HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class

[AON]

Yes I did.

Saved in two very different places.

[AON]

So I've completed the first template drawing and will be getting it printed out this week

 

 

I have labelled the pieces to help me remember the names.

 

I have also sketched the five waterlines at elevation.

 

This was done differently from the first go around.

The first time I had plotted it out all on one level, having sketched each section line as painstakingly measured from the Body Plan.

Then I compared the two by inspection from the top view... they were quite different.

 

This time I intend to use them directly in the shaping of the station templates.

I also relaxed my measuring... using my trusty triangular scale with 1/4" = 1'-0" scale on it

I can comfortably read to within a 1/2"

 

I am getting into the tough part now... how to plot the upper and lower breadth line in 3D (everything else has been 2D).

 

I won't bore anyone with the steps (as I am not quite sure of them myself yet)

But I hope this version will be simpler and quicker.

 

So far so good.

[AON]

I had some feed back on my layout... I chewed over the suggestions a bit and looked at some other plans and models. as recommended.

Of course most of what you want to see on models are covered up in the photos.
Images don't seem to ever show that one detail you want or when they do it disagrees with both what you did and what helpful people are suggesting.

In the end I made some changes to the pieces that comprise the bow assembly and the rising/dead wood and its connection forward and aft.

 

Thank you for the help.

 

EDIT NOTE: dwg removed and update posted 15 NOV 2015

Edited November 16, 2015 by AON

[AON]

Well I managed to get my Upper and Lower Breadth Lines drawn

 

I plotted them on the Breadth Plan (bottom 2d view) and then again at elevation on the Sheer Plan (2d side view) and finally projected them to a 3D line from those two views (the green lines)

 

One step closer to drawing the frames (again)

 

First I must draw the top timber lines.

Edited June 27, 2015 by AON

[AON]

Managed to get a good start at the top timber line 2D layouts

you can see both in the image below

yet to fine tune (extend) the side view (sheer) so they are presently construction line until done

 

 Since we will be having a wonderfully stormy weekend I suppose I might get it done tomorrow (???)

[druxey]

What better way to spend a bad weather day? Your drafting looks very good so far, Alan.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Really wonderful drawings, Alan.

 

I love the 3D views. Which software do you use for your drawings?

[AON]

Thank you Druxey

The new approach I've taken has also made quite an impact

 

Christian, the first go around was with SolidWorks.  This time I am using AutoDesk Inventor.  The programs are similar but different enough to give my brain a workout.

[AON]

Completed the 3D layout of the top timberline

Now I can begin to layout the frames at the station lines (again)

Edited June 28, 2015 by AON

[AON]

shaping the hull at the station lines

going much quicker than the first time

and the line work is much cleaner

 

It pays to work smarter... but learning to work smarter means you have to learn in the first place

 

So my computer crash was an opportunity after all.

[druxey]

Yes, second time around is always faster, and often better as well!

[AON]

Well I completed the hull shaping at each station line.

Have to complete the stern transom shaping.

 

I think I will draw the frames, and this time extrude between them (rather than lofting), then slice and dice into individual frames to make my templates... which was were I was before the crash.

 

Almost there.

 

and btw

 

Ju​ly the first.... Happy Canada Day, eh!

[Don9of11]

Excellent work Alan, it's always good to see how your progressing and your approach to solving the hull development.

[AON]

Thank you Don

presently having some issues appreciating how Inventor works with splines and mirroring

seems they may need to be constrained every which way !!!  as when mirroring things go wonky.

 

Presently I am very frustrated with this program... it is the learning curve

[Don9of11]

Alan, when did you switch to Inventor? I have heard good things about it from a guy I work with. He say's in many ways it's better than SolidWorks. I have to admit after working with SW 2015 for about 2 months now it has many of the same core issues it had 15 years ago, but there have been some nice features added. I know this has nothing to do with your model but it save me from asking whether you are using splines or not for laying off your hull sections.

[AON]

I started using Inventor after the crash and burn of 2015 (that is how I am referring to it)

 

Many moons ago at another company, when we were looking int switching to a 3D program we compared SW to Inventor and the result of that "test" was that a task was completed with SW by executing fewer steps than Inventor and that was perceived as time = $$$.

 

Then I worked at another firm for a year and a half and they use Inventor so I found out a few more things about the program.

I would have to agree with a present working associate that Inventor is the "workhorse", but somehow I still prefer SW for easy of use.

 

(and, not that you asked, but splines will be the death of me)

[druxey]

Does that mean you have some 'splinin' to do, Don?

[AON]

wasn't that Ricky's line to Lucy?

[Don9of11]

Alan, I was reading through the last few post and paying close attention to how you developed your hull station lines. You sketched out the water lines first and then it seems you matched the curves of the hull station to those points on the water line. Am I correct in that assessment?  Have you done a hull surface to see how smooth it is? I hope you doing well and you've just taken an extended brake.

[AON]

Good morning Don,

 

No, I haven't given up.

 

A number of things occurred to slow me down this summer.

First there was the warm inviting sunny days I hadn't seen for months.

Then extra work demanding more of my time.

Then I caught my finger on my table saw cutting stock to make a honey stick...it is healing and to my surprise the finger nail is growing back!

The end of my finger will almost look normal.

 

It has been an uphill battle with creating my templates, now using Autodesk Inventor.  My files were huge and going backwards to work on an earlier sketch caused crashes.

Then I learnt about dirty files and dumping the temp files to clean up.

I've just refined my process and starting over yet again (4th time) but not from the very beginning!

This time I honestly believe I will have it.

 

Hope to start reposting again soon.

I will also remake my keel and stern post assembly.

I know I can do a better job.

It is the learning curve that is killing me.

 

 

Alan

[AON]

Don

 

Inventor allows you to project 3D geometry from two 2D views.  I didn't see this option in my version of SolidWorks I was borrowing from the office.

 

I was able to project the 3D curvature of the waterline cutting down line, top of the floor timber and top timber lines by drawing them in the Breadth and Sheer views (plans).

I then created a end view (Body plan) plane on the station lines and at the locations in which the top timber line changes elevation.

I inserted points at the intersection of these lines with the plane, projected these points onto a sketch at the station line (at the plane) and then drew in the frame.

 

I did however come to the conclusion that I needed to simplify the dimensions. (something I believe Druxey was trying to make me aware of)

The end of the timber at the top of the rail is 5-1/2" moulded depth (athwartships).

at 1:64 this is 0.086" thick or just over 1/16" (about 2mm)

I don't think I can make these at this thickness so I increased it to 8" (1/8" or 3mm)

Still a challenge but a wee bit better to manage.

I also massaged the thickness at the breadth of the beam from 11.8" to 12"

 

I gave up on tweaking all the polylines with setting the 3 handles at every point once I realized there is a traditional autocad polyline option.

The task is difficult enough without creating extra challenges.

 

The first, second and third futtock moulded thickness are unchanged... but I believe they will be when I have wood to sand!

I'm an old draughtsman (draughtsperson to be politically correct) and it is taking me awhile to adjust and accept what I can and cannot do at 1:64 scale.

.... and I am still learning.

 

I am now learning to adjust my thinking of the timber spacing due to the gun port locations. (something else Druxey gentle nudged at)

When I project the cuts from below they are straight and play havoc with the templates at the gun ports.

I realise the timbers shift.

This means cutting from the side (sheer plan) which is tons more work to draw

I am not sure the effort is needed so long as I refer to the actual timber plan I have to do the shifts.

 

I've modelled stations 2 through G and started the template drawing for these today.

I had planed on cutting all the scarf joints in the timbers but now realising the scale, moulded thickness, my level of talent, who will see it... I'm moving towards simple butt end joints.  I may attempt scarf joints where I have break away views through the hull into the interior as you will see these joints.

I've also toyed with the idea of plexiglas timbers in these areas.

 

Alan

Edited October 28, 2015 by AON

[AON]

here is a sample of the beginning of my frame templates!

 

screen captures are a little grainy

when I finish the first set I'll post the PDF

Edited October 28, 2015 by AON

[druxey]

I see your dead flat is composed of thee singles: an odd number is always required to reverse the frame pair floors fore and aft.

[AON]

First set done

Here are the PDF sheets for the frame templates from 2 to G for your entertainment

Moving forward (literally towards the bow  )

 

EDIT NOTE:

removed PDF's will post updates/corrections shortly

15 NOV 2015

Edited November 16, 2015 by AON

[druxey]

Small point: Those chocked joints just above the port sills (C fwd and G fwd, for instance) look unlikely.

[AON]

They are clearly indicated on the framing drawing... but I will make a note!

(there is also one at 2-Aft)

 

Thank you for keeping an eye on me.

[RMC]

Hi Alan

 

I have finally come across your build. Wonderful work - far too difficult for me.

 

Regards

Bob (rmc)

[druxey]

If there are chocked joints just above the port sills, that would be most unusual.

 

P. S. I just looked at the disposition of framing for Elephant: those top timbers are adjacent to, not above the ports. I misread your frame drawing. My apology! However, I read these on the DOF as scarfed, not chocked, joints. They are denoted by two lines across the frame rather than the single line seen at the chocked joints. Often there is an 'X' added to distinguish these further.

Edited October 30, 2015 by druxey

[AON]

Good morning again Druxey!

 

The frame drawing shows one single line.

I am at work now... If I have a copy here I'll take a snap and post shortly otherwise it'll be later tonight!

 

 

 

Bob,

It has been very difficult and frustrating so far!

Alan

[AON]

I happened to have an electronic copy it here.

Screen capture of the offending joints below.

 

My B&W printed copy does not show the hidden lines (located extra close to the deck lines) clearly.

But (of course) you are correct!

 

I'll need to create an ECN and Work Request to have the drawing revised.

(after all I am at work)

speaking of which I'd better get back at 'er!

 

Thank you

Alan