Endeavour by Bill97 - OcCre - 1/54

[Bill97]

Ian here is an additional picture of the crossjack from the Endeavour AOTS book and the number legend. It only shows a sling, lift, horses, stirrups, braces, and a truss. 🤷

[Ian_Grant]

Lower yards are not readily lowered, normally, except by jeers which your AOTS diagram does not show.

 

As for lower lifts, they have to run forward of the shrouds,no choice (they can't run through them).  When the lower yard is braced round, the windward end will be further forward and its lift goes nowhere near the shrouds; on the other hand the leeward yard end will be abaft the mast and they'd have to slacken that lift to prevent it twanging against the forward shroud. I expect the only time both lifts are nice and taut is at anchor when the yards are squared for appearances, or maybe when running before the wind.

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. My lifts do not run through the shrouds but twang (your great word) up against them. What I think I am going to do is put an eyebolt nearer the front of the top in the area where my tweezer is pointing and run the lift to it. The AOTS has the eyebolt under the top. Your opinion of this. 

Edited February 17 by Bill97

[Bill97]

Ok Ian this what I ended up with. What do you think?  Not tied down yet

[Ian_Grant]

Looks fine to me Bill. Blind leading the blind.

[alpayed]

Hi Guys.

It was vary rare to have a sail bent to the crossjack yard so it was never raised or lowered.

The crossjack yard did not carry Jeers. Only slings.

It would appear that the Crossjack yard used a Jeer block for the slings. It simply took the weight of the yard.

The Endeavour was right in the time of changes to the slings. AOTS book is correct for that time.

Just after this period the sling was similar to the fore and main slings without the block.

 

In this period there was a change in the lifts also. (Lees says 1805)

Instead of having a span around the cap it was attached to eye bolts closer to the fore part of the cap.

Endeavour probably had a span around the cap.

Keep in mind that the weight of the yard was taken mostly by the sling. The lifts were used to trim either end of the yard up.

When close hauled the end needing to be lifted (because it is being pulled downwards by the brace, weather leech and tack) and is forward and the lift pendent would clear the shrouds. 

The other end (touching the shroud) would be slack.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Allan

[Bill97]

Thanks Alan. I am reading through your comment a couple times for clarification and understanding. As you see in my comments the lifts were pressed tight against the first shroud with the crossjack squared. I moved the anchor point on the cap forward just a bit so the lifts barely miss touching the shrouds when taut. This anchor point is nearer where the top mast passes through the cap and less  wood thickness but I guess since they really did not carry weight this would be OK. 

Allan I am also curious while I have your attention, the Endeavour AOTS do s not show lifts for the topgallant yards. This is correct?

Ian we can both pick up some tips from Allan. 
Thanks both of you for your help. 

[alpayed]

The word lift can be a bit misleading. The halyards did the lifting. The lifts were there to hold the yard level when sailing. one side would not usually have tension on it. The side with tension would normally be the side of the yard rotated forward. (close hauled)

In this case it would then be clear of the shroud. the other side being slack. They were mainly to take the weight of the yard when lowered.

Harland notes that the lee lift (the one pointing backwards) rubbed on the foremost shroud and caused chaffing.

This is probably why a few years later the lifts were shifted to eye bolts on the fore part of the cap.

Although Lees states after 1805 I think the practice of using eye bolts in the cap probably occurred on some ships long before it became common practice.

 

On a ship like Endeavour there would not have been lifts on the topgallant yards.

The sail was often bent to the yard on deck before sending aloft.

Regards

Allan

 

[Bill97]

Thanks so much again Allan. I have never displayed one of my models this way but in cases where I have the sails unfurled I should have the yards rotated forward one side or the other, not squared?  As I glance around my “ship yard” I see all my ships have the yards squared, regardless of sail display and the lifts on both sides taut. This is not correct. Moving forward I should do that differently on future builds. On my current build, the Endeavour, I have all the sails furled and the yards squared. Should all the lifts be somewhat slack or taut?

[alpayed]

That's an interesting question. I guess the purpose of the model is to display all of the details of the ship in question.  Mission accomplished. To show actual function you would need to build a dioarma. They are an entirely different type of model.

You have produced a model featuring all of the details of the Endeavour and done really good job of it. It's time to sit back and enjoy the feeling of achievement. Well done.

Kind regards Allan.

[Bill97]

Allan I do enjoy a diorama. Here is my Heller Soleil Royal in a diorama. But as I look at it now, for authentic I should have had the yards turned a bit. 

[Bill97]

Slings, lifts, tyes, etc. installed at this point of the running rigging using a combination of OcCre instructions and the Endeavour AOTS. Thanks Ian and Allan for your advice.

[Bill97]

Well, as is often the case in my builds, I go two steps forward and and then one step back. I did the fore and main yard lifts following the OcCre instructions (photo 1).  Then looking through the AOTS for something else I discovered I had rigged them incorrectly (Photo 2). The OcCre instructions shows the lift coming back down to the end of the yard a second time and passing through the block that will be used for the sheets. The AOTS shows what I expect is the correct way. Removing the lifts and doing them correctly. 

[Bill97]

Marc you have any idea why the MSW site does this. I knew you didn’t react to my post 7 times in a 5 minute period 😀.  This happens from time to time. 

[Ian_Grant]

Marc's a speed reader; he read 7 of your posts in 7 minutes. 😏

[Bill97]

Oh that explains it! Thanks Ian 😀

[Bill97]

Ok gentlemen I need your help once again. I am looking at the rigging of the spritsail. In particular I am looking at line #7 in the first photo (spritsail course sheet) and trying to determine the belay points of both ends of this line. I have scoured the Endeavour AOTS and the OcCre instructions. Photo 2 from the AOTS shows one end of it tying off at point 12 on the side. I can’t find anything showing where the other end of the line ties off. In my other builds I checked both ends of the sheet are located near each other. On my Victory one end is secure and the other end passes through a hole in the bulwark where it then tied off to a cleat on the inside of the bulwark. 

[Bill97]

1 year anniversary today of the day I started my OcCre Endeavour. Will also be the day officially shown on my medical record that I lost my mind!  🤪

Rigging this beauty in accordance with the AOTS is a job not meant for the faint of heart. All those ropes will be tied down to their appropriate location. This is just the fire mast and the bowsprit. 

[Bill97]

Ian a general rigging question my friend. My plan at this point is not to add the staysails. I have seen several photos of the Endeavour replica and other square sail tall ships with out the staysail rigged. I assume this was often an option employed depending on conditions. My question is about what is done with the rigging lines that would be used on these sails?  Are they somehow attached to the sail when it is set and the ropes then dropped to the belay points. Or are the ropes always there just not attached to the staysails?  Similar question about the bowlines on the square sails. If I have them furled would they bowlines still be attached to the sail only extending from the end of the rolled up sail and still going to the belay points?  

[Ian_Grant]

Hi Bill. Good questions. I don't have definitive answers. I'll give you my impressions as formed by what little I know of seamanship. Two cents worth. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can correct me....

 

For the bowlines, I would expect that if in harbour, they would be removed to enhance a neat "harbour furl" of the sails. If at sea on a long blue-water voyage with the trade winds, perhaps not rigged either. If at sea in varying wind areas, then rigged.

 

Staysails? We would have the halyards, downhauls, and sheets to deal with. If a staysail was not bent, I would expect that the halyard and downhaul would be left in place if at sea as above. Obviously the sheets would be absent as they only attach to the sail. I'd guess the halyard and downhaul ends would be attached to each other or else both attached to a convenient point at the foot of the stay, If one wanted to bend the sail, one would haul it up to the foot of its stay and attach it by its hanks; then attach the halyard and downhaul to the head of the sail before hoisting it up. The "tack" would be a simple length of rope from the foot of the sail to a fixed point at the foot of the stay.

 

I believe the common thing to do on a model is either omit everything, or rig the halyard and downhaul as one continuous piece of thread or optionally as two pieces with their ends joined at a representative knot.

 

I looked in "Harland" and "Lees" for more info, but Lees is detailed in rig and short in explanations. Harland has staysail tidbits scattered throughout but nothing as detailed as what you ask, that I could find. Staysails always seem to be an afterthought in books; for instance Harland has an entire chapter on studding sails but no section on staysails. Even Longridge as you may recall lacks his usual detail when it comes to staysails.

 

Yours will be a beautiful model either way.

 

Regards,

Ian

Edited 18 hours ago by Ian_Grant

[Bill97]

Thanks my friend. I am going with omit everything then. Just the sails I have furled to the yards. Still have to add the angled one on the back connected to the mizzen mast (forget right now what it is called). 

[Ian_Grant]

"Spanker" or "Driver". 😉

[Bill97]

Spent some time adding cleats to the shrouds. OcCre has the lines going down to the center “thing”. AOTS has some of the rigging lines going to cleats attached to shrouds. 

Edited yesterday at 06:21 PM by Bill97

[Hubac's Historian]

On 2/21/2025 at 12:01 PM, Bill97 said:

Marc you have any idea why the MSW site does this. I knew you didn’t react to my post 7 times in a 5 minute period 😀.  This happens from time to time. 

I suppose my phone/identity has been busier than I’ve been - that’s alarming on several fronts.

 

Of course I am following the build, Bill, but not on that moment-to-moment degree.

 

I have to figure out how to put that shadow-energy to work for me 🤔😀

[Bill97]

Same here my friend. 😀

Have a fantastic weekend. Hope your dad is doing well.