Mucking about in 3D - Again - Santos-Dumont Demoiselle

[iMustBeCrazy]

Here we go again.....

 

The Demoiselle came in three main variants, the 19, the 20 and the 21. I believe Santos-Dumont was only involved in the 19 and 20 while other third parties made versions of the 20 and 21.

Santos-Dumont made changes on the fly, the 20 started with a V8 but was refitted with a two cylinder horizontally opposed engine slightly more powerful than the 19.

 

Anyway, it's confusing. I'm drawing what I think was the latest 20 which I'm designating (unofficially) the 20d. It won't by any means be perfect but should be reasonable:

The main bit are mostly done, just everything else to do.

And I've started on the engine.

[oakheart]

Hi Craig

Believe it or not, there are crazy peeps who make and fly things just like this from my local airstrip ( Shobdon )

Close up they look like they are made from ali. tent poles and ripstock with a brush cutter engine bolted on.

Some even have cabins and windshields. I will stick to making my models 🙂

 

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

40 minutes ago, oakheart said:

Close up they look like they are made from ali. tent poles and ripstock with a brush cutter engine bolted on.

And still not as scary as a 1909 Demoiselle.

[iMustBeCrazy]

Some more progress on the engine today.

 

It should look like this (note, rear view):

 

It currently looks like this:

[iMustBeCrazy]

More detail on the engine:

[iMustBeCrazy]

Not much visible progress, I built the intake manifolds and piping (you can see one, rear right, in the second last photo.

And that's a real crankshaft:

I found some more photos of a 40hp Darracq, very close to the one used. I was wondering how they moved the Oil Tank and Pump to clear the bamboo longeron, now I know.

 

Edited April 10 by iMustBeCrazy

[iMustBeCrazy]

The progress is a little more visible this time, I've added a cam housing, cam shaft and cams, cam followers, a water pump and a magneto. I've also moved the oil tank to the side and done some stupid things we're not going to talk about.

 

 

Edited April 13 by iMustBeCrazy

[iMustBeCrazy]

A bit more, oil separator plugs and leads:

 

And a comparison with a real (later?) one:

[iMustBeCrazy]

Not much to show this time, just push rods and a bit of tidying up. 

I got distracted trying to draw a prop for it and that's proved to be problematic, I see a way forward but it's going to be a pain.

Still outstanding on the engine are a carburettor, oil lines, cooling system and extra flanges and bolts.

 

[oakheart]

Hi Craig

This just popped up on my radar, have you seen it?

 

 

Tim

 

[iMustBeCrazy]

9 hours ago, oakheart said:

This just popped up on my radar, have you seen it?

G'day Tim, I hadn't seen it before. I'm guessing 3/4 scale with about twice the hp Alberto had.

 

I've been playing with something else:

 

That's a 80hp Le Rhone 9c rotary (that means the whole engine spins around the crankshaft) that powered many WW1 aircraft.

 

Such as:

 

The Sopwith Scout (nicknamed the Pup) 1916. Or it will be when I finish.

 

But then I think I'll modify it to a Sopwith Dove, largely a post war Pup two seater. Or at least inspired by the Pup with three more years of development.

Eventually I'll make a 1/8th model of either a Pup or a Dove.

 

Meanwhile I'm learning more about CAD, including why those last two formers on the Pup above don't look solid (I had the same problem on the Lapwing drawing).

 

But the Prop is still kicking my backside.

 

[oakheart]

8 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

I'm guessing 3/4 scale

Hi Craig, they say it's 1:1
On viewing, I had missed the numbers on the tail only when I read the comments did I realise.

Loved the dummy pilot.

 

CAD is always a learning, I don't use it enough to keep what I learned last time, so no 'muscle memory'

 

Hope you are keeping warm out there...... brrr

 

Tim

[oakheart]

10 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

the Prop is still kicking my backside

 

Yes they are pretty complex shapes to do in CAD

 

Might be easier to just make one - 

 

 

really interesting setup.

 

Tim

Edited Monday at 09:04 AM by oakheart

[iMustBeCrazy]

2 hours ago, oakheart said:

always a learning

When you stop learning, you're dead.

 

2 hours ago, oakheart said:

Hope you are keeping warm out there...... brrr

Sun went down about an hour ago, it's now 10.7°C which is a little warmer than it's been at this time most nights recently.

It's either been a cold (for Melbourne) winter or I'm just feeling it more.

 

[iMustBeCrazy]

5 minutes ago, oakheart said:

Might be easier to just make one - 

A friend of Dad's had one of those, you still have to make the first one though.

[Lieste]

Scout was a 1915 predecessor to the 1916 Pup. They aren't the same airframes, and the most closely related was the 1 1/2 Strutter (of which the Pup was the diminutive offspring - to the annoyance of the Admiralty)

Pup is 8.3m span, Scout was 7.49m, length Pup 5.89m, Scout 6.3m.
Scout uses the 80 Hp Gnome monosoupape, while the Pup often uses the Le Rhone 9C 80Hp as one of it's engine options.

[iMustBeCrazy]

5 hours ago, Lieste said:

Scout was a 1915 predecessor to the 1916 Pup.

It's more confusing and goes further than just that.

 

1913 saw the 'Tabloid' which was sometimes known as the 'Scout'.

1914 saw the 'Sea Scout' for  the Schneider Trophy.

1915 saw the 'Two Seater Scout'.

1916 sees the Pup, officially the 'Scout' according to most books BUT as the original drawings just call it the '80hp le Rhone' I suspect the real official designation was the '80hp le Rhone Scout'.

 

It appears that it was only after service personnel started calling it the Pup that Sopwith actually started really naming their aircraft.