought this to be a good idea at the time, but a 9 volt battery is huge to make room for and design a way to change the battery when it dies. At first it was not a problem, but by the time I had the rigging done, it’s a very difficult process. In my AV, power is supplied off ship and enters through the bottom of the keel. Hidden away but accessible and doesn’t take up any room.

 

i think that’s enough overload for one night. I’m happy to sketch out a basic diagram if you are interested. It wouldn’t take long and likely helpful if you have never done something like this before.

 

Happy planning and building.

[Bill97]

Great information Daniel!  You are hitting on exactly what I want to do. I can’t make up a Christmas list for all the stuff I want. Plenty of time to get this together before I start my AV. I would be forever grateful to you if you were to sketch out a basic diagram. I have never lit any of my ships. 
I want to run my lights on a power brick that will plug into the wall. I will have my finished AV in a display case and this will solve the battery change issue. So would this be my shopping list: 

12 volt power brick (your recommendation appreciated)

Voltage Regulator (as you recommended)

Resistor (as recommended. 1 for every LED)

 

I will have additional questions about the voltage regulator(s). Will I need more than one? Where do I put it, or them, in the circuit?

 

Daniel I so much appreciate your help with this. As I said initially, I have studied this at length in the past and avoided because I just could not grasp it

[Bill97]

By the way Daniel I am reading through your Terror build. Great work. 

[DanielD]

Bill, here is a quick drawing. I’ve shown it with 3 circuits, but you could have more. As for a power supply, I would choose something between 12-20 volts. If you had an old piece of equipment that had a power brick, I’d check that before buying one. I seem to have a bin of them. The important thing to look for is the output needs to be DC (will be labeled DC or AC, only DC for our use), more than 9 volts but less than 40, and has a 1-3 amp capability. Again, all this info will be printed on the power brick, maybe in very small type, but it will be there.

 

The voltage regulator I suggested above has a small screw that you adjust the output voltage to each color of LED which will be slightly different. Personally I set to a little more than the minimum voltage for the color of LED you will be using.

 

Also, this circuit is in parallel, which means nothing to you at this time, but what it means for the long term is that if one LED burns out, it won’t affect the rest of the LEDs so they will continue to work. This is importance since some LEDs will be inside the hull and once fully planked you will never be able to change one out.  I’m sure you remember old Christmas lights where one bulb burned out and they all went out…these were designed in a series configuration which we want to avoid.

 

Last thing to keep in mind, the LEDs have a short and a long lead, short is negative and long is positive. The resistors can be installed in either direction so don’t worry about those; however, the OCD in me will pick one direction and install them all the same way. 😂

 

Oh, one more thing to think about. Where to “store” all this stuff? I’m building mine into the base which will be hidden but accessible if I want to increase or decrease the brightness of each color. If you build this into the hull, which will work, you will lose the ability to adjust things in the future. The trade off is going to be a more beefy display stand…

Edited December 5 by DanielD

[Bill97]

Daniel this is fantastic and will be so helpful when I start this project. So I will put a voltage regulator on each circuit (I can’t imagine need more than 3). Then a resistor on each of the LED bulbs. Following your diagram is very clear and understandable. 
 

Would you care to recommend a power brick?  I doubt seriously if I have anything around here that has one. Or maybe just tell me the official name of it so I can check Amazon or other source. Do they come with a positive and negative screw to attach my red and black wire, or other means of starting the circuit?

 

Again Daniel this is incredible and so very much appreciated.  By the way are you an electrician or engineer by trade?  Your diagram looks very professional and comes from experience in this area. 

Edited December 5 by Bill97

[DanielD]

41 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Would you care to recommend a power brick?  I doubt seriously if I have anything around here that has one. Or maybe just tell me the official name of it so I can check Amazon or other source. Do they come with a positive and negative screw to attach my red and black wire, or other means of starting the circuit?

 

Again Daniel this is incredible and so very much appreciated.  By the way are you an electrician or engineer by trade?  Your diagram looks very professional and comes from experience in this area. 

Bill, here is a good choice from Amazon. https://a.co/d/gEG4DrN
 

Most power bricks will come with an end like the one linked above. I would find the correct adapter to build into my base, simple, professional and removable. Also, no alterations required to the power brick. If you look closely on the unit, it shows that the outside ring of the connector is - (negative) while the pin inside is + (positive). You could cut off the end if you wanted to make a permanent connection, but I’d go with a connector.

 

While I do have an AA degree in electronics, I’ve never worked in the field. For the last 25 years I have worked as a chiropractic physician. I can’t tell you how much $ I have saved because I have been able to fix or change things around the house. My only goal here is to help people like you push yourself a bit, just as I push myself, to make my models better than I thought I could. Each one we build will be better than the one before, and that’s a good thing.

 

Oh I almost forgot. If you look closely at the wire of most DC power bricks, you will notice that one of the two wires has a faint usually white stripe and sometimes a +, this will be the positive side of the circuit. The things that are all around us that we never notice, until we know, then that’s all we see…sorry for the philosophical insite. 😂

Edited December 5 by DanielD

[Bill97]

Oh my gosh Daniel I had no idea what a power brick is. I am sure I have one or two of those around here somewhere. But for that price on Amazon, and your recommendation, I will save time looking for one and making sure the one I found was correct. Correct me if I am wrong Daniel.  It appears there is an adapter included with this brick. Is the piece with the green part on the end the adapter? It looks like there are two screws that the red and black wire would connect to. So I have in my Amazon cart the power brick, the resistors, and the voltage regulators. May include some more white LED’s. I only have 10-15. And what the heck a spool if red and black wire as well. Hopefully it is all in my stocking Christmas. 
That is fantastic that you are a chiropractor. If I lived in Washington my wife and I would surely be a patient!  Old body aches and pains. I have surly received chiropractic adjustments from time to time. 
I retired from the US Army years ago and enjoying retirement life. For many years I supplemented our income by doing home improvements for other people, and our home as well. I also did custom furniture building. Once I got the 3 kids out of college I cut back. 

Edited December 5 by Bill97

[DanielD]

20 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

It appears there is an adapter included with this brick. Is the piece with the green part on the end the adapter? It looks like there are two screws that the red and black wire would connect to.

Yes, the one I selected does seem to come with the adaptor. I didn’t notice that when I did my search, bonus!

[Bill97]

I did find this rather new one but I don’t think the information on the back identifies all you said it needs to.  So I think with the adapter included, knowing it is correct, and very affordable I will go with the one you recommended. How many white LED’s did you put below deck on that circuit?  Just guessing how many I should have. 

[DanielD]

31 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

I did find this rather new one but I don’t think the information on the back identifies all you said it needs to.  So I think with the adapter included, knowing it is correct, and very affordable I will go with the one you recommended. How many white LED’s did you put below deck on that circuit?  Just guessing how many I should have. 

Yes, this is exactly what you need.

[Bill97]

Oh well. I ordered the one you recommended. And it comes with the adapter!  Would be my luck as soon as I use it I would remember what it goes too! 😂

[Bill97]

Ok Daniel now that we had our long discussion and you gave me an excellent electric education upon witch I ordered all my needed stuff, I have gone back to the beginning of your build and started reading again. Sure enough, as I expected, I have another question. In the photo below (from your 1st page) you show 3 wires. Red, black, and white. I am only expecting a red and black wire running through the circuit. What is the white wire? I also see a green wire peeking in there in the photo of your control board with the voltage regulators but I won’t ask about that yet 😊. While I am bugging you with a question would you want to venture a guess at what gauge wire you are using?

[DanielD]

Good morning Bill. As you have seen, I have seven circuits in my build, six for various lighting effects and one for the motor that runs the propeller. Each and every LED and the motor gets a black wire, the ground or negative side of the project. There are several black wires that run around the ship, but they all start at one place, a ground lug if you will. In the diagram I sketched for you above, if you follow the negative wire around, you will notice that they all connect together.
 

There is a circuit for 1) the deck lights, 2) a set of cabin lights, 3) a second set of cabin lights, 4) the night light display the AV is famous for, 5) marker lighting, 6) emergency lighting, and 7) the engine. Now imagine that if I used only red wires for each different lighting/motor path/circuit. That would get very confusing. So…I had 4 colors available in my stash. I always used black for the ground/negative (since they all start/connect together). Then I spread the other colors around a bit so that things weren’t so confusing during construction. For example, the decks lights, cabin 2 lights, and marker lights are white wire. Cabin lights 1 and night lights are green while the motor and emergency lights are red. The color of the plastic that surrounds the copper wire makes no difference in how the circuit works, just makes it easier to keep things straight.

 

I used 22 gage wire because it’s what I had. I could have gone smaller, 28 gauge for example, but the smaller the wire the harder it is to work with. I would suggest 22 gauge for your first time.

 

Good question though, Daniel

 

PS, if I were to do it again I would ditch the emergency lighting circuit. I could only find 2 lights on deck that were related to the fire system on board. I’m sure that are more and probably many below deck, but below deck isn’t relevant for my build since you can’t see inside. My favorites as the build has continued are the marker and night light circuits. But you have to have the deck lighting…oh and in my case I have the two cabin lights circuits because I wanted a more realistic look. I have never seen a ship with all its port holes lit up at once, so I have two sets of lights, turn one set on for a scatter port holes lighting, turn the second set on for a different port holes lighting effect or if you are daring turn on both sets and all the port holes will be lit. So many options.

Edited December 6 by DanielD

[Bill97]

BRILLIANT!!!! 
 

That makes perfect logical sense. The voltage regulator you recommended from Amazon has 4 included. So since I will have everything I need to do 4 circuits that is what I plan. Will review your plan to see which I want to copy. Hope you do not mind my using your knowledge for my gain. It is so appreciated. I ordered 22 gauge wire so I am ready in the future. How many LED’s did you ultimately found gave the best bellow deck lighting?  I don’t know to expect to wire 10, 15, 20, etc to get the right port hole illumination. 

[Mike Dowling]

I used led strip for the porthole lights although it does mean they all work at the same time.

[Bill97]

Thanks Mike. That is an option as well. 

[Bill97]

Daniel I am again reading through your build and I read early on that you said you use 3mm LED’s. That is different than the size I originally showed you I have. Those are bigger. So I ordered a selection of 3 mm diode LEDs in a few colors. I should still be good with the resistors and voltage regulators  you recommended if I use the 3mm LED’s, right? The smaller bulbs will obviously look better in places where the bulbs will be seen. 

[DanielD]

Bill, yes the resistors will work for both types.

[Bill97]

Thanks Daniel. I am getting all my stuff together. Enjoying your and Mike’s discussion back then and detective work finding certain lights on the real AV. I have not let myself look forward yet to see how you did the lights for the port holes before the planking. 

[Mike Dowling]

If you are going to use led strip. Before putting anything together cut a slot in each bulkhead next to the false keel for the strip. If using individual led's you will nee to drill holes in the bulkheads for the wires to run through.

[DanielD]

1 hour ago, Mike Dowling said:

If you are going to use led strip. Before putting anything together cut a slot in each bulkhead next to the false keel for the strip. If using individual led's you will nee to drill holes in the bulkheads for the wires to run through.

I second this! I didn’t do this initially and had to use a long drill after I had all the bulkheads and deck glued together. Do yourself a big favor and drill or notch a hole on both side of the keel, all of them, from bow to stern, so that you can run wires or light strips up/down both sides of the hull.

 

While on the subject “wish I had done before,”something that I didn’t do and didn’t know I needed to do until it was too late, is to paint the bottom of the decks black. After I had my ship together and all the electrical working, planking done, deck finished, and looking wonderful, I decided to try the lights out in a dim or dark room. Wouldn’t you know, the lighting under the decks shines through! I never thought of this as there is the false deck and all the deck planking so the finished deck is fairly thick, but sure enough, not thick enough and the LED lights shine through.

Edited December 8 by DanielD

[Mike Dowling]

If it is of any comfort Daniel, I didn't paint the underside of the decks either and have the same problem. Only slight in my case thank goodness or there would have been some very blue air!!!

[DanielD]

Here are some photo updates that I took this morning.

 

Bill, just to be clear, don’t paint the bottom of the deck black until after you have permanently installed them to the false keel and bulkheads. You want to glue wood to wood for the best adhesion and the black paint might create a weak glue joint. Then after some thought, when I do my next ship, I will paint the bottom of the deck black. Let that dry then paint again with an off white color. The reason for this is black will absorb the light when it hits the deck, ultimately making the light appear dimmer. What we want to do is have the light bounce around inside the hull so that it comes out the port holes to our eyes. So, the off white paint will cause most of the light to continue to bounce around inside the hull and what little gets through the white layer, the black layer of paint will absorb and little if any will shine through to the top side of the deck.

 

Photos: 1) one set of cabin lights turned on. If you look at the bow you can see the lights shine through the decking 😡. Please avoid this from my (and Mikes) oversight. 2) the second set of cabin lighting, 3) both sets of cabin lights turned on. 4) the famous AV night lighting, the Italian flag. 5) the marker lights and 6) the marker lighting with one set of cabin lights on.

Edited December 8 by DanielD

[DanielD]

Bill, if I may suggest…if you plan to stick to four circuits, I would have 1) deck lighting, 2) the famous AV night lighting, and…

 

depending on if you choose to do two displays of cabin lights, like I did, or a single display like Mike has done…

 

double cabin lights like I did: 3) one set of cabin lights, 4) the second set of cabin lights.

 

OR

 

single cabin lighting like Mike has done: 3) cabin lights and 4) marker lights.

 

All ships have marker lighting but the OcCre kit does not include them except one hint of them at the stern in a wood carving. The important ones are near the bow a green light on the starboard/right side of the ship, a red light on the port/left side of the ship and a white light at the stern. The AV has some additional lights because she is such a tall ship. There is a solid red light at the top of each mast. While I did this on my ship, it’s not easy and requires additional purchases as required mast material is not in the kit. Read my blog for more info on this, but in simple terms you need a hole in the center of each mast to run the wires, a wooden or metal tube if you will. Lastly, I added a stern lantern onto the marker circuit that is part of the night display of the AV.

 

well, I’m off to work today, I’ll check in later.

Edited December 8 by DanielD

[Mike Dowling]

Very good point about the white paint. When I did my AV and the Titanic I painted everything below deck level white as you have suggested.

[Bill97]

Thank you gentlemen. I hope to learn so much from both of you before I start my AV. As you may see on my Endeavour build log, I still have a good way to go before this beautiful model is complete. 
 

I will fully appreciate any and all advice that you would file in any of these file drawers:

 

A.  If I had it to do over I would have..,,,

B.  I wish I had known this before I started…..

C. In retrospect I would not have wasted so much time on……..

D.  With out a doubt the most difficult task was …

Etc.

[Bill97]

Daniel and Mike look what Santa delivered early!

[Bill97]

Daniel, you could probably expect, I have looked at your control board in the pictures where it is visible. Is there anything specific you would recommend for the on/off switches?  I like the look of yours. Are your’s a two pin type?  I have looked at your a number on Amazon and not exactly sure of the requirements for my future application. 
Thanks

[DanielD]

Good morning Bill. All the stuff you see on my control board will eventually be built into the stand or base so all hidden except the switches. I left the regulators accessible for now so that I could make final adjustments. Glad I did because I ended up adding additional deck lighting. Any single throw single pole switch will work, but in my case I prefer push button style switches. Push buttons come in a variety of types, toggle or momentary for example. Momentary switches are just that, turn on or off the switch while you hold down the button but immediately reset when you remove your finger, and not what I wanted for this project, but a perfect fit if your end product will be on display in a museum. A toggle switch is what is needed for my application, push to turn on, push again to turn off. Push buttons also come in NO (normally open) or NC (normally closed) versions. This means that in the default state is the switch on or off. A problem with push button switches is that it is not always easy to tell if a switch is turned on or off visually. My project requires a NO toggle type lighted push button switch. The lighted switch I chose is an automotive version that is designed to light up when you turn on your car and stay lit all the time. Well that just won’t work for what I wanted so I had to wire the switches in a certain way to get the effect I was looking for, I.e. when the switch is on, so is the indicator light. This can be done without altering the switch but careful consideration needs to be made when wiring and choosing the power source. As I said earlier, the switch I chose is an automotive version, so the LED light is designed to run on 12 volts, meaning they won’t light up if I use 2 AA batteries (3v) or a single 9v because there isn’t enough power. Therefore, I chose a 12 volt power supply, as I suggested for you, and combined with voltage regulators for the ships LEDs, all worked out perfectly. Sorry about the long dissertation, but I thought I might explain my thought processes so that you could choose a switch you prefer, but understand what the options are and what they mean so you get the correct switch for your needs.

 

https://a.co/d/eGXCyfW

Edited December 11 by DanielD