Caldercraft H.M.S. Victory

[David Johnson]

Dear Friends

I am presently building the H.M.S Victory by Caldercraft

I am using the suggested paints that come with the kit

As I am not and expert, I look online for advise and suggestions and find the photographs particularly helpful.

It seems to me that most photos seem to show a lighter yellow colour is being used rather than the Yellow Ochre supplied.

I understand that most people want authenticity, however the more I look the more I want to use a brighter yellow colour

Would be most grateful for any advise on a colour

Regards

David

[allanyed]

Welcome to MSW David.

Obviously there are no color photos of the Victory  in the 19th century so color photos we see are modern era colors.  They may be a close match, but maybe not.  Also, prints are not necessarily the same as the actual color if you saw the ship in person.  Go with what makes you happy but whatever you choose, consider going with high quality artist tubed acrylics, not the bottled craft paints. 

 

 Two of the most important differences between craft paints and artist acrylics have to do with pigment content and lightfastness. Artist acrylics have higher pigment content than craft paints, making the colors of artist acrylics more vibrant and deep. Artist acrylics have a higher viscosity than the bottled paints.
The bottled paints are not as lightfast as artist acrylics, which means that they will fade more quickly.  By the same token you can protect the bottled paint with a protective varnish, but if you want the colors of your paintings to stay true for many years, go with artist acrylics.

 

Allan

[flyer]

Allan's advice is of course good and sound - and you really are your own skipper and use the paint you like.

However to ensure a lasting joy of your build I would like you to consider something I also wrote in my present build log:

(In a book, written by a professional model railroad landscape builder he explains about colour scale. By that he means that if you look at a model in scale 1/100 from a distance of 50cm it should look the same as the prototype from a distance of 50m. And from that distance colours look less bright because of the air absorbing some of the intensity. He says that's the reason that models tend to look like toys if you use original colours. He recommends to always mix in a bit of white or grey and to avoid shiny colours.)

Following this advice I always mix about 15% of dull white into all paints, including black. And I use only dull colours. Some very nicely built models are in my opinion made to look like cheap toys, only because of the use of too bright and gaudy colours.

 

Peter

[OllieS]

I went to see Victory a couple of years ago. 

Research has been done on the many layers of paint and the colour has changed over time. As a child I remember a nice bright yellow for example.

Now using the latest research scientist have determined the colour in 1805 and painted the ship accordingly. It is a horrible sort of pinkish beige. Nelson didn't like it and asked for some new paint apparently. At the time colours in quantity were very limited i.e. red ochre, yellow ochre, black and white and I'm guessing they were short on yellow.

My next model will be Victory and I intend to use yellow ochre. Nelson would approve

 

 

[Morgan]

The only artist who both visited Victory after Trafalgar and produced paintings of the ship was JMW Turner. In his paintings he shows a light yellow ochre and a greyish black. This is in keeping with Flyer’s post above on scale and is what I believe you would get were you to tone down her present colour scene.

 

Attached below is a screenshot of Turner’s Battle of Trafalgar.

 

Gary

[allanyed]

I wonder how much the colors in the painting have changed over the past 200 years.  Has the Turner painting been restored or is it the aged original?  You can see a lot of restored paintings on the net to get an idea of how much paint color can change over the years for a variety of reasons.

 

Allan

 

[Morgan]

There are usually 3 main issues causing discolouration. Firstly dirt, second paintings being varnished, and the oil paints themselves changing, but most of this happens in the first year after painting.

 

But having stood within just a few feet of this large painting last year it is in very good condition and clean, no sign of any discolouration from varnish - which most conservators remove these days anyway.

 

To what extent the paint itself may have changed is hard to tell.

 

Gary

[David Johnson]

Thank you all for your advise

I will try using Acrylic paint, I was thinking of bright yellow ochre could anyone advise on an exact colour as their are so many shades

[allanyed]

Look at a color chart of a given brand against the painting and you can see what colors are close.  If you want an exact match you will most likely need to mix colors to get what you want.  The below is how I would start, in this case using Liquitex, my favorite acrylic tubed paint that is easy to find,  I also attached a PDF which may be more clear.

 

Allan

Liquitex chart against painting.PDF

 

[Theodosius]

Well, William turner was an artist. I would _never_ take the colours from an artist's painting as "real/given/natural/true/etc, etc" without an intensive study of his work, his life, his periods of development, etc, etc. Then one would need even more intense studys of the painting in question, to find out, what time of a day/sunlight/wether/ect, ect. it shows, to alter the colours in respect of that. And not finished jet, I need to find out, what impression the painter wants to give, and what he did to receive that. And after that, perhaps(!) it might be possible to get an iear of the appearance of an object, and then I still would not give my solution of my studyies anythink like an legitimazion to say it is the 'right' one. 

 

For me, the two sources with the most legitimisation are the scientific research on the real Victory, and the contemorary modells. But for the modells one have to find out, how the colours have changest just because of they're age and possible uv-irradiation from real sun light.

 

My conclusion: do what you like best, as long as you don't want to build an object sold to an museum 😉

 

PS: very important: this is just my point of view! 🙂

Edited October 17, 2023 by Theodosius
PS...

[GrandpaPhil]

I used “Antique Gold” by Delta Ceramcoat for mine.

 

It worked well for me.

[Cold_Fire]

Artesanía Latina has released paints with their new cross section model matching the last repainting of the ship, in case you can be interested.