Bismarck by madtatt - FINISHED – Trumpeter with Pontos set – 1:200 - PLASTIC

[Jeff59]

On 4/25/2025 at 5:05 AM, madtatt said:

@ccoyle

That's great, Chris. Just scale it down and you have an excellent template for scratching.

 

@Jeff59

I need the exact time period you want to depict, Jeff.

Do you mean the technical maiden voyage? The Bismarck was towed across the Elbe several times. Now an entry has surfaced from the war diary that the Bismarck collided with the lead tug Atlantik on September 15, 1940.
So new tugboats keep popping up, and we need to narrow them down. I've also contacted an old friend who used to be a curator at the Hamburg Maritime Museum. We'll see what he can contribute.

Really really appreciate your efforts Jolle, definitely trying to catch her appearance on her maiden voyage 14 15 September 1940 covered by live film footage, so sounds like the Atlantic is definitely the lead tug that l need to replicate with the smaller B&V boat passing up Bismarck's port side, would be great to try and capture this moment in her history, even thinking of trying to pose anti aircraft guns in same positions and all crew figures just to give them their spot in history, sounds a bit over ambitious but lm up for the challenge. 

[Jeff59]

Thanks very much Jolle for helping me here, and for other persons help, very humbling, if this all comes together l will have to try very hard to do justice to everyone’s efforts. 🤛 🙏🏻

[Jeff59]

Tried editing last post now it has disappeared, must be getting tired. Frustrating or what.

[madtatt]

Glad I can help, Jeff.
I'm still waiting for a response from my friend in Hamburg; he's very busy at the moment. The good thing is, we have plenty of time until you're ready. The ship model itself will keep you busy for a while. 😉

[Jeff59]

13 hours ago, Jeff59 said:

Tried editing last post now it has disappeared, must be getting tired. Frustrating or what.

Fresh head today, can’t even remember what l was babbling about 🫣 Haven’t managed to do any modelling in last fortnight, think the holiday break and summer weather kicking in seems to curtail modelling, probably the same for most of us, ever time l pass the Bismarck on the table l’m saying to myself l want to be working on you, just have to get certain jobs out of way first, such is life. Have to thank Jolle and his friends for their help, just awesome 🤛 it’s looking like l might just be able to pull this model of with their help 👍 just a case of finding out the right tugs and boats involved with her on the 15th of September, and then being able to replicate them. Would imagine there should be a lot of photographic evidence or footage on such a historic occasion as her maiden journey. Here’s hoping 🤞 Again thank you guys, means a lot getting your help. 👌

[Jeff59]

6 hours ago, madtatt said:

Glad I can help, Jeff.
I'm still waiting for a response from my friend in Hamburg; he's very busy at the moment. The good thing is, we have plenty of time until you're ready. The ship model itself will keep you busy for a while. 😉

Plenty of time, that’s a mild understatement 😂 cheers Jolle 🤛

[Jeff59]

Did just notice on this photo stating it was 15th September that there’s two tugs attending the stern, some very nice houses in background but l think the display base might be a bit OTT 😂

Edited April 30 by Jeff59

[madtatt]

With this little ship, the houses don't matter anymore. 😂

[Jeff59]

11 hours ago, madtatt said:

With this little ship, the houses don't matter anymore. 😂

Thank god for that, just saved me a year’s modelling 😂

[Jeff59]

Was having another look at you’re build and clocked the Yamato next to Bismarck, first thoughts were bloody hell 😂 need to purchase this model, do have the Nickimo kit but it’s pretty naff now compared to what’s on market. You’re build on Mikasa is turning out stunning, know surprises there then 😂 🤛

[madtatt]

Yes, Jeff, you need this Yamato from "Glow2B." It's fantastic. Compared to that, the "Nichimo" model is complete rubbish.

The two of us will then build two glorious, giant monster ship models from it. 😁

[Jeff59]

On 6/26/2025 at 3:46 AM, madtatt said:

Yes, Jeff, you need this Yamato from "Glow2B." It's fantastic. Compared to that, the "Nichimo" model is complete rubbish.

The two of us will then build two glorious, giant monster ship models from it. 😁

I’m up for that, if l live long enough 😂 Me being me l fancy doing her as she was initially designed, before the Aircraft Carrier became top dog, that is to say with her secondary armament also fitted amidships, think she looked so awesome on her side profile like this. 🤛 Small matter off Bismarck first then even smaller matter off Titanic next, any guesses when you think will be starting Yamato, more chance off winning the National Lotery than getting this right 😂😂 🤛

[madtatt]

On 7/17/2025 at 7:40 PM, Jeff59 said:

I’m up for that, if l live long enough 😂 Me being me l fancy doing her as she was initially designed, before the Aircraft Carrier became top dog, that is to say with her secondary armament also fitted amidships, think she looked so awesome on her side profile like this. 🤛 Small matter off Bismarck first then even smaller matter off Titanic next, any guesses when you think will be starting Yamato, more chance off winning the National Lotery than getting this right 😂😂 🤛

 

I also really like the early look of the Yamato. That's why I've been looking for the additional turrets. You can get them from this company, for example...

 

Yamato 155mm Turret

[Jeff59]

6 hours ago, madtatt said:

 

I also really like the early look of the Yamato. That's why I've been looking for the additional turrets. You can get them from this company, for example...

We seem to be on the same wavelength, only difference is your busy building and lm not. 😂 Trying to source a wooden deck for my Bismarck by Scaledeck just now, seems a bit of a challenge down to availability, have just joined their emailing list, fingers crossed. 🤞

Yamato 155mm Turret

 

[Jeff59]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:42 PM, Old Collingwood said:

Simply amazing  beyond belief,  one of the  best builds  I have seen   - Incredibly  talented.

Have to agree, one unique and beautiful model, an inspiration to us all 🤛

OC.

 

[Jeff59]

Jolle, a question for you on Bismarck, l have cut sections out for fitting sonar points on bow and am now questioning if these actually existed or was it just speculated for future set up, this is shown on Stefan Draminski’s excellent book on Bismarck, interested on your opinion on this. I can easily plug up the holes l have cut. Do want it to be correct for time period, help much appreciated 🤛

[madtatt]

Good morning, Jeff.
Let's not misunderstand each other, you're talking about the Bismarck's group listening device, right?! (Gruppenhorchgerät)

 

Arrow on the photo.

 

Edited August 1 by madtatt

[Jeff59]

Crossed wires Jolle, it’s the sonar points at the very front of bow and on port and starboard sides. Just don’t see any photographic evidence if these points existed, easy enough to fix if they don’t exist.  Thanks for your input again 👍🤛

[Jeff59]

3 minutes ago, Jeff59 said:

Crossed wires Jolle, it’s the sonar points at the very front of bow and on port and starboard sides. Just don’t see any photographic evidence if these points existed, easy enough to fix if they don’t exist.  Thanks for your input again 👍🤛

 Another photo from Stefan’s book on Bismarck   Item2 active sonar ?

[madtatt]

Hi Jeff.
So that's what this is about. This is a controversial point.
First, these photos.

 

 

 

I think there's no sign of these structures on it.
But there's also the opinion that they were added later.
The opinions are 50/50.
So, since you've already tested it, I'd add it. It definitely sets itself apart from the mainstream.

Edited August 3 by madtatt

[Jeff59]

1 hour ago, madtatt said:

Hi Jeff.
So that's what this is about. This is a controversial point.
First, these photos.

 

 

 

I think there's no sign of these structures on it.
But there's also the opinion that they were added later.
The opinions are 50/50.
So, since you've already tested it, I'd add it. It definitely sets itself apart from the mainstream.

Thanks again Jolle, l have been reading through Stefan’s book and trying to to weigh up options, under paragraph ( other equipment) he mentions the battleship received this active sonar device and that it was fitted in section XVI ? Can’t see this section, last watertight compartment forward is XXII, l am thinking if she was launched with this not visible then it would have to have been installed when she entered into floating dock to have her propellers and MES cable installed, this was between 23d June and 14th July, that doesn’t seem to leave much time for cutting into the hull and installation, just speculating here, thinking that’s a tight schedule. Thinking if this is the floating dock don’t see any photographic evidence activity on this area ? Put this photo up  Thinking off taking the hull back to being flush. You know what they say , photos don’t lie, unless they are doctored of coarse 😂 again thanks for your valued input 🤛

[Jeff59]

2 hours ago, Jeff59 said:

Thanks again Jolle, l have been reading through Stefan’s book and trying to to weigh up options, under paragraph ( other equipment) he mentions the battleship received this active sonar device and that it was fitted in section XVI ? Can’t see this section, last watertight compartment forward is XXII, l am thinking if she was launched with this not visible then it would have to have been installed when she entered into floating dock to have her propellers and MES cable installed, this was between 23d June and 14th July, that doesn’t seem to leave much time for cutting into the hull and installation, just speculating here, thinking that’s a tight schedule. Thinking if this is the floating dock don’t see any photographic evidence activity on this area ? Put this photo up  Thinking off taking the hull back to being flush. You know what they say , photos don’t lie, unless they are doctored of coarse 😂 again thanks for your valued input 🤛

 

[Jeff59]

Section XVI is at hull beside Bruno turret, but Stefan relates to it at the stem. Guessing that’s just a small mix up. Going by the coloured photo, if this is indeed her in the floating dock and no signs of activity in a three week window, what’s the chances of cutting into the hull and installing and welding this all in place, it’s not a small straight forward job. This is planting seed of doubt in my head, as l mentioned it’s not difficult to rectify this, just want to make sure l make right decision.

[Jeff59]

Personally l think if the sonar points had been installed there would be photos of this, it is after all a very highly documented construction, think this modification might have been on cards for her first refit or maintenance schedule. Starting to get the itch to get back into this model now. About time l hear everyone else saying 😂 Again thanks for input Jolle. Looking forward to to seeing your progress on Mikasa 🤛

[Jeff59]

Just noticed another detail on this colorised photo that raises question’s as to it’s authenticity, the aft structure doesn’t appear to be built.

[Canute]

You might want to consider that there was wartime censorship of these weapons systems. Or it could just be their construction sequence. Cross reference several photos, if available,

[madtatt]

On 8/4/2025 at 11:04 AM, Jeff59 said:

Personally l think if the sonar points had been installed there would be photos of this, it is after all a very highly documented construction, think this modification might have been on cards for her first refit or maintenance schedule. Starting to get the itch to get back into this model now. About time l hear everyone else saying 😂 Again thanks for input Jolle. Looking forward to to seeing your progress on Mikasa 🤛

 

I agree, Jeff. 👍
And I'll continue working on the Mikasa a bit soon.😉

[Jeff59]

On 8/17/2025 at 5:54 PM, madtatt said:

 

I agree, Jeff. 👍
And I'll continue working on the Mikasa a bit soon.😉

We’re on the same boat then 😂 👍 Had some major jobs around the house to sort out and my shed so just about done now. Really looking forward to forward to relaxing and modelling again 🤞

[madtatt]

@Jeff59

Ah yes, if real life didn't always distract you from the beautiful things. 😁
Model building is like meditation for me when I come home from work and enter this little microcosm. 🧘‍♂️

I'm already looking forward to seeing what happens next with your Bismarck. 🫵😉

Edited August 28 by madtatt

[Joe100]

The system on the bow you’re referring to is S-Anlage active sonar. The photos posted here predate the installation. The photo of the ship in dry dock, the colorized one, that was taken in the autumn of 1940, and the S-anlage equipment was likely installed around December. Details of this are sketchy due to the enormous secrecy the KM placed around all of its sonar, EMII, and EMIII devices. Here is an excerpt from my book:
 

Active and Passive Sound Systems

 

Codenamed Sonderfernsteueranlage (special remote control system), the Bismarck was fitted with the S-Anlage sonar system, an early active and passive sonar designed to detect ships, submarines, tethered mines, and even incoming torpedoes. The installation was located in Section XVI of the ship, with the main transmitting and receiving unit housed in a cut-out at the bulbous bow. In addition to this forward installation, two more oscillators were positioned further back on either side of the bow. The bow section itself could swivel up to 270°, providing a broad underwater scanning arc.

 

The S-Anlage operated by emitting a horizontal sound pulse and then recording the returning echoes, a principle essentially identical to later sonar technology. Information was displayed on a Braun tube (an early cathode-ray tube screen), where the distance to a detected object was measured in hectometers (1 hectometer = 100 meters). The system offered a maximum range of 15,000 meters (15 km) and an accuracy of ±2°, making it effective for determining both range and bearing.

 

In practice, the sonar was capable of identifying a variety of underwater threats, including submarines, surface ships, tethered mines, and torpedoes. Against torpedoes, in particular, it theoretically gave Bismarck some capacity to respond to incoming attacks. However, sonar technology in the early 1940s remained primitive, lacking the precision and real-time tracking ability of modern systems.

 

The equipment was developed by several manufacturers, including Atlas Werke (Bremen), Elac (Kiel), and AEG, although it is uncertain which company supplied the unit actually installed on Bismarck. While the S-Anlage represented a significant step forward, it was not advanced enough to deliver the kind of comprehensive situational awareness available with later generations of sonar. Nevertheless, its combination of active and passive capability, together with its swiveling detection head, marked it as a forerunner of more modern naval sonar systems.

 

No known photographs of Bismarck’s S-Anlage installation exist. Evidence suggests it was fitted in very late 1940; surviving photographs of the ship in drydock are either from before its installation or were deliberately censored to conceal the equipment.

 

 

So if you’re modeling Bismarck in 1941, she should be fitted with the S-Anlage in the bow. There is a grainy photo of the S-Anlage oscillators fitted to Lützow if you care to have a google.
 

Also fitted at the same time (~December 1940) were new propellers, but no photos of these exist. The variable pitch screws were removed and single cast screws installed. If this wasn’t carried out in December it was done by February 1941. 

Edited Sunday at 01:12 PM by Joe100