HMS Greyhound by tennfox - Corel - 1:100 - building as USS Protector

[tennfox]

Hello Everyone.  I'm starting The HMS Greyhound.  Although, I will be converting her to the 1779 USS Protector. I've already communicated with Hamilton about the challenges of this endeavor.  I will most certainly be buying him a drink before, during and after the build. 

 

 

A little background and explanation before I start so I get my intentions across.  I have an ancestor, one Ebenezer Fox.  Said ancestor was alive and galivanting during the Revolutionary War.  Great Great Grandpa Ebenezer wrote a book called the Revolutionary Adventures of Ebenezer Fox. I attached a pdf version.  Young Ebenezer ran away from home and got aboard a US Navy Ship, The Protector.  He was present during its notable win against The DUFF.  He was also aboard during the battle with the Roebuck and Medea where it was captured by the British and renamed the HMS Hassar.

 

My plan is to convert this ship into The Protector.  My ancestor states that it was a 20 gun frigate, but other accounts has her listed as a 24-28 gunner.  I'm choosing to go by Great Grandpas description.   I plan to add sails, this kit has a sail plan, but no sails. First question is are the sail templates actual size? and is there enough wood for planking? the one package looks small.   My last kit was the 1768 Bark Endeavor by Artensia Latina and It had TONS of material.  I know I'm going to have to order more "parts".  I would appreciate assistance with a shopping list for those who have done this kit and discovered the wrong size parts. 

 

Im still in the planning stages and making sure everything is accounted for.  The pictures below are what I received.

 

I will post again once I begin, after the honey do's are competed.

 

 

Thank you all in advance.

adventures of ebeneezer foxe.pdf

[Old Collingwood]

This  sounds  ambitious  but good  luck,  I also  part  finished  this  kit, I got  the  Hull  95%   finished  then  gave up on her.

 

OC.

[Old Collingwood]

Is this  the  same  Frigate   -  

 

OC.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protector_(1779_frigate)

[tennfox]

Yes it is... I believe.  The records are sketchy, but Im going off what I can find.

 

According to Hamilton, Im gonna have use other resources to finish her.   Which could be good in this case.  Since the instructions are so bad, Ill have to go by other writings. and images of similar ships.   There are paintings of the Hassar, but that was after they converted her to a 28 gun frigate under british ownership.

 

 

[tennfox]

It has begun..  every single frame and keel slot needs to be fitted.

 

let the good times roll. 

[tennfox]

after reading the instruction book, I have a few questions.  The book says that the model is too small to have sails out. The kit comes with sail plans, but no cloth.  Has anyone put sails on their build?  can you share some photos?

 

I also noticed pretty quickly that the bulkheads are NOT symmetrical. I have gone thru and marked the side that was larger so when it came to shaping I would only take of from that side.  Am I thinking right? and did anyone else find this worked better for you? any tips?  Hamilton has already put me onto bulkhead  9 and 10... 

@homer @hamilton Please feel free to chime in on what I need to do to prepare for the next steps.  Im not looking for this to be a learning project as much as a conversion.  My first kit was an Artesenia Latina Bark Endeavor and I see I was SPOILED.  this kit is bare compared to the other, but i only have it because it matches Great Grandpas ship.  So the stearn will be reworked and the sails will be added, even if rolled up.  I would appreciate hints on thread size, and other things that need to be upgraded.  I may have to hand carve stuff to convert her to the Protector, but if I can see it, I can do it.  Thanks for the help.

Edited March 7 by tennfox

[hamilton]

Happy to act as a support for this build - as we've chatted about already, it's a tricky one, but it can make a very nice model with a bit of extra effort - and lot of extra patience! Post pics of any issues you encounter - my build was greatly assisted by @harlequin who also has a nice build of this kit, and @oldcollingwood, who has built this one as well. 

 

Try not to judge Corel too badly based on this kit! I've built a few Corel models and with the exception of this one they have all been of very good quality. And with this one, once you're past the framework things go smoothly - at least til it comes to the masting and rigging, which are woefully undersupported by the plans and instructions provided with the kit.....

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

If it helps at all  -  you can  look through my  build  log   for  her  -  might   give some  insight  into  her.

 

OC.

 

 

[tennfox]

 I've been studying both of y'alls builds. That's exactly why I'm going slow.  I've asked @Srenner for help and he's most graciously sending cad files on the correct size for hulls 9 and 10.  I just found this site,  but it's the best community I've been apart of.     Thank you all for that. 

 

Edited March 8 by tennfox

[hamilton]

I found a lot of help and support for my Greyhound/Blandford build and I am forever grateful to the MSW pros who lent their time and expertise there - couldn't have done it otherwise - I know you'll find the same as you go through - just don't be shy to ask!!

hamilton

[tennfox]

Alrighty.   Just finished mommas project of replacing all the doors in the house, now I can get back to working.

 

I've been talking with @Srenner about the evil 9 and 10 bulk heads.  I'm using his templates to build up the originals.    Thanks buddy,  you're awesome. 

 

I've started gluing the bulk heads.  To ensure they are square I'm wood gluing the bulk heads to the hull and .ca gluing blocks to keep them square.   Came upon a useful trick.   I'm using air gun nails as a square.    They are square enough and I can remove as many rows as I need to fit between the bulk heads.   I plan to use balsa wood as fillers between some of the bulk heads so I can get the proper lay of the planks, mostly for the dreaded 9 and 10.   Any and all tips and critiques are encouraged.  

Thanks all

On 3/7/2024 at 6:52 PM, hamilton said:

I found a lot of help and support for my Greyhound/Blandford build and I am forever grateful to the MSW pros who lent their time and expertise there - couldn't have done it otherwise - I know you'll find the same as you go through - just don't be shy to ask!!

hamilton

 

 

[tennfox]

Alrighty.   Just finished mommas project of replacing all the doors in the house, now I can get back to working.

 

I've been talking with @Srenner about the evil 9 and 10 bulk heads.  I'm using his templates to build up the originals.    Thanks buddy,  you're awesome. 

 

I've started gluing the bulk heads.  To ensure they are square I'm wood gluing the bulk heads to the hull and .ca gluing blocks to keep them square.   Came upon a useful trick.   I'm using air gun nails as a square.    They are square enough and I can remove as many rows as I need to fit between the bulk heads.   I plan to use balsa wood as fillers between some of the bulk heads so I can get the proper lay of the planks, mostly for the dreaded 9 and 10.   Any and all tips and critiques are encouraged.  

Thanks all

On 3/7/2024 at 6:52 PM, hamilton said:

I found a lot of help and support for my Greyhound/Blandford build and I am forever grateful to the MSW pros who lent their time and expertise there - couldn't have done it otherwise - I know you'll find the same as you go through - just don't be shy to ask!!

hamilton

 

 

[tennfox]

I've shimmed up 9 and 10 and it doesn't look enough.   Should they touch the bottom line?  

[Srenner]

Yes they should... just make the slots a bit deeper so it sits lower down. How much are you out by?

[Srenner]

11 looks a bit too deep. Move up a little 

[tennfox]

Bout 3 or 4 mms.   11 is flush with the hull on top.   Should it not be? I thought they were supposed to be flush for the deck to be on the bulk heads and hull.  If I lower them down that will screw up the top of the bulk heads,  or will they be cut down, later?

Edited March 16 by tennfox

[tennfox]

I did some more build up on 10 and ,  how do they look? 

[hamilton]

Sorry if I'm chiming in late - the bottoms of the bulkhead edges should all line up with the rough bearding line I can see running along the length of the centre keel close to the bottom. This line should start gently curving up at around bulkhead 10 and then make a sharper curve upwards towards the back edge of that last slot on the centre keel where the transom bulkhead goes - this is called the "bearding line" - I'm not sure and can't remember if it's shown anywhere on the Corel plans, but take a look at see....identifying and transferring that line to the centre keel on both sides will help with the shimming up of those faulty bulkheads.

 

Nice to see the progress on this build!!

hamilton

[hamilton]

PS - in your last pic B/H 10 looks way better!! 

hamilton

[tennfox]

Nope nothing in the plans,  are we surprised?   I shaped some more,  I think 12 needs to come up a couple mms.   Is this what you  were taking about? 

[Srenner]

I cut down the tops of the bulkheads after I made the bottom section fit better and also drew that line on. And that's where the planks will rebate into the keel along that line

[tennfox]

 Do you remember how much needed to come of the tops? 

[tennfox]

Looking at old collingsworths hull,  it looks like mine needs to be cut down.   The added strip at the bottom seems to be the end of the bulk heads. Am I seeing that right?  Should the keel sweep up at the bow and stem or remain straight across?   That was step one in the book.  No mention of the correct bearding line location at all

[tennfox]

It does appear I have to cut the keel off and plane the plywood down and reattach the keel.  The first image is the first and second plank material on the bulk heads.   I believe I need to plane down to the pencil line.   Should that line go straight line the original or does it need to sweep up.?

Man this kit is a challenge. Lucky its wood, you can always glue sand and fill, then redo...

Edited March 16 by tennfox

[hamilton]

Don't cut the keel!!!! Shim the bulkheads instead - it is easier to take wood off that you've added than to add back wood you've removed, so it is much safer to correct the structural issue you're facing by shimming up the bulkhead edges.

 

When I look at your photos, here's what I see:

 

1. the mid-ships bulkheads look good - they seem to finish touching the top of the bearding line and they look reasonably even.

 

2. Bulkheads 9/10, which you've already modified, now also look good to me - they imply a nice gentle curve for the run aft of the planking

 

3. The last bulkhead forward of the transom looks like it needs trimming up - you'll see that the bottom intersects the bearding line, which it should not do - imagine a curve along the bottom of the bulkheads up to the aft edge of the slot for the transom bulkhead - you need to adjust your bulkheads to fit along that line.

 

4. The 4th bulkhead from the forwardmost one seems to rise too soon - and the 3rd one back is too high for sure and will need to be shimmed like B/H 9/10. There is also a gentle curving of the bearding line up the stem - b/h 1 & 2 in your photo look good, but 3 is way too high to allow for that nice curve you should see at the bows. 

 

Finally - a word of encouragement. This is by far the most difficult and frustrating part of this build. It took me a long time to get through it and this was my 12th wooden ship kit, so I had some experience. Do not give up no matter how frustrating it may get. And do not hold yourself to results that the kit itself may make it really difficult to achieve. 

hamilton

[tennfox]

thanks brother.  I was going by oldcollingsworth image of his build.

So I should build up the bulkheads down to the bottom like this picture?  Is his line correct enough to mirror for mine?  I worried that if i try to build them all up to the false keel then Ill mess up the "line" especially on 11-12 since its so thin.

 

Thanks for the encouragement!!!

[hamilton]

Yes - OC has achieved a great result here - if you can get yours looking like this, you'll be ready to move on. You don't have to build them up to the keel. Just to fit along the bearding line - here is an MSW thread that talks about the bearding and rabbet lines - the ships uses as e.g.'s aren't exactly like Greyhound but you will get the principle and general idea from this.

 

 

hamilton

[tennfox]

 Once again I owe you a drink... Thanks

[tennfox]

Been working on building up the bulk heads.   They are all kind of wonky.   How are these looking.?  I think I have the length/drop close.  

[hamilton]

Tack some planking strips across the bulkheads to see how they want to run - look to see if the strip is either bowing out or leaving a gap to the bulkhead. I usually run a test strip across 4-5 bulkheads and then move fore and aft and from the rails to the keel in this way to identify where things need to be sanded down or built up. Don't worry about the forward most 3 frames for now - you'll be fairing them for planking later so for now you just want to make sure you have a reasonably fair and smooth framework for the planking. The best way to ensure this is by "rack of eye", and it's hard from a photo or two to get a 100% sure assessment of the situation. However, when I look at how the bottoms of the bulkheads line up in the photo above they look ok to me.

 

The current distance between the bulkhead bottoms and the bearding line is probably ok, because it will get filled up by the roughly 2mm of planking that goes over the bulkheads. Do some testing with a planking strip, take your time and try to get things as fair as possible. This hobby is a matter of fractions of inches and millimetres, so it can be quite exacting - particularly at this stage, where getting all the parts correct relative to one another is of crucial importance. I think your skeleton is shaping up well though, by the looks of it. 

hamilton