HMS Echo by Hamilton - 1:48 - Admiralty Models - cross-section

[hamilton]

Well this is probably ill-advised, but I've decided to start on the Admiralty Models HMS Echo cross-section (1:48). I actually ordered the framing package for this kit from Crown Timberyard way back in....I can't even remember when....a long enough while ago....and in fact a number of years ago I put together the keel, false keel & rising wood for this build - getting a feel for my then newly purchased mini table saw and disc sander. But since then I haven't done anything, taking some time off modelling and then finishing both the Bluenose and my little Off Center sailing skiff and commencing on Corel's HMS Bellona. 

 

Bellona is currently at the stage of the second layer of lower planking - a time when I frequently tire of the slow and repetitive work of planking and try to build momentum by breaking it up not with other work, but by starting a totally different model! This is why I say "ill-advised"....but....

 

I also sometimes use new model builds as excuses to expand the workshop - this is one of those times. Because I absolutely needed a drill press to drill out the mounting holes in the keel/rising wood assembly, right? Plus the numerous other uses that this tool will see in the shop....right? In any case, I feel that with the drill press my tool complement is complete so at least I can close that chapter....for now.

 

So here are a couple of images of the keel/rising wood assembly - the rabbet still needs a bit of cleaning up on both sides, but otherwise, I'm pretty happy with the results. Next I'll be making a building board, drilling out the mounting holes & then starting on the framing - my first time at this, unless you count a couple of test futtocks I cut out several years ago as a trial....in any case, not sure how quickly this will go, but I'm looking forward to this one as a new type of challenge. Bye for now

hamilton

Edited May 2 by hamilton
Change of title - this is not an "Admiralty-style" model, but came from Admiralty Models, as was

[dvm27]

Terrific start. If you haven't downloaded the instructions from our website http://chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://admiraltymodels.homestead.com/Echo_cross-section_framing_instructions.pdf

please do so. They're free but not sure how long the website will remain there.

[hamilton]

Thanks Greg! I made a point of downloading those a while back, along with the fitting out instructions - in addition to the boxwood framing package for the cross section, I also bought a supply of un-milled boxwood from Crown Timberyard when were at the end of their operation and a friend generously milled this into three 2" x 3" x 36" lengths - I assume this will be more than enough for the fitting out of the cross-section - I downloaded the wood list and once the framing is done, I'll get to have yet another new experience - putting my bandsaw, Byrnes thickness sander, and mini table saw to work milling boxwood sheets and strips!

 

In any case, I hope I can do justice to this build - and learn from the experience and the many other excellent Echo builds out there. Bye for now

hamilton

[hamilton]

Quick question for @dvm27 - or really for anyone who has a knowledge of this....I've now drilled the mounting holes into the keel assembly and I have a supply of 6-32 machine screws at hand for the mounting - but I can't find any info in the instructions about the actual process of mounting the keel assembly on the building board....for some reason, my limited "common sense" is stumbling over this.....

 

I assume I have to set the nuts for the machine screws into the keel assembly after shaping the holes to admit them and then epoxy them in place, then mark out & drill corresponding holes in to the building board and fasten the machine screws in from below? The issue is how to widen the holes without really damaging the part - carefully, yes...but I can't imagine a 1/4" chisel is going to do the job.....any hints would be greatly appreciated! Thanks and bye for now

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

Hi mate,    looking forward  to this  -  are  you tempted to  do a  dio out  of  it  using some  figures?

 

OC.

[hamilton]

Hey OC - no diorama for me - I do not have the patience for painting figures at scale and my eyes are just bad enough for ship modelling! Though I see from your signature that you have both the patience and the skill! Is this project documented somewhere here or elsewhere?

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

Indeed   brother    -  it  is  kind  of  long  at  89  pages  and  over   117K  likes,   here   it  is    -    

OC.

 

[VTHokiEE]

9 hours ago, hamilton said:

I assume I have to set the nuts for the machine screws into the keel assembly after shaping the

I simply tapped the keel and screwed the nuts into it. This method is referenced in the associated PowerPoint on their website. 
 

I’m certain that you can do it other ways as well. Looking forward to your build! 

[dvm27]

I use 6-32 threaded rod and 6/32 Acorn nut or knurled knob. The rod comes in 12" lengths so it can be trimmed to a custom size. I thread the acorn nut onto one end. You will drill two hoes in the building board that correspond with the holes in the keel. make them slightly larger than the keel holes to allow for adjustments on the building board. Do not tap these holes. Now insert the threaded rods with the acorn nut on the end through a washer, then building board and thread into the keel. continue until the acorn nut snugs against the washer. Mark the exit of the threaded rod where atop the heel and cut flush. I don't glue mine into place as it us helpful to remove the hull sometimes (especially when fairing). I do glue the acorn nut onto the threaded rod once the final position of the threaded rod is determined (using Loctite).

[hamilton]

Thanks VTHokiEE and Greg - thanks for this - I'm a little worried now that the holes I drilled in the keel assembly are too wide - but I will follow up on these suggestions and see! I see now that I'll have to get myself a tap & die set! The Admiral has started to levy what she calls a "practicality tax" on my tool purchases....meaning that I need to start using the things I buy for more than ship modelling.....starting to realise how much my modelling practice depends on the the policy directions of the Central Bank of Canada....

hamilton

[davec]

I can't remember what sized nut and bolt I used.  I wanted a size with an available bolt long enough to go through a pedestal when the model was complete.  I cut slots in the keel with my mill.  I had to file down the sides of the nuts to fit in the slot and epoxied them in place.  I thought about threading the wood, but didn't have a tap and die, and was worried that if I removed and reattached the model to the base too many times that the threads in the wood would wear out.  

 

I got a drill press for similar reasons this Christmas.  I've used it a few times.  It looks really nice in the shop.  As long as I have the tools needed to meet my wife's around the house and craft needs she's pretty forgiving of my tool buying.  I scored a lot of points cutting foam board for her this weekend.  I think she thinks I used my entire workshop doing it - I won't tell her it was just a knife and straightedge.

 

The cross section is a great project and builds into a beautiful model.  I'm looking forward to following along.

Edited April 29 by davec

[hamilton]

Thanks Davec! Very helpful suggestions all around! I agree that all of a sudden my little hobby shop looks pretty pro with the drill press set-up! In fact, I've already got some ideas about re-organising and renovating the work area to allow for more permanent tool set-up - right now, I store my power tools and bring them out when needed - it's not too bad, but it's getting to the point where the time I spend taking things out, setting them up and putting them back relative to the time I spend at the bench is getting annoyingly skewed....but I have a fence to re-do and a deck to resurface first or it'll be gunplay and gravestones over here.....

hamilton

[hamilton]

So over lunch today I walked up to the local hardware store (located dangerously close to my house) and picked up a tap & die set to resolve the mounting question asked above - thanks again Dave and VTHokiEE! It took about 1 minute to tap the mounting holes I drilled out yesterday and I was very relieved to find that I hadn't drilled the holes out too wide for the 6-32 tap. A small step, but this lightened up a huge area of ignorance for me in terms of this aspect of modelling. Here are some photos, just to liven things up a bit, though they may not be of much intrinsic interest. The second shot is of the tiny puncture made by the awl - hard to get focus on this.....

hamilton

[hamilton]

Over the last several days I constructed the building board for the Echo cross-section - a fairly straightforward process, though aligning the mounting holes in the keel with their positions on the building board tested my eyes and patience....I used 3/4" MDF for the board, painted with 3 coats of matte white acrylic, with two 1 x 2 strips for support.

 

To trace the centre line, I first extended the centre line markings on the breadth plan drawing supplied by Admiralty models. I then positioned this drawing centred on the building board and extended the centre line from the plan sheet to the top and bottom of the building board. Once the plan sheet was removed, I could then connect these two short lines, scribe them with a #11 blade and retrace for emphasis. In a way this process was unnecessary, since the plan sheet is fixed to the building board, but having the centre line on the board provided the necessary reference for aligning the plan sheet with the centre line once I was ready to adhere the plans to the board.

 

I ended up threading the holes in the building board as my 6-32" machine screws were not able to fit through the holes as drilled, but fit perfectly once they were properly threaded. I was quite satisfied when the keel assembly fit nice and snug on the mounting screws along the centre line of the board! At this stage, I am considering making some right angle squares since the ones I have are either too large or too small for the scale of the cross-section. I made some right angle squares from 1/8" acrylic sheet a while ago and these might serve - but I have to find them first!! If your workshop is like mine then you know what a challenge this can be!

 

I also cut out the various parts that make up the framing square that slides over the keel assembly to ensure verticality of the frames - but I've yet to complete this stage....once this is done I'll be moving on to the framing, which is both exciting and a little nerve-wracking...Going to spend some time studying the information provided by Admiralty models, sort out the frame components and boxwood sheets appropriately and set up for constructing the frames....

 

Enjoy the photos and bye for now

hamilton

 

[hamilton]

Another (hopefully quick) question for you, @dvm27. I've been studying the document called "Echo Cross Section Frame Components", which provides tables giving info on the sided dimensions of frame components, and the drawing of the disposition of frame, and I think I must be missing something in relation to Frame 2 (Aft).

 

On the Frame Components document, there is information given for the 3rd futtock (cut from 9" stock), but none given for the chock or second futtock - this is the case both port and starboard. If I read the table correctly, I'm to attach the 8" 3rd futtock of frame 2 to the 10.5" floor of frame 2 directly using a 10.5" chock - is this right? I know this frame is line with the gunport, so perhaps that explains things.

 

But when I checked this against the disposition of frame drawing, I noticed that a) there are 2 measures given on the 2nd futtock - 8.5" in the lower part and 8" at the upper part - I assume this indicates a taper, rather than two futtocks, since there is no line dividing a 2nd & 3rd futtock as can be seen in the other aft frames.....is that right?

 

Thanks for any clarification you can provide - I hope my explanation of the problem I'm having is clear.....

hamilton

[hamilton]

A bit more progress on Echo. I took some time over the weekend and studied the framing tables supplied by Admiralty for the cross-section, sorted through wood, made copies of the frame patterns and started work on the deadflat frame. I also made the framing square jig, the pattern for which is also included with the other documentation for this build - it is suggested to use heavy card for this, but having an ample supply of 1/16" basswood strip, I decided to use that. 

 

For the deadflat frame, I first cut out templates of the individual frame elements, but realised that cutting and refining the chocks and cross chocks might be done more precisely and efficiently if I made billets for this purpose. The chocks and crosschocks are made from different thicknesses of boxwood depending on their location - 10.5", 10" and 8.25". The cross chocks for the forward frames are all 10". So I made 4 billets - 1 10.5" x 5/8" x 3 1/4", 1 10" x 5/8" x 3 1/4", 1 8.25" x 5/8" x 2 1/4" and for the cross chocks 10" x 1 3/4" x 2 1/2". I cut these billets over long for the number of chocks required so I could use the excess as a handle to refine the angled portions of the chocks on my disc sander. The straight edge will be cut using a chisel and refined by hand.

 

I have yet to refine the futtocks so the images below show them as I rough cut them on the bandsaw.

 

Enjoy and bye for now!

hamilton

 

[hamilton]

Minor update on the deadflat frame. The chocks and cross chock are now cut out and I think my approach to doing this (at least provisionally) works ok. As noted above, I made a few billets of boxwood for the cross chocks and the chocks, since I felt that it would be very hard for me to make these if I was just trying to cut them out of the larger sheets along with the futtocks.

 

I position the template of the chock/cross chock at the end of the appropriate billets - in this case, they were all cut from 10" stock - with the angled side at 1 edge. I then use the disc sander to shave the angled portions down - not quite fully, so I can finish them off more carefully by hand with a sanding block. I then cut along the straight edge on the scroll saw to release them from the billet - I was worried that this would be really hard to achieve since the pieces are so small, but it actually proved not too difficult. Some light final finishing with sanding block and files and presto! I now only need to refine the futtocks and then get into the joinery....the kind of finnicky work that normally defeats my lazy and distracted nature, but that I'm determined to really get right! The final shot, below, shows the chocks loosely put together with the futtocks, and it shows I've got some ways still to go before I can finalise the assembly and raise the frame....but I'm enjoying this far more than I feared I might! Hopefully that feeling lasts!!

hamilton

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Have a look at the wood grain for the chocks. In your pictures it has the wrong direction. You should turn the template by 90 degrees.

[hamilton]

Thanks for the tip Christian! This process is not intuitive for me, and I appreciate the guidance!

hamilton

[druxey]

Yes; Christian is absolutely correct: Whenever possible, run the grain along a piece, not across it. Avoid cross-grain! As you had it is weak and prone to snap.

[hamilton]

Continuing with the framing - I've now assembled, but not fully completed, the deadflat frame - it remains still to clean up the edges a little, trim down the portion of the chock that steps down from the first futtock to the toptimber, and add trunnels at the futtock joints. I will say that, though my joinery work leaves a lot to be desired (and indicates the need for more practice), I'm pretty pleased with the results. Of course, it's just one frame, so I have to be a bit reserved and wait to see how things shape up as keep going. 

 

I started working on the deadflat 1 frame today - making templates, cutting the components out on the scroll saw and doing some initial clean up of the parts. Once the glue has fully cured on the deadflat frame, I'll return to finish it up.

 

Quick question for anyone who might know - is it best to wait to start raising the frames until all are constructed? I can't think of any advantage or disadvantage in raising them one at a time or all at once, but I wanted to ask just in case I might be missing something.....

hamilton

 

 

[hamilton]

I'm just noticing something for the first time and kicking myself I didn't notice it before, since it is so obvious! You can see in the photos just posted that the keel assembly is short on the plan drawing - by maybe about 1/16"!! Half of me is tempted to simply attach a 1/16" thick strip of boxwood to this end and shape it to fit - though this will not look as good as it would if I just re-did the whole assembly......arghhh!!

hamilton

[druxey]

The piece shrank???

[dvm27]

I wouldn't sweat it. Nobody's going to notice 1/16" after the model is completed. As for raising them all at once or after completed there's really no right or wrong. On a full hull I usually install them in sections to get a feel if they are aligned more or less. Any minor inconsistencies can sometimes be cheated by adjusting the next frame. But on this cross section there is so little change in the half-breadth that it's probably not a factor.

[hamilton]

I live in Vancouver, so the humidity would argue for the wood expanding....if I were in Scottsdale, maybe it would get all the moisture sucked out of it....this leaves only one possibility - modeller error!!

 

I think I will take a minute or two and just add a 1/16" piece to the front and shape it to suit - not sure I'll be able to blend it very well but as you say Greg it's in a relatively unobtrusive spot.....framing is far more fun than I thought it would be!! But I've got to get my joinery down......

hamilton

[hamilton]

I've now constructed the first two frames - deadflat and deadflat 1. There is still a fair amount of cleaning up and refining to do, but for now I'm pretty happy with the results. The joints on deadflat 1 between the futtocks was pretty weak and I had to redo the chock to try to refine them, which was successful enough for the moment, but I really need to get a decent technique down for these joints so they are more secure....apart from "practice makes perfect" are there other things I should be doing to ensure better joints at the chocks?

 

In any case, there is still work to be done on both frames - I need to refine their profiles along the molded dimension, thin them on the molded dimension towards the toptimbers, file out notches for the sweep port sills and lintels on the aft face of deadflat 1 and add trunnels at the joints. Given the need to align the notches for the sweep ports, I will wait to raise deadflat 1 until frame 1-forward is complete, so I can mark these features out at the same time on both.

 

I also fixed the issue with the keel assembly noted above - I sliced off a short length of 1/16" boxwood from a thicker strip, fixed this to the end of the keel assembly and then shaped it with sanding blocks and files. Unfortunately I only have shots of the un-shaped extension attached to the assembly and not the finished piece - I'll see if I can show it more clearly in a future post.

 

In the meantime, here are some photos. Enjoy and bye for now

hamilton

 

[dvm27]

Well, practice does indeed make perfect. It's super important to make sure the ends of the futtocks are the same width and flat over their mating surface with no gaps between them. If you have a Byrnes disk sander this is easy. If not you'll need to get good with a super sharp chisel. I wouldn't use the printed pattern to make the chock as the joint may vary slightly from the pattern. My process is to glue the two futtocks together on top of the pattern and allow to dry. Then place an index card under the joint and trace out the actual chock shape using a mechanical clutch pencil sharpened to a super fine point. Don't worry about the inboard shape for now. Now transfer the card pattern to the properly oriented wood and cut out. The chock should now fit snugly into the joint. Then you can glue it in place. Finally, after dry, trim the inboard face.

 

If you are planning to build several wooden models in the future I can't stress enough how much the Byrnes disk sander (or Proxxon) will improve your work. It's an investment that pays off in accuracy and time saved over the years.

 

Staetler Mars Technical pencil 2mm (780) and Sharpener (502)

Edited May 11 by dvm27

[hamilton]

Thanks Greg for this clear explanation - your approach to the chocks makes a lot of sense - I have been using the drawings to make these to this point, so I'll try your technique. I've already got the mechanical 2mm lead holder and hard leads but maybe a new disc sander is in my future....Thanks again - this is very helpful!

hamilton

[Old Collingwood]

Your  doing some  great work  my friend  -  its  not  easy  trying  to achieve  scale  accuracy   and   convert that  into  a  working build.

 

OC.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

If I look to your frame I am afraid that you do not have enough meet, if you grind the whole structure. If I cut the pieces out, I look that I see always a little white paper on the outside of a frame. With this you have always enough room to equal small but normal tolerancies

Edited Saturday at 05:56 PM by AnobiumPunctatum