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Posted (edited)

I am currently drawing up plans for the Lapwing which should also cover:

 

Lapwing 1816

Fancy 1817

Kite ca1817

Racer ca1819

Sprightly ca1819

 

Nightingale 1827

Speedy 1828

Snipe 1828

 

Vigilant 1821

Swift 1821

Basilisk 1822

Bramble 1822

 

 

Edited by iMustBeCrazy

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  Moved from another thread:

4 hours ago, Bob Portsmouth said:

Hi Craig

Oh, where to start without hijacking the thread too much.

 

4 hours ago, Bob Portsmouth said:

Diligence 1818?

I think 1823, Vigilant was the lead ship in 1821 (I think).

 

4 hours ago, Bob Portsmouth said:

Speedy 1828

Yes, I have the plans and book but I think it's not quite right.

 

4 hours ago, Bob Portsmouth said:

And I haven't found any above deck details for Lapwing.

Try ZAZ6430 (Lapwing see ZAZ6425-6431)

 

And for Diligence note the companionway 'deckhouse' on ZAZ6347.

 

Anyway, it's still all new to me as I only started as a family history exercise (my great great grandfather was part of the crew when Lapwing sailed to Australia in 1850).

I may build a 1/24 PoF, unrigged but showing accommodation, or I may not. Might start with some bits and pieces in MDF first.  This is where I'm up to:677523172_Lapwing1in24.thumb.JPG.11a871dee9188f721c033dd562f8804c.JPG

 

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Bill Shoulder's plans for Speedy have it as clinker planked.  Did that apply to the whole class?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jaager said:

Bill Shoulder's plans for Speedy have it as clinker planked.  Did that apply to the whole class?

What little original information I have found does not indicate that any were clinker planked.

 

ZAZ6429  Has some alterations noted, dated 1818, with carvel planking pencilled in suggesting that Speedy launched in 1828 was very likely carvel planked.

 

But that's not proof.

 

EDIT: Just checked his book and he says:

"She is carvel built, and carries eight 6 pounder guns. Some readers may be aware that some of these cutters were clench built, although I have no evidence to show which method was used for 'Speedy', ---------"

 

 

And as you mention class, most references give it as Nightingale class, however depending on how you classify them I suggest that the above vessels form three classes as I grouped them above:

 

Lapwing (First of class)

 

Nightingale (some alteration to frames, but I'm not sure what)

 

Vigilant (First of an enlarged version of the Lapwing, about 6 feet longer, allowing for an extra pair of guns)

Edited by iMustBeCrazy
New info

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I pulled my copy and I don't see what lead me to place the Speedy in the clinker category.  There is not much more than what you quoted.  There is not much about outside planking at all, but the one cross section that has any planking looks like clinker to me.  I had thought that the demo model was clinker, but maybe I just saw what I was expecting to see.  

I saved 5 JPEGs of plans and a painting for Vigilant from the NMM web site, so it seems well documented.  The Smithsonian has several English cutter plans done by Merritt Edson.  It looks like he was planning a publication about cutters that ran aground for some reason.  It appears that  cutters were not much favored in North America.  I am guessing that schooners filled their role.

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21 minutes ago, Jaager said:

but the one cross section that has any planking looks like clinker to me

Many of the photos do, must be the lighting.

 

21 minutes ago, Jaager said:

It looks like he was planning a publication about cutters that ran aground for some reason.

The Lapwing ran aground at least twice, the outcome the last time wasn't so good. The Lapwing was on a Government mooring in Port Elliot South Australia , during a blow the harbour master had a Brig tied on astern of the Lapwing. The mooring failed and both ran aground. The Brig was saved.

 

22 minutes ago, Jaager said:

I am guessing that schooners filled their role.

Interestingly, it seems that the Nightingale was launched as a schooner.

 

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3 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

The Lapwing ran aground at least twice

That's funny!    I wonder if MAE was planning a series on the history of sailing cutters in the NRJ  or in a book.  It is too bad that it did not happen.

 

I have no experience with the waters around the British Isles or the English channel,  but over here the wind tends go from over the land and out to sea and the bottom is mostly sand.  The mountains get closer to the sea up around  Canada,  but it is a long way to big rocks down south.  Maybe the weather dictated the rig, since the guys who used these vessels could not afford to be sentimental about tradition.

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Posted (edited)

Lines from two different drawings (note the blue and black lines on the left):

864606263_Station14.JPG.2f1f93b3f2cf623668bda5c0236e35dc.JPG

 

Digital lofting (note, 4 is a typo for station 6 but I'll call it 4 for now): so line 4 is too far to the left, it should run through the two circles. This is indicated by the kink in the pink line. The difference is not much more than the thickness of a pencil line on the original 1/48 plans.

464649851_Station6lofting.JPG.ff58ed9c681e92d3bbcb4b3968b59f82.JPG

 

 

What I'm working from:

 

Shot0003.jpg.39be788e17dca3c0968d26721d828bdf.jpg

Edited by iMustBeCrazy

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6 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

  Moved from another thread:

Oh, where to start without hijacking the thread too much.

 

I think 1823, Vigilant was the lead ship in 1821 (I think).

 

Yes, I have the plans and book but I think it's not quite right.

 

Try ZAZ6430 (Lapwing see ZAZ6425-6431)

 

And for Diligence note the companionway 'deckhouse' on ZAZ6347.

 

 

 

Nice work Craig,

wish you much fun and success with the further buid.....

 

Nils

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, bruce d said:

Perhaps you already have these.

Thanks Bruce, not as such. The midship section appears later than Lapwing, ZAZ6428 is dated 1817 and shows the bloody great deck beam knee I posted above. The one you've posted seems to be 1818 or later.

 

The deck plan/s are better quality than I have but still seem to be 1817 or later (or perhaps 'as built').

 

Still great to have, they will make things a little easier.

 

EDIT: May have been a refit as she was still in service in 1843.

Edited by iMustBeCrazy

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12 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

EDIT: May have been a refit as she was still in service in 1843.

Top left hand corner of first drawing has a note '1843'

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4 minutes ago, bruce d said:

Top left hand corner of first drawing has a note '1843'

That was what I was referring to.

 

The midship frame drawing seems to be taken from ZAZ6429 (1818) inking in the pencilled alterations.

 

The deck plan has already given me some more clues, thanks again.

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1514692577_LAPWINGG5757.thumb.png.a5a55309ee1a8eb73597cb09557f60f5.png

This is also from Dansk Archive. None of the text entries are help[ful for these drawings, no dates or further details. I have seen the '1843' date on other drawings and it is possible that is a date when plans were transferred or re-named, not when the drawing was made.

HTH

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For the build I used 6507 as it was the clearest I could download. I didn't find any with a companionway deckhouse, just a hatchway? I checked with Peter Goodwin regarding the planking, Public Records have no surviving details he could find. He concluded that it probably depended of the shipyard and the usual method they were experienced in. So I went for clinker! I haven't heard previously of Bill Shoulders information?

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7 hours ago, bruce d said:

This is also from Dansk Archive. None of the text entries are help[ful for these drawings, no dates or further details.

Excellent! Brilliant! There's a 43 in the top left corner, probably when copies were made by or for the Danes. Was there a treaty at that time I wonder?

 

6 hours ago, Bob Portsmouth said:

For the build I used 6507 as it was the clearest I could download. I didn't find any with a companionway deckhouse, just a hatchway?

On ZAZ6507 you can just make it out as indicated, it's a bit clearer on ZAZ6377 which shows both a hatch and a deckhouse.

1029893004_ZAZ6507Diligencej0518_bc.jpg.f9582c6d91176eeaa2b2260e358d8e7e.jpg

1081256431_VigilantClass-Skylark160tonsbc.jpg.ce3025381b6a7d7979da2767c5a35489.jpg

 

6 hours ago, Bob Portsmouth said:

I haven't heard previously of Bill Shoulders information?

 

I'm guessing he based his model on the drawings Bruce has provided.

 

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2 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Was there a treaty at that time I wonder?

I feel like I should know but I don't. I'm pretty sure the Danes and the British kissed and made up formally not long after the fall of Napoleon but I can't name the treaty. There are a lot of English drawings in the Dansk archives and the indications are that the exchange of information was extensive. It is very telling that the Dansk collection includes several early 19th century studies of English ships based on models on display in England, I believe the phrase used was something like 'copied from Admiralty model on display'.

The Danes were poorly served by their alliance with Napoleon. Their involvement cut off England's supply of essential ship-building wood (for masts and yards) from the Baltic. The French were unable to help when the Royal Navy reacted.

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Posted (edited)

I'll be following this build. I am currently in the process of making a model of the Skylark. Seems however that you are going into a bit more detail than me. 

My build is titled "Mucking about in Fusion360" and is (at the time of me typing this comment) directly below your topic. 

 

Cheers. Point.

 

Edit: I just went back and saw that you had already commented on my post. I guess you already know about it then. lol

Edited by pointfiftytracer

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Lower deck done (I think). It was interesting ;) trying to work out the original Lapwing layout from under the revisions for Speedy, luckily ZAZ6347 for the Basilisk seems based on the original Lapwing.

 

Somehow the squeezed 10 passengers in on the trip to Australia and I have a copy of an advert for 'First Class passage' :o

 

 

Lapwing 1in24 Lower Deck.JPG

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Arrrrggggg!!!!

 

Three steps backwards, after drawing up the frames at station 2 I remembered ZAZ6425 has two sets of station lines, then I realised that the sheer plan is based on station lines that have no relationship to frames.

 

While this wouldn't matter for a PoB build I want these drawings to be able to be used for PoF. So I have to re-draw the station lines and sheer plan.

 

Of course I don't have a table of offsets, but fortunately there is a shortcut I can take:

 

By drawing a set of rectangles like the one in pink below, where points a and b are on the intersections of a station line and a reference line (in this case a water line) and point c touches the 45° degree line under the sheer plan, point d is the station line / water line intersection on the sheer plan. Unfortunately I don't have many reference lines on this drawing, basically just 4, so I have to base the shape of the 'frame' on those next to it.

 

 

Shot0001.jpg

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The passage may perhaps have been first class, but I doubt that the accommodation was!

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1 hour ago, druxey said:

The passage may perhaps have been first class, but I doubt that the accommodation was!

Unless you compare it to the crews.

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