Tying stays and shrouds to foremast top

[Scotty W]

I have a little problem with my Swift build. I tapered the foremast as indicated in the instructions down to 4mm at the top. The fore stay and 5 of the shrouds tie 25mm down from the top but there is nothing to support the 5 loops that go over the mast. I looked closely at the plans (below) and can barely make out a flange of some sort 25mm down from the top (red arrow) and I now have a straight tapered mast. Any suggestions for how I can put something there to hold up the loops? See pics, foremast is 2nd from left.

 

[TBlack]

Scotty,

You got it. The mast actually flairs out at that point, creating a shoulder for the stays to rest on. You can see the continuation of the shoulder indicated by the horizontal line 

on the mast to the left of where your 25 mm dimension stops. At this point, if you glue a couple of wedge shaped pieces on either side of the mast, you should be good to go.

Tom

[allanyed]

While this may not be exact, it should be somewhat close as it is based on drawings from Lees' Masting and Rigging for your time period for British vessels.

Allan

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by allanyed

[Scotty W]

Will be a tough couple of pieces to fabricate for me. Make a cone, cut it in half and file out a tapered channel on each to fit around the mast. That’ll take me a full day, oh well better get busy. Thanks!

[TBlack]

Scotty,

Why not just make a couple of wedges glued to the sides of the mast? Takes 10 minutes.

TB

[Scotty W]

You’re right. Shrouds on wedges mounted fore and aft on the mast, then stay above the shrouds. Thanks again.

[Scotty W]

10 minutes? Bwaahaha! The piece could only be 3mm tall or it would run into the eyebolts to be mounted below. About 4 hours but I’m old and slow. Filed a radius on the edge of a piece of plywood left over from frame, disk sanded it down to 3mm wide and shaved off the outer laminations. Cut out 2 2x3mm pieces with radius on one edge. Glued them on first with PVA, clamped, then let CA go on the edges. Then file, file, file and stain. Smallest scratch built parts I ever made. SWMBO thinks I’m insane. 😆 It’ll work. The parts were so small I had to finish shaping them AFTER they were installed. Crazy.

 

[allanyed]

Hi Scotty,

They may be too small and break off when you tighten the rigging.   You can make them larger and lower the location of the eyes as the kit plans may not be right.  If you feel you want the eyes as in the plans and thus have to use small wedges consider cutting a slot through the mast and inserting a solid piece which is less likely to break.  See sketch below.

 

Note that the order of dressing on your plans of the topmast standing rigging looks wrong.  As the U.S. followed British practice in most cases normally all the shrouds are set up first followed by the stay, then the back stay.  

 

Allan

 

[Scotty W]

Thanks Allan,

That would be awful to have everything mounted and then break off a shoulder during rigging so I may have to reconsider and do a “pass through” design like you show but after all that work and filing I’ll have to think about it while hooping my anchor stocks today. They seem strongly bonded to me as I filed a radius into the contacting surface for maximum surface area contact between the mast and shoulders and clamped them as shown. Before I plant the masts, I’ll throw a loop around it and give it a tug. If they break, I’ll start over, if not, I’ll go with it.  
Also it appears to me that the plans show the order you described: shrouds, forestay then the stay that runs to the main mast (the kit calls it the Top Mast Stay). There are no stays going to the masts from the stern on this schooner per the plans. I would rather put the forestay on last to hold the other 5 loops down against the shoulders as the one running back to the main mast slopes upward to it. It’s just so hard to make it out in the drawings. Sorry if I’m not using the correct terminology. There appears to be another loop of line over the ends of the top mast stay on both masts. Unless the loop is doubled on both? I appreciate you taking the time to help a guy out on his first build.

 

[Scotty W]

At first I thought the top loop on the foremast was a shroud from the starboard side but there’s one on the main mast too and it’s shrouds are tied below between the flag mast and main mast supported by the bottom bracelet so… ?

[allanyed]

I was going to ask you what that is supposed to be.  I thought maybe a stay of some kind or a swifter, but then there would be two of them, one port, one starboard and a swifter would be just above the other shrouds.  So far, I cannot find anything like this in any book on rigging so it might just be whoever did the drawing did not do enough research.  Stuff happens.

Allan

[Scotty W]

Yeah, the instructions are like that too, vague. Therefore I made the decision to use the order you recommended, shrouds then stays, when the time comes. I’ve ordered new blocks to replace the crap blocks that come with the kit and Ropes Of Scale rope from BenD. Had to find new anchors too because I melted one trying to solder a fluke back on that had broken off. Spent way more on parts for this ship than the kit itself, even adjusting for $40 in 1984. lol